Equal Status Act

Victor

From http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2002/1022/2280033419HM1BRAYGOLF.html

Bray Golf Club has fortnight to end bias against women

Bray Golf Club is facing the threat of being declared Ireland's first "discriminating club" over its treatment of women members.

The Equality Authority has given the club a fortnight to say it will comply with equal status legislation by giving women golfers equal rights in the club.

If it doesn't, the authority will seek a declaration from the District Court that it is a "discriminating club". The likely consequence of such a determination is that the club would lose its drinks licence.

While Bray's case is the furthest advanced, 10 other golf clubs are being investigated over allegations that they discriminate against women members, according to the authority.

In a letter to the club, which has been seen by The Irish Times, the authority accuses it of denying female members their status as full members. It alleges that since the introduction of the Equal Status Act in 2000, the club deliberately put in place "an elaborate set of rules and procedures devised to thwart the operation of the Act".

It states that the club imposed an "exorbitant" fee for women seeking to transfer from associate to full membership. This was doubled to £5,000 "in a clear attempt to provide some sort of cover for the excessive level at which the transfer fee was fixed".

It also accuses the club of denying women members a vote on these arrangements and of allocating them "substantially less playing time" than men. At weekends, women have been "systematically" excluded from playing, according to the authority.

A further area of dispute is the snooker room from which women are excluded, the letter claims.

"The sign saying 'members only' was clearly intended to refer solely to male members [and] was only removed in recent weeks. The area still continues as a male preserve."

Women members, who declined to be identified, told The Irish Times of how their names had been scratched off the timesheet and replaced with those of male members.

The president of the club, Mr Cyril Dunne, declined to comment until the letter from the Equality Authority had been fully considered. However, it is understood the club does not accept that it is in breach of the Act.

Relations between men and women in the 275-member club have been testy for almost a decade.

In 1993, women campaigned successfully to bring an end to the practice of not allowing women to become full members. However, very few vacancies for full membership for women have arisen since and only 11 have attained this status, they say.

The nine-hole club, which was founded in 1897, is scheduled to move next year from its position in the centre of the town of Bray to Bray Head. As part of a €64 million land swap, the old course will have houses and other facilities built on it.

The club will have an 18-hole course at its new home.

neuro-praxis

Once more we are confronted with evidence that women still remain trapped under the thumb of men in this damned country.

Keeks

I really wish there were more male only golf courses...there is nothing worse than being stuck behind a womens fourball..:)


No but seriously, without trying to provoke anyone or sounding sexist, racist or xenophoic, why shouldn't a private club be allowed to decide what members it should or shouldn't allow in.

kaimera

Doesn't the idea of "private clubs" promote the idea of elitism?
A golf club is a sports club.
Sport shouldn't be for an elite group especially not golf.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DadaKopf

I expect all the same arguments for and against were spouted way back when the Suffragettes were campaiging for the vote. Everyone will agree that it was a good thing that women got the vote on the same terms as men.

Even if you say that in a golf club, there can be different membership packages, at different rates, tailored towards each sex, that still doesn't free up the issue. It would probably become clear that the packages were priced in such a way that only men could pay for the full package. That's using the system to perpetuate elitism. They've done this for years in the US. The problem is that women have become capable of paying these and some people just can't accept it.

Why there are men only clube, or women only clubs is beyond me. First of all, it seems to me they're less fun and in any case, no one can stop your right to free association - if you're in a mixed golf club, you can just ignore one half of the membership.

Victor

Originally posted by Keeks
No but seriously, without trying to provoke anyone or sounding sexist, racist or xenophoic, why shouldn't a private club be allowed to decide what members it should or shouldn't allow in.

The simple answer is that it is illegal. Because there are certain things that cannot be legislated for (informal old boys clubs and the like), those things that promote that can be legislated for, should be legislated for.

In the case of Bray they could have provided equal but separate facilities, but they didn't.

Biffa Bacon

Once more we are confronted with evidence that women still remain trapped under the thumb of men in this damned country.

Once more we are confronted with evidence that the PC mafia can impose their views on private individual morality on others without a peep out of so-called liberals.

I expect all the same arguments for and against were spouted way back when the Suffragettes were campaiging for the vote.

Well then just to clarify for you, they weren’t. A golf club is a private, voluntary association of individuals, a nation state is not.

The simple answer is that it is illegal.

And why should it be illegal?

mike65

I have to say I don't have a problem with privatre clubs, just do long as they don't (as some golf clubs have) start looking for public money.

Mike.

Meh

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
A golf club is a private, voluntary association of individuals, a nation state is not.

If they want a government-issued drinks license, they'd better play by the government's rules. Selling alcohol is a privilege, not a right.

Keeks

Originally posted by mike65
I have to say I don't have a problem with privatre clubs, just do long as they don't (as some golf clubs have) start looking for public money.

Mike.

This is the point I'm trying to make.....If privatly funded clubs want male/female only members shouldn't they be allowed to do it.

The idea of elitism is slowly dying within modern society (at least I think so anyway). People will still try to look down at you but it doesn't have the same effect it once had. people just shrug it off and get on with it. If people need a club to satify their "elitism" let them have it, and like mike65 said, if it doesn't come out of the public money there should be no problem.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Meh
If they want a government-issued drinks license, they'd better play by the government's rules. Selling alcohol is a privilege, not a right.

Legally yes, but why should the government impose these conditions on them?