ESAT BT ADSL (You're joking...)

Mark McG

I would be interested in any comments from this forum regarding my thread elsewhere on boards.ie concerning ESAT BT and their laughable attempts to provide me with ADSL.

Mark.

DC

Its pretty bad alright. As I replied on the other thread, ISDN is obviously the issue here. Everyone, including me, with a standard line seems to have had no problems and been installed within about 4 weeks.

And eircom won't install on ISDN at the moment.

And then again maybe you just got unlucky.

ando

esat rang me up today saying they were about to test my line for dsl ? Esat ring ppl.. wow, that was really unexpected

Anyway, I'm confident my line will fail anyway, but it was nice to see a big company actually taking the time to offer some customer service :eek:

BTW, I taught my exchange (belcamp) was not upgraded for esat?

dahamsta

And eircom won't install on ISDN at the moment.

They wha wha?

adam

DC

They won't line test on ISDN so I've heard according to De Rebel....

De Rebel

Originally posted by DC
They won't line test on ISDN so I've heard according to De Rebel....

Correct.

At present, if you have ISDN, you must have it uninstalled in order to have a DSL test conducted. And there is a charge for downgrading. Then, if the line fails, you must pay the ISDN installation fee again to have ISDN reinstalled.

They inform me that in January 2003 they will be in a position to conduct the test on a line which has already had ISDN installed.

Ericom. Power without responsibility. Profit without effort. Product without quality. Thanks very much Midlands Mary.

dahamsta

Well, according to the ODTR the system was upgraded in October to handle ISDN line tests. Perhaps you should drop them a line to ask why the system isn't being utilised DC?

[ EDIT: I notice in another thread that cherrio has dowgraded his/her line in order to get the line tested. That brings up a couple of interesting points: Did Eircom advise them to downgrade their line? If they did, and the system has in fact been upgraded, why did they do so? Is cherrio entitled to a refund? ]

adam

De Rebel

the information in my last post came from eircom, about 2 weeks ago. to be fair, when i asked about downgrading for the purposes of the test, they strongly recommended waiting until january when they would be in a position to test over isdn.

do you have a pointer to the ODTR statement about testing over isdn being available in october? if i get that i will follow up immediatly

Dustaz

I did a little digging today and although i havent confirmed this yet, i suspect that Eircom have the technology to do the ISDN test, but that it has not been implemented on all exchanges yet. They must be testing it on one exchange to see that it works ok.

ednwireland

that'll take at least two years then !!!!

Dustaz

I got it confirmed today.

Eircom have the ability to pre-qualify ISDN lines for DSL. This came from the ODTR, so if Eircom tell you that you must downgrade to do the test, ask to speak to a manager and if you still have no joy, contact the odtr , as eircom are able to do this as far as they are concerned.

Note that Eircom still cannot provide ADSL over ISDN (IDSL) as yet and Esat cannot do the above test. If you are interested in getting a test for an esat line, get Eircom to do the test first, then go to esat for your line.

De Rebel

Dustaz/Damhasta

Please could one of you point me to something on the ODTR website that says that the ADSL test can be run on an ISDN line NOW. I just phoned Eircom again and they are adamant that this test cannot be run until January. Also phoned a high level contact in Eircom and his take is that it might be possible in one or two places on the basis that the test is being tested (so to speak) but that it will not be generally available until january.

Dustaz, as a matter of interest, have you heard anything about IDSL (or any other form of DSL over/alongside ISDN) in this country? Or were you simply saying that its not available. I want ADSL but for buisness reasons I would like to retain my ISDN, but I really dont need two lots of copper.

ando

Originally posted by De Rebel
have you heard anything about IDSL (or any other form of DSL over/alongside ISDN) in this country? Or were you simply saying that its not available

Eircom only have plans to introduce Adsl. The only other possable Dsl that they are interested in is Vdsl. They won't be introducing Idsl or Radsl

BigEejit

Ericom. Power without responsibility. Profit without effort. Product without quality. Thanks very much Midlands Mary.

hee hee.... how true... how true

Mr.M

Originally posted by ando
Eircom only have plans to introduce Adsl. The only other possable Dsl that they are interested in is Vdsl. They won't be introducing Idsl or Radsl

just want to know a couple of things.

1:how do you know they won't make this available?
2:is east going to make either idsl or vdsl available

Dustaz

Originally posted by De Rebel
Dustaz/Damhasta

Please could one of you point me to something on the ODTR website that says that the ADSL test can be run on an ISDN line NOW. I just phoned Eircom again and they are adamant that this test cannot be run until January. Also phoned a high level contact in Eircom and his take is that it might be possible in one or two places on the basis that the test is being tested (so to speak) but that it will not be generally available until january.

I rang up and asked specifically about it after reading adams post. As far as the ODTR are concerned, Eircom can pre-qualify ISDN lines for PSTN DSL suitability NOW.

You can email them here : consumerline@odtr.ie

Id personally be interested to see if anyone in eircom will admit this.

De Rebel

Phoned the ODTR (Communications thingy, whatever)
They phoned back and gave me exactly the same story. However, nothing is available in writing, not in the public domain anyway.

Phoned Ericom, 3 times. Spoke to 3 different people. First 2 - no joy. Adamant that its not available and won't be until January. Last guy said they can do it, but it will probably fail anyway, and whether it passes or fails they couldn't stand over the result. I'm not even going to comment.

Threw in the words complaint and liability and got a bit more conclusive response. But nothing worth hearing really.

Bottom line is to move this on I have to complain to Eircom about the situation, then complain to the ODTR 10 days later. I think there is a liability issue. I was first told that "the test" was not available to me in mid November. Assuming I won't be tested until mid January then I am denied ADSL for 2 months - and even if it fails, they have unfairly and unnecessarily delayed me making an informed decision on moving to a lower cost competitor (UTV/IP)

TBH I'm not sure I could be arsed. This whole thing is a sick joke.

pepsiman

Originally posted by Dustaz
Note that Eircom still cannot provide ADSL over ISDN (IDSL)

I hope they won't either. IDSL "refers to a form of DSL providing a symmetrical speed of 144 Kbps over the copper wire provisioned for ISDN. Repeaters enable service up to 35,000 feet from the central office."

What you would like to see (I hope ) is Eircom providing ADSL Annex B, which is ADSL over ISDN (standard: ITU G.992.1 Annex B, where ADSL over PSTN is Annex A).

/Thomas

Dustaz

Err, im not really up on the more diverse flavours of xDSL but when i refer to IDSL i mean any form of DSL that can be delivered of ISDN lines. Afaik this is the flavour that can service furthest from the exchange.

Anyway, its off topic, i only mentioned it to avoid confusion, not create any

vinnyfitz

Eircom told me this afternoon that my ISDN line qualifies for DSL and that if I can wait untill January that I'll be able to convert over without downgrading to PSTN. (This apparently is something they are keen to offer their valued ISDN cutomers!) I have to say the sales person was as surprised as I was to find out that my ISDN line had prequalified!

This is particularly hilarious since the last time I called (yesterday) I was still being told that my line could not be prequalified without being downgraded. On that occasion I had asked the sales person to check with her manager and she had done so.

Conclusion IOFFL wins again - eircom have just now changed their procedures to
a. reveal whether ISDN lines have prequalified and
b. to promise DSL to their ISDN customers since they know we will run off to ESAT otherwise!

DC

Good work everyone. Obviously the right noises were being made.

It just goes to show that €ircon were not that keen to change customers from ISDN to ADSL. I mean why bother if they can rip you off by the minute with ISDN (or double that using both channels for dialup).

But pressure the RAT and you never know.

Dustaz

Congrats Vinny

Conclusive proof that ioffl can make a difference (well, to one persons wallet anyway ) Also, fair play to the ODTR for giving us straight answers. They come in for a bit of stick, but theyre up against eircom ffs

I just hope that this saves all other ISDN users the rip off of having to downgrade.

De Rebel

Congrats Vinnyfitz.

I decided that I would make one last attempt before going down the complaints route. Well actually 3 last attempts, to match yesterday's 3.

1st attempt - No ISDN tests until January. Bye.

2nd attempt - Can do an ISDN test, but unsure whether result would be conclusive, "if I were you I would wait until January to be sure" - thanks, and another 400 or 500 Euro gone in the mean time.

3rd attempt - Initally a lot of uncertainty again, yes we can do the test on an ISDN line but if it passes the test ADSL still may not work etc etc. etc. Mentioned ODTR/ComReg, etc. etc. etc.

Hey presto - got transferred to an ultra courteous and efficient person who explained the full situation:

• The lines are tested once every 4 weeks
• The tests run up to some specific date a few weeks ago always failed on ISDN lines
• The tests being conducted NOW can be run on ISDN lines and will give *accurate* results
• Therefore if the test is more than a few weeks old it is guaranteed to show a fail
• The test on my line was out of date and a new test has been rescheduled - results in a few days

Now if only they could issue a memo to staff and a bit on the website for their CUSTOMERS wouldn't it be so much simpler.

Also asked about what happens if my line passes. As we suspected, it will still be necessary to have ISDN removed - there are no plans to offer anything that allows ISDN and DSL on the same copper - be it IDSL or any other possibility.

Well thats the story today anyway. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

We are way off topic on this, but I posted here anyway to continue the thread.

/me is dashing off home to remove every single piece of cr*p from the line except one good old slaney..........

ozt9vdujny3srf

just wonderin is ADSL available thru esat bt over ISDN? ain't willin to accept 3gb cap :P

Dustaz

Pleas read threads more carfefully

Originally posted by Dustaz
Note that Eircom still cannot provide ADSL over ISDN (IDSL) as yet and Esat cannot do the above test.

Vinny wont be getting ADSL over ISDN, he will be getting his isdn line converted to adsl without the need to switch to pstn first.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Dustaz
Vinny wont be getting ADSL over ISDN, he will be getting his isdn line converted to adsl without the need to switch to pstn first. [/B]

Dustaz, in reality his ISDN will first be downgraded to pstn/pots and adsl will then be supplied on it.