2nd Provisional Licence holders

Morpheus

OK!

whats the story if you hold your second provisional licence.

basically:
CAN U DRIVE UNACCOMPANIED WITH L PLATES DISPLAYED WHILE HOLDING A 2nd PROVISIONAL LICENCE OR NOT?????

WHERE IS THIS OFFICIALLY PUBLISHED TO MAKE ALL 2nd licenced PROVISIONAL DIRVERS AWARE???

Everyone I ask has a different notion about it, does ANYONE here know for definite whether or not I can drive if i hold a second provisional licence and have L plates displayed in my window??

i am waiting to sit my test hopefully in the next few weeks, but need my car for work.

I need to know ASAP

cheers.
:rolleyes:

sceptre

Originally posted by Morphéus
basically:
CAN U DRIVE UNACCOMPANIED WITH L PLATES DISPLAYED WHILE HOLDING A 2nd PROVISIONAL LICENCE OR NOT?????

WHERE IS THIS OFFICIALLY PUBLISHED TO MAKE ALL 2nd licenced PROVISIONAL DIRVERS AWARE???

(first question)
Yes - nothing has changed (yet:)) to change the position that you as a driver on a second provisional can drive unaccompanied (while of course displaying your big Ls)

Drive away, have some fun.

(second question)
Road Traffic Act 1963 I'd expect. Nothing has changed for you.

I assume you're asking this question because people have told you that you can't. If this is the case and you want something to wave in their faces while telling them to **** off, drop another post here and someone sill find the provisions in the particular Act.

lynchie

I heard that Seamus Brennan had put forward an ammendment to the Road Traffic Act on the 30th Dec. If this is the case there should be a copy of it available from the Oireachtas website. Ive had a look meself but I cant find nothing about it at all. Can anybody confirm that the ammendment bill was passed and enacted??

seamus

Originally posted by lynchie
I heard that Seamus Brennan had put forward an ammendment to the Road Traffic Act on the 30th Dec. If this is the case there should be a copy of it available from the Oireachtas website. Ive had a look meself but I cant find nothing about it at all. Can anybody confirm that the ammendment bill was passed and enacted??

I'm looking for something relevant now. I think the original Road Traffic Act was 1961 (getting old sceptre? ), but there's nothing in that about Prov's having to be accompanied........

[EDIT:

OK, I've found some relevant bits and pieces:

From the Road Traffic Act, 1994, Sec. 25:
"40.—(1) ( a ) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying pursuant to regulations under this Act the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, the production to him of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the said person to drive the vehicle, and if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he shall be guilty of an offence.

The Government website is only complete up until 2001, when the commencement order for this Section hadn't been given yet, so this is probably what Mr. Brennan gave to the Government on the 30th December.

And I can't find anything else about provisionals driving accompanied.

Morpheus

thanks tonnes,

i can now happily drive to my local garage and grab new L's, the others blew off my car a long time ago....

honest they did...

peeled straight off the inside of the windscreen and blew out through the rolled down door windows one warm night during me and my cars first summer together...

sceptre

Originally posted by seamus
I'm looking for something relevant now. I think the original Road Traffic Act was 1961 (getting old sceptre? ), but there's nothing in that about Prov's having to be accompanied........

Oops, 1961, yeah

(14 years before I was born - I'm still getting old nonetheless)

Can't find anything about provisionals having to be accompanied (let alone not accompanied) in the 61 Act (nor in the acts from (even) 1933, 1968, 1994, 1995, 2002 or the three insignificant amendment acts)

Must be a statutory instrument then.

(this from the 1961 Act is interesting though)

seamus

Originally posted by sceptre
(this from the 1961 Act is interesting though)

( a ) where a driver has at least nine consecutive hours for rest in a period of twenty-four hours beginning at the commencement of a period of driving, the period of at least nine consecutive hours shall be reckoned as a period of ten consecutive hours if the driver has at least twelve consecutive hours for rest in the twenty-four hours next after the expiration of the above-mentioned period of twenty-four hours;

LMAO - Get yer tongue around that!

I found an S.I. from 1999 relating to 2nd provs not needing accompaniment, then my computer went really slow and I got pissed off, so I didn't bother searching more. Chances are, this new legislation will be something Seamus will have passed during the next year, so everyone will know all about it.

seamus

Because I'm a nice guy:

From S.I. No. 352/1999: ROAD TRAFFIC (LICENSING OF DRIVERS) REGULATIONS, 1999, PART III, Sec.6
(b) (iv) a person provisionally licensed to drive vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED shall not drive such a vehicle unless he or she is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person,
(c) (iii) The condition at paragraph (b) (iv) of this sub-article shall not apply to the driving of a vehicle in category B by a person to whom a provisional licence in respect of vehicles in class C under the revoked regulations was granted prior to 12 August, 1985 or to a person who is driving a vehicle in category B during the period of validity of a second provisional licence granted to him or her in respect of such vehicles.

So there you go; Anyone who says different, tell them to check out the above S.I., and they'll prolly just give in

My head hurts now. How anyone can choose to study law in college is beyond me

sceptre

This is a useful leaflet/booklet done by the DoT explaining lots of things to do with provisional licences

This section from the Road Traffic (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations, 1964 (SI no29/1964) explains that a qualified person is required to accompany a driver on a provisional licence (and be under the supervision of that person, putting pay to S Brennan's comment that the qualified person could eb having sex in the back of the car, but how do you prove it:D)


And here's what you're looking for:
Road Traffic (Licensing of Drivers) Amendment (no2) Regulations, 1995 (SI no254/1985) :

(iv) a person to whom a provisional licence to drive vehicles of Class C is granted for the first time on or after the 12th day of August, 1985 shall not drive such a vehicle unless he is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person other than during the period of validity of a second such provisional licence granted to him

From the same SI (this one was amended like crazy between 1979 & 1985), L-Plates:

(ii) a person provisionally licensed to drive vehicles of Class C, Class D, Class F or Class H shall not drive such a vehicle unless there are displayed on the vehicle rectangular plates or signs bearing the letter "L" not less than fifteen centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions to the front and rear of the vehicle

There's a 1999 SI (same name just tag a 1999 at the end (SI352/1999) that says the same thing in section 20, ss5, sss(c)(iii):

(iii) The condition at paragraph (b) (iv) of this sub-article shall not apply to the driving of a vehicle in category B by a person to whom a provisional licence in respect of vehicles in class C under the revoked regulations was granted prior to 12 August, 1985 or to a person who is driving a vehicle in category B during the period of validity of a second provisional licence granted to him or her in respect of such vehicles.

Not as easy to read as the 1985 regulations as you have to refer to

(iv) a person provisionally licensed to drive vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED shall not drive such a vehicle unless he or she is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person,

back up the page to understand it. Says the same thing as the 1985 regulations (and obviously the 1999 SI is the legal one)



In other words: yeah, you can drive unaccompanied while on provisional number 2 (but not 1, 3 or any later ones) if you're a good boy and display your L-plates.

That Brennan chap can change all this of course with a simple statutory instrument - al he has to do is notify the Dail some morning and give them a date for the New World (er, Irish) Order. No debate necessary. If this does happen, you'll hear fanfares and complaints - you won't be able to miss them. All that's happened so far is that they're actually enforcing laws that have been there for some time. Making a change like this would annoy enough voters that they would have to explain why fairly loudly (and probably give quite a bit of notice)

(edit: I see seamus (not me, not Brennan, "seamus seamus:D) won the "who's going to find it first comp. Kudos)

Originally posted by seamus
My head hurts now. How anyone can choose to study law in college is beyond me

Ex-(bad)law student heartily agrees.

Krusty_Clown

sceptre: In other words: yeah, you can drive unaccompanied while on provisional number 2 (but not 1, 3 or any later ones) if you're a good boy and display your L-plates.

Except of course on motorways...[Where your L-Plates will now stick-out like sore thumbs - to the boys in Blue]

Paulg

Did anyone hear this morning that the Taoiseach only has a provisional licence...

Also, when will the law be enforced that provisional driver can't drive on the motorways?

seamus

Heh, that was just a nasty rumour. Bertie has passed his test, but his full licence is out of date. Of course, he never has to drive himself anywhere, so.......:)

L-drivers aren't allowed on the motorway and never have been. If the Gardai see an L-plate on the motorway, they'll pull them over (if they can be bothered). Of course, it's much harder to catch an L-driver if he has no L-plates up........

Brings to mind a funny story of a friend of mine. Driving along the motorway, he casually tosses a cig butt out his window, striking the window of the garda car behind him, which he somehow failed to notice. Gardai pull him over, to discover he's a learner on his frist provisional. Result: Court appearance for littering, £50 fine for driving unaccompanied, £50 fine for driving on the motorway, £50 fine for driving without L-plates.

Oh lord, how we laughed

Spunog UIE

thats always funny

The_Conductor

I heard a rumour that we are the only country in the EU with statutory recognition of provisional licences, and the current crackdown is a result of directives on the matter. All EU licences are to be standardised in Aug/Sept of this year into a credit card sized licence, which will also contain a biometric chip. Several countries (incl. the UK, France and Germany) have indicated that they intend to use this as an official national identity card, and it will be acceptable for identification purposes for movement purposes by EU nationals between Schengen agreement states.
Ireland is to phase out the provisional licence altogether (we have a derrogation at present) by 2008.
Hopefully we will have gotten our act together vis-a-vis public transport by then........