BBC considers cutting from Sky Digital

DMC

BBC may pull plug on Sky

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,817332,00.html

Corporation fears huge increase in satellite fees next year

John Cassy, media business correspondent
Wednesday October 23, 2002
The Guardian

BBC1 and BBC2 could be withdrawn from the basic package of channels available to Sky's 6 million subscribers if a growing row over the prices the corporation is charged to air its programmes on satellite is not resolved.

The BBC last night warned that it was considering taking the radical action because it feared a multi-million pound escalation in fees when its contract with Sky comes up for renewal in May. "This is money that could be spent on creating new programmes like Blue Planet yet instead its being used to subsidise the cost of Sky's commercial network," said Julian McGougan, senior policy adviser at the BBC.

"We fear the fee Sky wants to charge us could at least triple. At some point we may have to say, sorry, something has to give and one of our options is to take our channels off the platform."

The BBC has teamed up with ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 to lobby the government to amend legislation so that public service broadcasters are exempt from paying so called "conditional access" fees on Sky. Cable firms NTL and Telewest levy no charge on any of the terrestrial channels.

A growing number of MPs are sympathetic to the terrestrial channels' cause and the culture media and sport select committee has recommended that public service broadcasters are given free carriage on Sky.

"I have no objection to Rupert Murdoch having the opportunity to own Channel 5 but I worry that he has control of the choke-point in the system which is the set-top box," said Chris Bryant, Labour MP for Rhondda and a member of the committee.

"Given Sky's control of the set-top box there needs to be robust, independent arbitration on the prices it charges and Oftel doesn't do that. Otherwise carriage for public service broadcasters needs to be made free altogether."

The extent of the rift between Sky and its terrestrial rivals emerged yesterday after regulator Oftel threw out a complaint from ITV about the price the network is charged to broadcast its programmes on digital satellite TV.

After a lengthy investigation Oftel insisted that it had found no evidence that the £17m charge levied on ITV each year was "unreasonable, unfair or discriminatory".

The money pays for "conditional access" which covers the cost of encrypting ITV broadcasts on Sky so that programme copyrights are protected and regional shows do not spill into other areas.

PSBs insist that because they are obliged to make their programmes available to everyone they should not be charged to show them through Sky.

BSkyB says that broadcasters like ITV are only able to reach its 6m subscribers and benefit from interactive programming because of the £2bn it has invested in digital television infrastructure.

"No complaints against Sky's terms have ever been upheld and Oftel has quite rightly told the PSBs that they should not receive unique treatment and be allowed carriage for free," said a BSkyB source.

Insiders at the satellite firm stress that the BBC is obliged to promote its channels across all platforms and are sceptical it would risk withdrawing its eight digital channels from Sky's 6m homes.

watty

In the light of this it is Ironic that Oftel has said Sky's charges to ITV (7million Stg?) are not discrimatory (They rip off everyone the same?) nor too expensive (Costs more to invent your own conditional access system and distribute boxes).

Obviously this affects everyone in British Isles, not just Irish viewers. In fact since Sky must pay BBC for the two "Irish" family pack access you could in theory have a wierd scenario where all the BBC are gone from FTV card (about 11 to 15 BBC TV channels are on Conditional access?), but still BBC NI and BBC2 NI in ROI only! Not very likely though

spuddy

Its more like UK£17 million ITV pay for conditional access!

The BBC could end up on something like the Sky UK basic/family pack (similar to RTÉ) and so there would be no reason BBC1/2 wouldn't stay on Sky Ireland as the beeb receives part of our Sky subscription charge

Also as the UK gov are trying to turn off analogue terrestrial by 2010 and digital terrestrial does not have 100% population coverage so it seems highly unlikely that they would allow the the BBC to withdraw from satellite.

DMC

Originally posted by spuddy
The BBC could end up on something like the Sky UK basic/family pack (similar to RTÉ) and so there would be no reason BBC1/2 wouldn't stay on Sky Ireland as the beeb receives part of our Sky subscription charge

Very unlikely, as you dont pay for the BBC on cable or on Sky, whereas you do here for RTÉ on either platform.

Also as the UK gov are trying to turn off analogue terrestrial by 2010 and digital terrestrial does not have 100% population coverage so it seems highly unlikely that they would allow the the BBC to withdraw from satellite.

Even they should see that that is very unlikely now. Its the threat, to reduce costs, and make it uniform across the board for conditional access. Should be interesting.

Hmmm..., this is a very interesting negotiating ploy by the BBC.
If they are forced to carry it through, what are the implications for FTV cards, considering the EPG is owned by Sky, or is that situation covered by UK legislation?
I'm assuming that by Basic package this article is refering to a subscription package and not FTV cards?

I find it ironic that the BBC should be so commercially dependent on Sky's input into it's new freeview service while fearing the worst with future charges on Sky digital.

Brinkmanship dont you just love it.
mm

ShaneOC

Man (I miss the Mad ), looks like your iron mongery could be in demand again.

watty

It's UK, so they mean FTV card. .... *maybe*.....

If BBC1 was subscription only in UK (against the law there), Sky would be paying BBC and thus not charging for conditional access. But because BBC is not part of a Sky Sub in UK they have to "pay their own way".

Whereas here the "basic" is the misnamed "Value pack" (pedant mode) or possibly Family Pack (normal reason for getting Sky)

RTE is charged for by Sky so don't pay a penny for Conditional Access OR the transponder.

If all the Irish channels used a ROI only FTV card, then RTE et al could rent a transponder direct from Eutelsat or Astra (Sky don't own the Satlellites at 28.2) but would have to pay Sky xxxMillion for Conditional Access (i.e. make the cards work) and pay Sky xxxxThousand for EPG entries.

BBC & ITV don't object about how much the actual transponder costs. It is about how much Sky are charging simply to let them use the Sky Videoguard.

Since Digiboxes can't take a different CAM (Which should be illegal all PAY TV satellite boxes in Europe should by law have a CI for other services CAM or else the provider has a monopoly), and ITV / BBC / RTE *MUST* provide "Conditional Access" to meet "Rights" contracts on bought in programs, BSkyB has them over a barrel. They can't say "Sod you" and go off and use Viaccess, seca, betacrypt, Iredeto or Powervu etc as people would need to change the Digibox for a box that can do those system.

It is monoplolistic that you can ONLY use a Sky card in a Digibox and other pay TV boxes can take any card EXCEPT Sky, with correct CAM.
Sky won't licence videoguard (Digibox) to any manuafacturer to add non-Sky cam or even DTT also in the box.

Does the SEVEN MILLION Sky charge ITV, NOT FOR CARRIAGE OR EPG, but just so the card works, seem reasonable? Oftel thinks it is.

How much is Beeb actually paying SSSL (BSkyB's conditonal access management company)?

lawhec

My inital reaction in reading this story is "The southerners will be s**tting themselves!" I'd say this is a brinkmanship tatic being used by the Beeb and my guess is that it'll pay off and will mean that the 5 UK terrestial broadcasters will end up getting a common CA fee.

The BBC could end up on something like the Sky UK basic/family pack (similar to RTÉ) and so there would be no reason BBC1/2 wouldn't stay on Sky Ireland as the beeb receives part of our Sky subscription charge

Also as the UK gov are trying to turn off analogue terrestrial by 2010 and digital terrestrial does not have 100% population coverage so it seems highly unlikely that they would allow the the BBC to withdraw from satellite.

Firstly it would be illegal for the BBC (at least for BBC1 & 2 and perhaps possibly all Licence fee funded channels) to make it's channels part of a subscription service in the UK. The same rule also applies to ITV companies, Channel 4 and five - the five main terrestial broadcasters canot charge a fee for viewing their output on any platform and that is why FTV cards available for free exist.

Analogue Terrestial TV still doesn't cover 100% of the UK and never will (neither will DTT) but also Digital Satellite cannot cover 100% of the country either usualy because of local obsticales blocking the view of the satellite at 28 degrees east.

I would not worry too much about it - the BBC will be on Astra 2 for the forseeable future.

Finally a question to watty - is it possible in MPEG2 to run two encryption systems in parallel with a single data stream so that for example BBC1 could be encrypted in both Videoguard and another system (e.g. Irdeto) with only one encryption system needed to view the channel? As for the monopolilisitc use of Videoguard, Sky could argue that they effectively give the Sky Digibox away for nothing so that it wouldn't have to meet the EU requirements. Nevertheless, I've noticed that Premier World (German Pay TV package) has now allowed Betacrypt CAMs to be built so that viewers no longer have to use the D-Box to view the service (it got banned in Switzerland if I remember rightly because of competition rules.)

DMC

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent
Firstly it would be illegal for the BBC (at least for BBC1 & 2 and perhaps possibly all Licence fee funded channels) to make it's channels part of a subscription service in the UK. The same rule also applies to ITV companies, Channel 4 and five - the five main terrestial broadcasters canot charge a fee for viewing their output on any platform and that is why FTV cards available for free exist.

And that brilliant explaination shows why we dont and cannot have the same FTA system down here, as RTÉ for donkeys years has been part of the cable subscriptions. The law of the land.

watty

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent

Firstly it would be illegal for the BBC (at least for BBC1 & 2 and perhaps possibly all Licence fee funded channels) to make it's channels part of a subscription service in the UK. The same rule also applies to ITV companies, Channel 4 and five - the five main terrestial broadcasters canot charge a fee for viewing their output on any platform and that is why FTV cards available for free exist.

But ironically not illegal for BBC 1 & 2 NI to be *ONLY* on ROI pay familly pack.. nah I don't beleive that as a scenario, though technically possible!

I would not worry too much about it - the BBC will be on Astra 2 for the forseeable future.

Can't see Sky taking the threat seriously .. but you never know.

Finally a question to watty - is it possible in MPEG2 to run two encryption systems in parallel with a single data stream so that for example BBC1 could be encrypted in both Videoguard and another system (e.g. Irdeto) with only one encryption system needed to view the channel? As for the monopolilisitc use of Videoguard, Sky could argue that they effectively give the Sky Digibox away for nothing so that it wouldn't have to meet the EU requirements. Nevertheless, I've noticed that Premier World (German Pay TV package) has now allowed Betacrypt CAMs to be built so that viewers no longer have to use the D-Box to view the service (it got banned in Switzerland if I remember rightly because of competition rules.) [/B]

I think in theory you can. The system then is as strong as the weakest access system. Many channels are listed as multi-crypt (www.lyngsat.com) but appear only once on my PC Scan.

Apparently also some are also like old C5 on Videocrypt -- you only need CAM and not viewing card. Must get an AllCam

jez

Quick point

Sky need BBC more than BBC need Sky.

BBC leave Sky,Ireland and UK is full of Digiboxes paying zilch to Sky.

Don't think they'd fancy that somehow...!!

speedfreak

I think this statement from the BBC in today's Indo can put our minds at ease (for the moment)!

BBC backs BSkyB



The BBC has no plans to pull its services from rival BSkyB's satellite platform in a row over prices.


In addition to its free-to-air broadcasts, the BBC1 and BBC2 channels are included in the package available to BSkyB's Sky subscribers, for which the BBC pays the satellite service a fee.


"The BBC has a long-standing commitment to broadcast its television, radio and interactive services on all platforms and as such has no plans to pull its services from satellite television," the public broadcaster said in a statement.

SRB

I think in theory you can. The system then is as strong as the weakest access system. Many channels are listed as multi-crypt (www.lyngsat.com) but appear only once on my PC Scan.

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It is possible, the Dutch packages from Canal Plus are both Seca and (some channels are) Irdeto, likewise Stream use Irdeto and Seca in Italy. In France you'll find a mixture of Viaccess and Seca is the norm.