When no news is very good news

Victor

Has the penalty points system changed your driving?

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When no news is very good news
Helen Bruce and Paul Melia

From: The Irish Independent
Monday, 9th December, 2002

NO deaths were reported on the roads were this weekend, making it the first weekend without fatalities in almost four years.

The last road death occured on Tuesday, and the ensuing days have seen an almost unprecedented period of road safety despite the busy pre-Christmas traffic.

The National Safety Council attributed the falling death rate to the success of the new penalty points system, which has seen a 50pc drop in fatal crashes since its introduction in October.

Council spokesman Brian Farrell said: "It's been a long time since I remember a weekend without any fatalities, and it means there will be more people sitting round the table at Christmas with their families.

"The penalty point system is obviously having an impact, as we believe are the new road safety advertisements. There is a high level of awareness. First we had to change people's attitudes, now we are changing their behaviour."

There have been 361 people killed on the roads this year, and if the current downward trend continues 2002 looks set to have the lowest death rate since 1986's 387.

mike65

I heard that on the radio this morning, if the sudden drop in deaths continues so we can say for certain its not a freaky occurence then the government(s) of the last 10 years or so should be thoroughly ashamed (ha!).

For the poll, my driving has'nt altered a jott, my days of speeding are well over and my overall driving standard has improved no end since I started driving a van for a living (practice makes perfect in my case).


Mike.

Chimaera

I wonder has the penalty points system really made that much of a difference though.

I recently read a report on speed limit enforcement in the UK, and the point was made that while speeding convistions have shot up in the last 10 years there, the number of casualties on the roads has actually risen slightly, which suggests that the problem of road deaths/injuries isn't simply a result of speeding.

There has been a flall in the number of deaths alright, but that's largely due to improvements in safety technology.

ando

well since the penalty system came in I can honestly say I'm really trying. Its just the penalty points scare the crap out of me, cause I need to drive quite a lot to make a living.

John2002

Originally posted by Chimaera
I recently read a report on speed limit enforcement in the UK, and the point was made that while speeding convistions have shot up in the last 10 years there, the number of casualties on the roads has actually risen slightly, which suggests that the problem of road deaths/injuries isn't simply a result of speeding.

No doubt this is because there has been such an increase in cars on the roads in the last 10 years.


To be honest the points system hasn't affected my driving in the slightest and I haven't noticed more police on the roads (in the Limerick area anyway.)

leeroybrown

I wish it had affected my driving, but I've got no insurance in any car ATM and it looks like it's going to stay that way. (Doh!)

As for the improved statistics, it's great to see less road deaths but if the initial shock of having the points system isn't continued the figures will probably raise again.

paddymee

You can't take a sample of 6 weeks and say that the problem is solved.

People may have changed their habits but with a few weeks sample it could be a statistical blimp.

In England they played this game too with the Gatsos. They claimed that the first year caused a decrease in deaths from the previous year. However the next year the deaths increased to the norm and they said not to worry about the stats.

Basically the year before the introduction of Gatsos had been above average, so the next year was due to fall.

So I laugh when the reporters breathlessly rant about the points having an effect after after a few weeks. They either a child like comprehension of statistics or think the public do. I reckon it's the latter and they are probably correct.

On a side note. I wonder what percentage of crashes happen after midnight on a weekend. From reading the papers it seems pretty large. Wonder will drunk drivers worry about their points?

Paddy

Victor

Originally posted by paddymee
On a side note. I wonder what percentage of crashes happen after midnight on a weekend. From reading the papers it seems pretty large. Wonder will drunk drivers worry about their points?

40% of fatal accidents occur on Saturday and Sunday (29% of the week, but with fewer road users (but on longer journeys))

29% of fatal accidents occur between 9pm and 3am (25% of the day, but with much fewer road users)

(Source: Road Accident Facts Ireland 2000 (NRA)) www.nra.ie

ando

I wonder if the insurance companies will take note of the decrease in deaths on the roads ????

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

DivX

From what i've seen on the roads (in cork) is that drivers are alot more aware of the speed limits, the extra threat of points on the licence is definatly a deterant.

Has lead to abit more awareness of road safety, but i see alot of motorists returning to old bad habits, give it till after christmas to judge what overall effects the points have on ppl.

Also when the extra points come into effect, we'll see what effect this will have, can only help made the roads a bit safer.

People will forget and things will probably return to the bad old days, just like when the new alcohol limits came into effect afew years ago, now i see even more cars outside pubs over the weekend, can't all be drinking minerals..... Almost as many cars outside as ppl inside the pubs (rural areas).

sceptre

I noticed that day the points were officially introduced that everyone seemed to be making that little special effort. Actually, I lie - people seemed to be going very much under the speed limit, probably in fear of their lives that some cop would jump up in their back seats and give them a ticket while stapling points to their head.

After a few days, things seemed to be pretty much business as usual, at least around town (I haven't made any trips away from Limerick since the points came in so I've no idea of people are behaving on the big roads)

Like John, I've not noticed any extra police presence (actually any police presence at all - they all seem to be patrolling the streets on foor at night (more so than before, not necessarily a bad thing) on the roads in and around Limerick.

I'd agree with DivX - people will realise that nothing has changed unless they know someone who'd received a few points.

OT:
(you make a good point about the number of cars outside pubs - in the city centre I've noticed a few obviously drunk people getting into their cars - not advisable to do outside my front door as I've a good view from the third floor and the cops usually come pretty quickly when I see Mr Idiot turning the engine and feel like phoning them (watching the men/women in blue speeding after a drunk idiot speeding thw wrong way up Roches Street (one way, three lanes) is quite interesting late on a Saturday night)).

For those that might be a little peeved at my distaste for drunk drivers, we've all at least occasionally done silly things in cars (unintentional or otherwise) - drunk driving is about the stupidest thing that anyone can do and I'd feel guilty if I failed to report it. We're not talking about people a tiny bit over the limit here - last week @ 4am some idiot took half an hour to get his car moving after he started it and hung his head out the window while driving on the wrong side of the road:rolleyes:.)

Chimaera

I had reason to drive from Limerick to Galway on the day the points system came into force, and in 70-odd miles of driving, I came across one speed trap - nuff said really

That said, people were definitely making an effort to stay below the speed limit that evening. And in general, more people seem to be staying below the limit on major roads.

But on minor roads, I don't think much has changed - around where I live (in the country about 8miles from Limerick), the number of speed restricted sections of road has jumped quite a bit in the last month, but not many people are observing them because there has been no attempt by the Gardaí to enforce them.

As long as limits are not enforced, people won't bother to slow down.

I've yet to see any late night drink driving checkpoints around Limerick in the run-up to Christmas either - so much for the Christmas crackdown :rolleyes:

Mr E

There was a checkpoint on O'Connell Avenue on Friday night at 11:30pm. They were checking tax etc., but they made everyone wind down their windows - if they smelt any alcohol or if I'd looked any way wasted, I'd have been pulled aside.

- Dave.

Our man in Havana

I have found that people are driving extremley slowly. Its like driving miss daisy out there.

There is a lot of 70mph driving and sudden hard breaking for 30mph zones. This only worsens the situation.

mike65

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond

There is a lot of 70mph driving and sudden hard breaking for 30mph zones. This only worsens the situation.

Yeah I hate that, but the idiots who decide what signs go where can take alot of the blame, whats wrong with intermediate speed
signs? you know 70 - 60 - 50 - 40 - 30 so that everyone has the chance to scub speed in a drama free fashion as they're reminded of whats comming.

Mike.

ando

i heard that the devices that detect speed traps are legal to have, but not use? Is that true? I was thinking of getting one from the Uk

MarkR

Here you go. Knew I saw it somewhere...

sceptre

Originally posted by Chimaera
I had reason to drive from Limerick to Galway on the day the points system came into force, and in 70-odd miles of driving, I came across one speed trap - nuff said really

If that was in Crusheen, the local police pretty much live on that bridge as you take a sharp right into the village.

Victor

Statistics

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/nroadstats.html

Graph attached (December is a guess)

mike65

6 ppl killed this weekend so already speculation that the penalty points scare is wearing off but I dont think thats the case, bad weekends will always be with us. Pat Kenny had a good discussion on his programme today about road saftey. The guy he was talking with, said in Queensland, pop 3.7 million, they do over 2 million random breath tests a year, we do about 13,000! Says it all really.

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/lifesaver.html
interesting stats, more injuries but fewer deaths.

Mike.

Victor

Originally posted by mike65
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/lifesaver.html
interesting stats, more injuries but fewer deaths.

:rolleyes: 3 year old stats. At least with deaths, the figures were updated to 9am this morning. May be a factor of compensation culture, directly or indirectly, together with more people and vehicvles on the roads.

Chimaera

interesting stats, more injuries but fewer deaths.

Not really when you consider the huge advances that have been made in occupant safety in cars over the last 15 years. A 40mph crash in 1987 would probably have left the occupants dead or very seriously injured, yet now it is possible to walk away from a similar accident with minor cuts and bruises.

Another point to consider here is the huge increase in the number of cars on our roads in the last 5 years. I don't have exact figures, but I would think it is safe to assume that there are many more cars on our roads now than in 1997, and I think it would be most interesting to see statistics for road deaths as a percentage of the number of cars on the road over the last 15 years.

Victor

Originally posted by Chimaera
Not really when you consider the huge advances that have been made in occupant safety in cars over the last 15 years. A 40mph crash in 1987 would probably have left the occupants dead or very seriously injured, yet now it is possible to walk away from a similar accident with minor cuts and bruises.

I'm not sure if the improvement has been that much (I would however agree if you said 1977). And a 25mph crash is not a pleasant experience (even with crumple zones, headrests, seatbelts and cushioned surfaces), never mind 40mph.

Originally posted by Chimaera
Another point to consider here is the huge increase in the number of cars on our roads in the last 5 years.

These stats are 3 years old.

Originally posted by Chimaera
I don't have exact figures, but I would think it is safe to assume that there are many more cars on our roads now than in 1997, and I think it would be most interesting to see statistics for road deaths as a percentage of the number of cars on the road over the last 15 years.

But haven't there been wonderful improvements in safety! And safer roads! And stricter enforcement.

Looking at a graph of this, it looks like there was some change in the way they compiled stats in 1995 or so.