Celtic to the Nationwide?

tHE vAGGABOND

From a Celtic mailing list, what do yis think?

"Sky Sports News tonight is running a story that the Chairman of Gillingham is predicting an imminent Nationwide UDI exit from football league administration before Xmas as the Nationwide teams are constantly getting outvoted by Divs 2 and 3 on important football matters. He says that support for the breakaway is rock solid and will have to happen before Xmas to allow 4 months to set up the new league. IMHO New League = definite Celtic invite (although no mention of this was made at all) no red tape at our end to breakfree from as the SPL don't want us anyway. If our goal is to get to the Premiership this route is by far the least contentious of all as it gives the Premiership time to adjust to the fact that Celtic could well be getting promotion within a season. Also fits in nicely with MON's new contract talks
and the fact that unlike Rangers, Celtic have never publically given up on a move down south. It wouldn't surprise me if Dermot was a "player" in the moves to make it happen."



As a Celtic fan, sounds good to me! Rather play Wolves or Leicester than Partick. One season and were in the Premiership! Given the money problems all over english league football, its just what both sides need, and if both sides want it UEFA cant do **** all. Maybe part of the deal would be something like Celtic cant go up for x seasons, but we could use that to rebuild since Larsson and Petrov and others are on the way out.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I have no doubt that Celtic would struggle in the 1st division. Definitely not a in one season, up the next scenario.

Waylander

I would not say they would definitely take longer then one season to get up but it would be tougher then alot of Celtic fans assume. But with Celtics income you would expect them to come up sooner rather then later. However I cannot see them moving to an English league without Rangers going to.

tHE vAGGABOND

I have no doubt that Celtic would struggle in the 1st division

Like we had to struggle to beat Blackburn last week you mean

Waylander : Its presumed its an invite to both clubs, but as this is just something from a Celtic list that I found intresting. We dont talk about Rangers that much

tHE vAGGABOND

Think about it tho, we have the second biggest club ground in England, after Old T. Its totall sold out every week, 80% season tickets. We have a massive support around England. Thats why of the 10 biggest testimonals ever in the UK, Celtic played in 8 of the games <or thereabouts>. We can generate revenue, to pay players that bit more, or get players with that extra bit of class. Thats not being big headed, its just financial logic.

We have the money, and the background. Im not saying it would be easy and we would win the league by 30 points, but I do think we <and rangers> could account for a large percentage of the 1st division sides week in and week out with no great problems.

The_Bullman

I also think that Celtic would struggle in the 1st devision. Just think about all the premiership teams that get relegated that you would think would just get promoted again straight away but then fail to do do well.


as for the blackburn game(s). celtic did very well. but as you are well aware cup games are not the same as week-in week-out league fixtures. Added to the blackburn match was a former Rangers manager trying to play that card(and failing).There is also twice the number of teams in the 1st division than there is in the SPL so this may cause problems too.

Scottish

Interesting to see support for this in Ireland.

I think both Celtic and Rangers should be thrown out of Scottish football, as punishment for the damage they have inflicted on it for the past 15 years in particular.

England are more than welcome to the kind of vile, ignorant attitudes that both these clubs and their supporters inflict on the rest of Scottish football and culture. If anyone that reads this has been to Glasgow, then they will know what I am talking about. Orange and Hibernian walks surely should have no place in that city, but they do (particularly the organge walks) and they continue to be present because of the hold that secterianism still has because of the attitudes of these two money grabbing, bloated clubs. They both pay lip service to stamping it out, but the reality is that they would be nowhere without it. Meanwhile people continue to be stabbed, beaten and murdered there because of the football top they wear.

On the subject of success in Europe, anyone who knows anything about Scottish football will know that the only time scottish clubs have ever been a success in Europe has been when they have produced their own players (Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen). The argument that Celtic and Rangers need to get out to succeed is ludicrous. The decline of the last 15 - 20 years has coincided with the wasteful spending of these two idiots, while they have ignored the local talent or bought it from other clubs, only to leave them sitting in the reserves.

I'm a Partick Thistle fan, and proud of it. At least I don't sing about fenian blood and orange scum.

An annoyed Glaswegian!

SheroN

There's been plenty of times lower leauge teams have beaten premiership/1st division oposition, that doesn't mean they're premiership quality....same thing applies to celtic.

tHE vAGGABOND

sher : Celtic beat Ajax and Juve among others in the champions league last year, and eventually lost on away goals to Valencia in the Uefa Cup. Its not a once off..

I have been up to Glasgow several times and indeed to the Northern Ireland, where my best mate now lives. I agree that the Green v Orange thing seems very childish. I tried and explain the whole thing to my Aussie house mates, and they just did not get it, that each side is just essentially doing marches to piss the other side off and to mark its territory, like a dog pissing! That some of the Orange people won’t talk to the parades commission and then moans when it does not find in their favour. Yet others sort it out and things pass off no problem, and 2 hours later its over for another year.

But I understand how people wonder why they do it at all when all it does is wind people up, and make more people angry and move more ‘hardcode’ people further from peace. But that’s a conversation for another day!

I’m a football fan, not a racist bigot. I don’t buy the nasty fanzines, and I don’t sing the nasty songs. But one person’s nasty song is not to another person. I quite like it when Celtic fans sing the Soldiers Song for example, but to others that would be a bad thing. Each to their own I suppose.

Scottish

Wasn't accusing everyone of being like that, but since I left Glasgow (over 8 years ago) you do see these things in a different light. The poison they spread is quite disgusting.

As for the football, Celtic didn't survive past Christmas which isn't the sign of a successful team. Rangers survived past Christmas in Europe for the first time in ages last season. The last time they did well in Europe was during the first ever champions league format, when they went out to the eventual winners (Marseille) on goal difference, at a time when the league winner went straight to the final. Guess what was in force at that time? The 3 foriegners rule, which meant that Rangers had to promote some of their young Scottish players. But still, they would rather go out and spend money on Mel Sterland!

My point is that its not Scottish football that holds either of them back in Europe. In fact, the number of Scottish players in their teams has previously been the main factor in their success (all of Celtics players, bar one, that won the European cup was born within 25 miles of Parkhead). Celtic and Rangers have turned their backs on Scotland and its young players. They have strangled their development and bought players in like Rafeal Schidte and Bert Konterman. For every Larsson there are have been a number of useless journeymen earning over 20k a week. Both of their youth programs are a joke, though at last Rangers seem to realise this.

Kick them out. They may or may not struggle in England, most of Scotland doesn't care anymore. And if they want to come back, then we wont have them. Money has changed them, and I think it all looks a bit tawdry.

kamobe

Celtic have some real quality in their side, i rekcon they'd easily get promoted in their first year. And if not, should have at least make the play offs. They were dissapointing against Blackburn at Celtic Park, but completly played them off the pitch in the second leg.

As Scottish said, they are harming scottish footy by remaing in the SPL. O'Neill, Malone, Douglas and Lambert are the only natives (that i can think of) who play, Douglas and Lambert being the only true first team players. Rangers are similiar, and this definately shows in the National team....

In the long term 'twould be a good move for Celtic and scottish football, or at least i would think so. Still very sceptical as to whether it will happen or not though

Waylander

I disagree with you there Scotish. Back when Scottish clubs were a succes in Europe all clubs were predominantly made up of local players not just the Scottish ones. I do not think the reason for the decline of Scottish football is the influx of foreigners, I believe it is the lack of competition to the top two, or occassionally a third team comes into the frame for a season or two but can never sustain it. Also if this was true, the other clubs who do get the local talent would surely be alot stronger as Celtic and Rangers are letting the best local talent slip through their fingers.

KdjaCL

Going from 30 odd games with one decent team to 50ish against rock hard teams who can play football will be extremley difficult.

I hope it never happens and they both rot in scotland.

Or if it does they relegated

Div2 would welcome them

kdja

Scottish

Waylander

I accept that the game has become more multinational. However, the great Liverpool side of the 1970's and 80's was built around players who were not local - Souness, Dalgliesh, Hansen, Lawrenson, Rush etc. Also, Man U of the 60's Best, Law, Crerand. The Real Madrid side that Aberdeen beat in the final, while a shadow of previous incarnations, had a lot of international talent in the side. Real Madrid of the 60's had a few foriegn players in their side also. The Scottish clubs that were a success at the time were entirely made up of Scots, due to financial restrictions.

It is a myth that there has ever been "competition" in Scotland you only have to look at the stats over the years to see that since the war, there has only ever been 2 teams in it, with some notable exceptions.

Celtic and Rangers have strangled the local talent base recently, by not giving it a chance and that is principally the fault of Rangers, as they started the whole process in 1986. I can think of 3 young strikers who recently had the misfortune to find themselves with the old firm, who have had their confidence so badly damaged that they are now in the Nationwide in England (ironically enough). Rangers even paid Hibs 1.5m for one of them only to show him the door (Kenny Miller) and sell him to Wolves - and then they bought Tore Andre Flo!!! This time frame coincides exactly with the demise of the Scottish national side. We don't produce players anymore, we consume them. Ireland and Wales have taken over from us in this respect.

Anyway, I think they would probably do well down there. I think they should not be allowed to call themselves Scottish though. That is sad, because the reason that they are so "unique" is because of the city they are from, in spite of all their failings.

tHE vAGGABOND

Maurice Ross at Rangers is a good example too, a good right back and played really well last year, only 20 odd..and rangers buy some crap player from the nationwide to play in his position so its back to the reserves to Ross. As a Celtic fan Im thrilled as I think Ross will turn into a good player, but its bad for Rangers and Scotland.

Same with Celtic and Maloney, Crainey etc - other years they would be regular first team players, and have started bagging caps for scotland but they play the odd game as a sub..

What is sad tho is that Rangers sold Flo

Scottish

Too true. And its not doing Colin Healy any good either, and he looks like a brilliant prospect for Ireland. Can't get into the team at the moment.

As for Flo, just the latest in a long line of hee-haws to playup fron for Rangers. Celtic fans must have been so upset to see him go. He was like Tony Cascarino, only in blue. Dreadful.

I still support them both in Europe, unbelievably enough. Was really ahppy to see Celtic put out Blackburn. The English media needs a black eye every now and again.

tHE vAGGABOND

Healy is unlucky, as Centre of Mid is the position were strongest in with Lennon, Petrov and Lambert. That said, Petrov is all but gone at the end of this season. He wants a new contract (current one up in two years) and wants the same money as Larsson or nothing. He will get his chance then, or never!

Scottish

Point taken about the middle of the park.

I think, though, that if O'neill stays then so will Petrov. Lambert will probably find himself keeping Tom Boyd company, you can almost hear his knees creaking when he runs!

I hope O'Neill isn't eyeing up the Leeds job. If he is, they should go for Moyes - even if he is a Rangers fan

G

I'd be very sceptical about Celtic getting into the Nationwide. As we all know, it's a huge club with massive support - think of how much more revenue they'd make if they got into England. The point being, the Premiership big dogs don't want a club with Celtics potential in the ring with them and will do their utmost to stop it from happening.

That said, I'd love them to get in.

G

I hope O'Neill isn't eyeing up the Leeds job

he's waiting for the United job isn't he?

Scottish

So the legend goes - but Ferguson is rumoured to be looking to stay on past his current extension. Besides, O'Neill is unproven in Europe which is where United want to be a success the most. I still think that wycombe - leicester - celtic isn't really the track record the Man U plc board would look for. Also, he's won nothing other than the treble with celtic. I think Man U will look overseas. The O'Neill to Man U thing looks like a media creation (he did win a libe case against a Sunday newspaper not that long ago).

It looks more and more likely that O'neill will leave the 'tic but you just don't know with him. I have to say, I thought his contract would have been sorted by now if it was going to be extended.

tHE vAGGABOND

Also, he's won nothing other than the treble with celtic

lol, other than the treble! He has won the league both seasons he is manager - what more can you ask, and dont forget he won the league cup with Leicester. After he left they fell apart. We did well in the Champions league last year, and this year went out on away goals to the team who have just beaten Liverpool home and away.

Word is that he is going to sign a new contract at Celtic with a get out clause of Man Yew offer him the job. But given Fergie seems to have lost his touch and there are signs of decent in the Man U camp that may be in 2 years when his contract is up (and when ghod is leaving) anyway.

If I was a Man U fan I would be begging for them to get him. he makes average players good and good players great. He would do wonders at Old Trafford.

I'm kinda resigned ot loosing him at this stage, as Celtic dont have the money he wants to spend. That said, I hope he goes nowhere!

simon_partridge

Well I heard somewhere that when the phoenix league plans were being drawn up last year there'd be a clause similar to the EU enlargement one saying Celtic and Rangers wouldn't be eligible for all the English league pickings, including promotion, for several seasons since otherwise the current division 1 clubs would never accept it... the thought obviuosly was that despite this it would be a step up for the old firm to be solid nationwide league material

Scottish

Hey Vagga, don't get so defensive! the treble in Scotland changes hands between Celtic and Rangers with alarming frequency. Dick Advocaat won it in his first year. O'Neill has done a great job, no doubt about it. However, it is still a bit parochial. The Champions league stuff was exciting, but they only really excelled at home, with the crowd behind them. When it came down to it, he couldn't see beyond the 3-5-2 system that Porto pulled to pieces (as did Basle at times).

I really like him, I think he is an excellent manager and seems very intelligent. Don't think he has the CV for Man U though. I think they will go for a celebrity manager, a Hitzfeld or a Cappelo someone with a real track record.

I think he might go to Leeds in the summer. Thats one rumour I've heard from Glasgow.