Esat DSL 256kbps question

Hannibal_12

I realise this has been discussed at length before but I am posting this in the hope I get the latest information. When exactly is this coming out? I have heard before christmas but since its now rapidy approaching said time I was wondering if there had been any specific info given.
Are they only doing specific exchanges and if so does that mean I am stuck with the great RAT.
Regards.

patrickmooney

.

tribble

That's odd...

No replies...

Does anyone on this board actually know for certain that this is even happening?

I see lots of hot air but no hard facts...

b

vinnyfitz

I think the honourable patrick mooney summarised the current state of play pretty accurately.

Every time I check with ESAT they say "we'll have details next week"

Scottish

I spoke to a sales guy in Esat regarding business DSL for my company. He said that it would be "after xmas" that the consumer product would be launched

zynaps

Couldn't agree more with patrick.

*shakes hands*

.

.

zynaps

tribble

This is not looking hopeful...

Calibos

Originally posted by Scottish
I spoke to a sales guy in Esat regarding business DSL for my company. He said that it would be "after xmas" that the consumer product would be launched

I know its been discussed already but I hope to jaysus that this 'consumer product' is just a stop gap measure for the short-term until eircom are forced to cop on with their wholesale pricing. Then hopefully we'll get the real €40-50/month 512k real 'consumer product' that the rest of the civilised world enjoys (and some of the uncivilised as well!:D )

acid

eircom's wholesale price is irrelevant to esat - they have their own equipment in the exchanges (part-funded by government). they do pay a "co-location fee" for the privelege.

esat can offer their dsl for any price they like.

Calibos

Your right about the wholesale price having nothing to do with Esat. Thats whats putting off any actual ISP from launching a broadband package. What I meant was the actual 'co-location fee' or what-ever its called. Dahamsta or Dustaz can provide the correct term. The actual cost of renting the space for the equipment in the exchange charged by Eircom. Apparently its the most expensive anywhere. The only reason they were able or prepared to offer adsl at all was because they were being part subsidised by the government so they actually can't charge anything they like.

topgold

EsatBT installed home DSL service into 6 Upper Garringreen (Kilkenny) last week. They have saturated Thurles with pamphlets describing how to sign up for installations that occur within 21 days of requesting the service.

Although the DSL line goes into a home, it's a business account running around €90 a month for 512k down, 256 upstream.

MarVeL

I know I'm being overly optimistic and readig this the wrong way but do you mean EsatBT have installed the 256k "residential" package (at €60 or whatever they are charging) or the 512k "business" package at €100+

Just asking for clarification as if it's the former it's the first I've heard of an actual install. In fact it's the first time I've seeen the offer confirmed as actually existing.

eth0_

Originally posted by topgold
EsatBT installed home DSL service into 6 Upper Garringreen (Kilkenny) last week. They have saturated Thurles with pamphlets describing how to sign up for installations that occur within 21 days of requesting the service.

No they haven't. The product doesn't even technically exist yet, it's not going to launch till around January so whoever told you they have the 256k residential DSL was lying to you...

shinzon

When i Rang esatbt about getting the sorry 108 euro a month Business package i asked them about the 256k home connection

The rep told me that it will be within the next 4 months of next year that it will be launched, so all this poppycock about it being already available is bull****

TRI

by the way has anyone thought about the possibility that theyll ask for the money up front as in quarterly as they did with the business connection

eth0_

Originally posted by triacus98
all this poppycock about it being already available is bull****

by the way has anyone thought about the possibility that theyll ask for the money up front as in quarterly as they did with the business connection

I'd guesstimate February....it's not been officially launched so anyone who says they've signed up for it is talking through their....

And yeah, billing quarterly in advance.

shinzon

As it says will esat change that to monthly, cause 240 quid every 4 months is a lot of money, I know that you be paying that anyhow, it just sounds better if its 60 + vat a month lol

TRI

eth0_

Uh....quarterly is every 3 months...so it'd be around €180 every three months....I wouldn't say they'd change it to monthly, probably because it costs them money to change your service from Eircom to Esat (I think they pay eircom a fee), they don't want people signing up and then cancelling their service after a month or two.

Come on, it's not that much! How much is your phone bill normally! I know mine is a lot more than €180!

PiE

Originally posted by eth0_
Come on, it's not that much! How much is your phone bill normally! I know mine is a lot more than €180!

This is what annoys me. It is a bloody lot for a barely broadband 256k connection.

The fact that people are already thinking this is a good deal does not bode well for the future.

topgold

I post a lot of my blog stuff using a Nokia D211 card on my IBM TransNote. The Nokia card grabs a WiFi signal from Daren Ince's Wireless Net Router which is connected to EastBT DSL at his 6 Upper Garringreen home. We did the numbers, comparing my EUR 220 monthly eircom bill to his EsatBT rate table and it looks like I'll be the second person installing home DSL in my estate. I'm located 2.5 miles from the Kilkenny digital exchange, so this is good news to discover that new homes in Kilkenny often have been wired in a way to accommodate the shortest throw to the phone network. In my case, it means my phone and electrical power come off the back of the train station, one of the most recent additions to the Kilkenny grid.

Bernie
Wireless Information Network Kilkenny

eth0_

Originally posted by PiE
This is what annoys me. It is a bloody lot for a barely broadband 256k connection.

The fact that people are already thinking this is a good deal does not bode well for the future.

I think this is a little off topic, don't you? He wasn't complaining about the pricing, he was complaining about having to pay 3 months again.

Ireland is such a tiny country, its OBVIOUSLY going to cost more for broadband here than in Britain or France etc.

I'm sure as more companies offer DSL it's going to encourage price drops. I think UTV are trying to offer the service down here.

But as I said, this is completely off topic :P

SkepticOne

Originally posted by topgold
I post a lot of my blog stuff using a Nokia D211 card on my IBM TransNote. The Nokia card grabs a WiFi signal from Daren Ince's Wireless Net Router which is connected to EastBT DSL at his 6 Upper Garringreen home.

Is he using the > EUR 100 'business' service from his residence or is he paying EUR 60 for a 256k service? Also, what's the story with Chorus' cable modem based 'cablenet' service which I believe is operating in Kilkenny?

topgold

I got some clarification. I didn't cop on that he was setting up a business connection. But I should've known because he told me there was no cap to his data transfers and there was no limit to the number of people sharing his connection.

Chorus has MMDS in my housing estate. Daren was told that because of the lack of Chorus cable, EastBT were able to cable the home DSL service for him.

Bernie
Wireless Information Network Kilkenny

PiE

Originally posted by eth0_
Ireland is such a tiny country, its OBVIOUSLY going to cost more for broadband here than in Britain or France etc.

Argh!

Hannibal_12

Originally posted by PiE
This is what annoys me. It is a bloody lot for a barely broadband 256k connection.

The fact that people are already thinking this is a good deal does not bode well for the future.

It's not a good deal for other proper developed countries but for Ireland its the best we are going to get for the moment. I have come to accept that things dont work the same here, in the almighty e-tub, as they do in the rest of the world. My concern is that, as you say, people will become accustomed to paying €60 a month for a 256kbps service and this will become the new status quo. If this does occur Ireland will once again be firmly behind the rest of the world a position it seems to occupy quite alot.
I commend ESAT for attempting to find ways around the great RAT's horrendous pricing structure and will no doubt use the service simply because, while I'm still here, I have no choice.

sceptre

Originally posted by eth0_
Ireland is such a tiny country, its OBVIOUSLY going to cost more for broadband here than in Britain or France etc.

With respect, eth0, that's just the line of rubbish that our elected representatives fall for.

We only have to look at (off the top of my head) Iceland or the Baltic states to see that it's not the case.

If there's a population issue, it's one of density rather than total population. Again, Iceland is a perfect example to at least cast doubt on this assertation. Lack of population density certainly doesn't account for lack of availability and high prices in Dublin. The limited range of (A)DSL means that people genuinely in remote areas will probably never be reached by the service and hence won't be adding anything to the actual costs of getting DSL into the country.

It's a red herring.

PiE

Sceptre translated my previous "Argh!" with that post^ :]

Originally posted by Hannibal_12
I commend ESAT for attempting to find ways around the great RAT's horrendous pricing structure and will no doubt use the service simply because, while I'm still here, I have no choice.

But they're not paying eircom for their DSL product. All they pay is the rent for the space in the exchange which, while probably grossly high, can't be that much.

They're choosing to charge the extortionate price on their own, why should they be commended for that?

[If anyone wants to correct me here, feel free, but this is what I have come to believe]

shinzon

I was only complaining about having to pay every 3 months at 180, itd just be easier if esat redrew their strategy for home dsl and actually charged it at a monthly rate, i know its the same bloody thing as paying 180 evey 3 months (TYPO ON THE 4 MONTH THING THERE LOL), but a lot more people could gather together 60 euro a month rather than 180 every 3

Peace out

TRI

as for my phone bill its never more than 45 quid

Hannibal_12

Originally posted by PiE
Sceptre translated my previous "Argh!" with that post^ :]



But they're not paying eircom for their DSL product. All they pay is the rent for the space in the exchange which, while probably grossly high, can't be that much.

They're choosing to charge the extortionate price on their own, why should they be commended for that?

[If anyone wants to correct me here, feel free, but this is what I have come to believe]

Really?. I do know that the co location fee (or something) that ESAT pay is one of the highest going but I was under the impression that the wholesale rate for DSL ,as set by the RAT, was extremely high and thus had a knock on effect for any retail pricing.

eth0_

Originally posted by sceptre
With respect, eth0, that's just the line of rubbish that our elected representatives fall for.

We only have to look at (off the top of my head) Iceland or the Baltic states to see that it's not the case.

If there's a population issue, it's one of density rather than total population. Again, Iceland is a perfect example to at least cast doubt on this assertation..

REALLY? Then how do you explain this:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,s2082044,00.html

"Siminn could certainly teach BT a lesson about ADSL. It has had a service since 1999 and, while it is expensive (around £36 a month for a 512mbps connection, plus a monthly connectivity fee of £56) Siminn says it has had a good response to the service."

So that's.....€144.21 per month for DSL in Iceland... as opposed to €108 from Esat.

sceptre

Originally posted by eth0_
REALLY? Then how do you explain this:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,s2082044,00.html

"Siminn could certainly teach BT a lesson about ADSL. It has had a service since 1999 and, while it is expensive (around £36 a month for a 512mbps connection, plus a monthly connectivity fee of £56) Siminn says it has had a good response to the service."

So that's.....€144.21 per month for DSL in Iceland... as opposed to €108 from Esat.

I see you've changed your original post (fair enough)

How do I explain it? Easily. Your (and ZDNet's) figures are wrong:

http://www.siminn.is/control/index?pid=10290

512/256 - 3500 ISK pm = 41.0390 EUR pm at current exchange rates (€1 = 85.2847 ISK)

They've kept prices constant throughout 2002. They also have 5.3 DSL lines per 100 people so far (12,000 subscribers). That's without LLU even - Siminn has complete control over the local loop still so there's no (proper) competition whatever - TAL are in the same boat as UTV. The connection charge isn't recurring btw.

Meanwhile the article you posted mentions the low price of local calls and flatrate services. Siminn's basic phone service is all ISDN as well.

Still doesn't address my basic point (I was only using Iceland as an example, I could add in other countries with relatively dispersed populations instead) - DSL will only be available to people within about 3km of the exchange. All current installations are in urban areas, hence the relatively dispersed nature of the Irish population doesn't make that much of a difference. In the UK, if there isn't demand, an exchange won't be upgraded. If there's no (real) demand, there's no point in upgrading an exchange in the short term here. If there is demand tantamount to making the service viable (the same amount (not percentage) of interest as, say, on a UK exchange, making it just as viable as in the UK at the same price point), the amount of actual people living in the area doesn't matter. This was the kernel of my post above, it's the point I was making.

SkepticOne

"That's without LLU even - Siminn has complete control over the local loop still so there's no (proper) competition whatever - TAL are in the same boat as UTV. The connection charge isn't recurring btw."

I believe they have cable modem services in Iceland. This would provide major competion forcing the incumbent to provide ADSL services that reflect the cost of providing those services.

In countries like Ireland where such competition does not exist, the telcos make up stories to justify high pricec. These stories are then believed by the regulator.

shinzon

I just had a horrible thought, with all this talk of quarterly payments in things, does this also apply to NETSMART

Just wondering,

TRI

eth0_

AFAIK it's payable monthly

highlight

Really?. I do know that the co location fee (or something) that ESAT pay is one of the highest going but I was under the impression that the wholesale rate for DSL ,as set by the RAT, was extremely high and thus had a knock on effect for any retail pricing.

wrong on both counts

Actually the co location fee is one of the lowest - Ireland is one of the only countries to have the colocation space in the exchange room, rather than engage in capital build like elsewhere. The wholesale DSL rate has nothing to do with the local loop unbundled rate

Fallschirmjager

ok, does anyone actually KNOW what this thread is about

it is co-loacating to iceland with an LLU..

SkepticOne

Originally posted by highlight
Actually the co location fee is one of the lowest - Ireland is one of the only countries to have the colocation space in the exchange room, rather than engage in capital build like elsewhere.

Just out of interest, what is the fee?

Fallschirmjager

well i guess this could be nailed in the toilet for the weak bowelled then


http://www.esatbt.com/esatcom/homepage/news_events/pr20022410-2.htm



another pile of poo on an extensive poo pile...

Hannibal_12

Originally posted by highlight

Actually the co location fee is one of the lowest - Ireland is one of the only countries to have the colocation space in the exchange room, rather than engage in capital build like elsewhere. The wholesale DSL rate has nothing to do with the local loop unbundled rate [/B]

I didn't mean to imply that LLU rate DSL was affected in anyway by wholesale pricing, I know it isn't, but having a wholesale rate as high as it is doesn't do much for takeup or competition. That was my original point, not made very well, sorry.

As for the co location, thanks for clearing that up. I read several times that it was very high here and just accepted it blindly.