Taxi Drivers rant

seamus

I'm just so pissed off with giving them so much money when buses aren't available. I spent 60 on 3 taxis last week, cos I had no other choice :mad:

A few figures (all made up by me, as accurate as I can possibly try to be):

Distance from town to Lucan(home) 8 miles.

Average Taxi charge for this route: E24

Average cost/mile: E3

Assume the taxi driver must retrace route without getting paid, average cost/mile: E1.50

Now, assume taxi driver does 30,000 business miles per year (sounds reasonable): total income: E45,000

Petrol costs, assuming a tank of E50 will get you E400 miles: E3750

Insurance Costs (Based on 30yo male, 6 years licence, 1.6 5years NCB): E7000 (max)

Car Tax: E387

Car Repairs (avg for one year): E1000

Sundries: E1000

Total expenses: E13137

Net Income: E31863

OK, plenty of the figures will be quite off - e.g. Insurance may be way more, tax could be a bit more (I'm not sure), and there may be other business charges I don't know about. Conversely, A lot of taxi drivers will pick up someone on most return trips, and may do way more than 30,000 miles per year.

So If this figure is remotely right (+-E5000), WTF are they complaining about?!

Driving a taxi is an unskilled job. Many graduates start on far less than a taxi driver earns. If I could do an unskilled job and make upwards of E20,000 I'd be delighted. They complain that they can't afford to live, to feed their families. Then get a real job! Unskilled jobs don't pay enough to feed an entire family and pay for a 3 bedroom semi-d. Why should Taxis be any different. On the continent, and in fact, anywhere else I've been, the taxi drivers have been either very young people (<21) or older men, who's kids have more than likely moved out. I reckon it's time they copped onto themselves. IMO, no taxi driver should be earning more than E18,000pa. Why should they?

Feel free to point out glaring omissions in my figures.......

(Sorry, just needed ranting)

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by seamus
IMO, no taxi driver should be earning more than E18,000pa. Why should they?

Why shouldn't they? We all have to earn a crust. And with all due respect €18000 is sweet f all!

Maybe if your figures were more accurate, I wouldn't be supporting them

seamus

Where are my figures not accurate(ish)? Seriously, I seriously doubt they're right too.

E18,000pa(£14,500) is a lot for an unskilled job.

Felix Randel

unskilled! perhaps but having to deal with the dangers of irish roads n drunken passengers imo demands a comfortable salary.

Gordon

If it's so bad get a car!

seamus

Originally posted by Gordon
If it's so bad get a car!

tried that. Don't get me started. I've done enough ranting today Obviously no-oe else hates them with the same gusto I do

Gordon

No, I agree that it is a bit too expensive for getting a taxi here. Especially when you cross "the line" apparently. I read an article that placed Dublin taxis compared to NYC and London and if I recall it was more expensive in Dublin.

Everything in Dublin is expensive ffs even the air as it has so much feckin pollution!

azezil

what gets my goat is the price differences from region to region, eg. i got a taxi from waterford to kilkenny E40, kilkenny to waterford E50... arse ache like

mike65

Originally posted by azezil
what gets my goat is the price differences from region to region, eg. i got a taxi from waterford to kilkenny E40, kilkenny to waterford E50... arse ache like

Hmm I guess Deise folk want to get Cats out of the county quick,
so they charge less! A bus costs what, €8-10?. I'd have waited
(if possible).

Mike.

jd

18k eek..
Seamus, I don't have much sympathy for taxi drivers, but you're coming across like a spoilt snobbish middle class pup

EL_Diablo

Ok assume your figures are remotely accurate, depending on the taxi add to the costs between €15,000 and €35,000 for a car to start with, maintanence for the car throughout the year (a lot of wear and tear with so many miles a year), loss of earnings when the car is being repaired, again depending on the taxi it can be €5,000 for a plate, it can all add up.
And tbh Fares have nothing to do with the actual drivers, it's the unions who negotiate the fare increases or the government who give it to them you'd wanna start complaining about. The drivers aren't going to say no don't give us more money.

Venom

I spent 60 on 3 taxis last week, cos I had no other choice

Bollocks. You always have a choice. You could of made sure you were not left in a position where you HAD to get a taxi.

IMO, no taxi driver should be earning more than E18,000pa.

Cop on to yourself. No one would do that job for that sort of cash. Having to put up with all the hassle, the drunks, the danger from both passengers and Irish road travel for such a crappy wage.

Somehow I get the feeling you are the type that complains like a bástard around Christmas/bank holidays/weekends because you cant get a taxi the instant you want one.

Slutmonkey57b

Cost of a plate: ?6,300
Cost of Insurance: ?7-8,000
Cost of Car(second hand): ?9,000max
Or
Cost of Wheelchair accessible car+plate 2nd hand: ?15,000.

Setup costs: ?21k for your first year.
Recurrant costs (insurance, fuel, repairs) are covered by the cost of the fare (ie are reflected in the amount of use a car gets).

Pre-Deregulation plates alone were going for ?100k+.

The amount of plates has tripled, leaving us with the similar number of theoretical cabs (each plate would be cosied out to at least 2 other drivers in a 24 hour period).

There's no shortage of money in taxis.
You could easily cover those costs working the 3 weekend nights.

What gets me is that having made a speculative investment on plates knowing that dramatic increases in plate numbers were on the horizon, people now insist that the money is taken out of MY pocket because THEIR investment isn't (quite) as valauable as it once was! Some fncking neck. Sorry but drivers are self-employed. If I'm self employed and I go out of business, do I deserve to be bailed out by the state? Do I fu.ck.

seamus

Originally posted by Venom
Bollocks. You always have a choice. You could of made sure you were not left in a position where you HAD to get a taxi.

Yeah, I could have stayed at home. But that's about it. Midweek, after 10.30, I have no way of getting home, if I've decided to go out and enjoy myself with a few drinks.

Somehow I get the feeling you are the type that complains like a bástard around Christmas/bank holidays/weekends because you cant get a taxi the instant you want one.

No, I complain most of the time . I wouldn't mind, but the unions are giving out, "Deregulation is killing taxi drivers, we have to fight for our work". Yet the queues at taxi ranks are just as long as they've ever been. There's conflicting logic here. I really have no problem waiting for taxis, or tramping all over the place looking for one - hell that's part of the fun of being out on the piss - but when the union is telling me there are too many taxis, that's what annoys me.

amp

Right so (he said, trying to shape this into something resembling a debate) the question is:

Has taxi deregulation worked, or are the Taxi unions complaining about to many taxi's for their own selfish reasons?

neuro-praxis

Deregulation absolutely HAD to be done. The government were right to do it, whether or not the taxi drivers liked it. They had the monopoly, and now they don't.

Havin said that: Séamus I understand your frustration but taxis are not a right like public transport - they are a luxury. You can expect to pay high prices for a luxury. Of course they are entitled to earn as much as they like. How can you possibly attempt to justify putting a limit on their earnings simply because they are unskilled? That's unbelievably un-capitalist.

They are still making money. I don't care what they say. I know they are. It's hard to get a taxi because they're always in use.

What we should actually be complaining about is the public transport system in this country; not the taxis.

Quigs Snr

Seamus, can see where the frustration is coming from, but I'm afraid you're a dick. I have to say I'm surprised at you.

I happen to know a great deal about this subject having 2 cabbies in the family. You see it depends where you are in the country. Many cabbies in Dublin in particular bought plates for half nothing back in the day, made loads of cash, (and by the way did not apply for compensation as it would have exposed their creative accounting and tax dodging). I have no sympathy for these people.

Expenses are high. Insurance is 5-12000 euro depending. Setup costs, meters, cars etc... high. A taxi will last 4 years if bought new on average, by that time it will have covered close to 200,000 miles, on a 20,000 euro Avensis, that is a total loss of that cash over the period. A diesel Avensis or Corolla for example will have services maybe up to 5 times a year, several sets of tyres, brake pads, timing belts (expensive on a diesel). These cars take a hammering.

Working conditions are as bad as can be, assaults by drunken idiots being common. Arguing with Drunks who try not to pay, people who do a runner, out in all weather sitting in a car is no fun. People puking, stinking of drink. Breakdowns 20 miles from anywhere in a storm. It's not great fun. You have to work all the times everyone else is out which means you miss all the fun yourself. It's soul destroyingly boring.

Some cabbies, my dad among them, who bought a cab before deregulation (mortgaging the house in the process) couldn't be said to have taken a risk. The courts of this country and hence the government have already recognised that a plate is worth a certain value, by ordering the value halved in divorces, and charging inheritance tax (on an asset up to 100k I might add) in cases of death, to say that it was a false ecomonmy nothing to do with the government is somewhat of a porky (and not the first in recent times either), so I reject that argument.

Compo claims will only affect about 200 drivers. 2000 applied only. Mostly these were ones like my dad who kept their affairs above board and gave correct figures to the tax man the other few thousand didn't dare because they didn't want to draw any attention to themselves.

For example only 5 cabbies in Waterford applied for compensation, all of these bought plates in the 12 months before. Who knows if they'll get anything. They should because they have been disenfranchised. You see the various court rulings have established the value of the plate, even the local corpo used to charge a transferral fee on a plate and approve sales. Now some drivers (a small number) have been left with 100,000 Euro debts, whilst new drivers buy their for 5000, bottom line is that these drivers cannot compete on a level playing field. Their ability to make a living has been ruined.

Income has gone down on average in my dads books by about 45%. Costs have remained the same, he pulls a profit of about 200 Euro a week, once repayments have been made, (he is 50 something so he has about 10 years to pay this 100k off before retirement, you don't want to be working till 75 to pay off a debt to avoid losing your house do you ?, so he cannot lower the payments and extend the loan duration.

The figures I am quoting here are real by the way, not speculation. On that cash you would hardly be booking the next flight to the bahamas. In fact you won't be going anywhere.

This is Waterford tho', revenues were never that high because charges are low.

For example, A 3 mile journey through rush hour traffic will set you back about 6 Euro 50 in Waterford. In Dublin you are talking at least that. In Waterford there is no extra charge for extra passengers, airport charges, baggage etc...... so fares are a whole lot cheaper.

However, and I lived in Dublin 8 years, I think that the Dublin cabbies are taking the piss. Costs are extortion up there, so I can entirely empathise on that point. Also getting a cab in a busy period is hell on earth.

Getting back to deregulation, has it worked ? No.

Simply put, previously one cab would be on the road all day (if you owned a cab you worked 5 days yourself and got someone to drive for you 2 days for example), so the number of cabs is finite. Now the old cabs who have debts to repay still try to do this and you will see them on the streets all the time. However during busy times, I have not noticed any increase in the number of Taxi's available, thats not to say there isn't one, I just haven't seen it yet. I occasionally do see taxi ranks overflowing in slack periods during the day when you could always get one previously anyway. The trouble is that with lower costs for new cabbies that they can pick and chose when they go out to work, make however mcuh they want and go home). The old school ones, had huge plate charges to pay off and kept the cars on the road all day and night (not possible anymore, cannot get a driver these days, anyone interested in driving gets their own cab), even the greedy old beggars who had long since made their money rented out the plate to guys who had to work day and night or at least keep the car on the road as long as possible to make sure that they could pay the plate rental and make money too.

And why shouldn't they make money ?

I did a Bsc and Msc in Computers, I make a very nice living ta very much for sitting on my arse in a comfy private office typing these things on the web. Why shouldn't they make cash, in my dads case, he works 90 hours a week to try to make ends meet. Cabbies work longer hours and terrible times too, they work as hard and harder than most of us unskilled or not. I'm as skilled as they come, but I am not a snob about it. It doesn't make me better than anyone else.

seamus

Originally posted by neuro-praxis
What we should actually be complaining about is the public transport system in this country; not the taxis.

Heh, yeah, i was just a tad annoyed My main problem is that most of my friends live around Knocklyon, whereas I live in Lucan. So going out locally with them involves 2/3 days of planning how I get out there, who do I stay with, how do I get into work the next day........It pisses me off that being spontaneous forces me to have to fork out for taxis........

Quigs, while I do have sympathy for those cabbies who forked out loads for plates and got boned, that's just tough. Deregulation had been on its way in for quite a while. Cabbies who payed more than actual value for a plate were ripped off, but that's life. That was their choice. If the government had suddenely dropped the price of plates and flooded the market, then compensation would be due, but they didn't, they just flooded the market with plates that cost the same.

Sorry if I came across as snobby, it was just my ranting. Feck it, I'm still unskilled until the end of next year, so if I left college today and went and got a job, I wouldn't expect to earn much until I gained some skills. Driving a taxi is one of those great jobs where you get out as much as you put in, but as you said, Dublin taxis are just extortionate. A cabbie can make a healthy profit in Dublin by just going out on weekends. Hell, I want that. I should probably state now that I really only mean Dublin taxis, cos I don't go down the country much.......

For example, let's say a major player came into the Irish telco market tomorrow and took 40% of eircom's subscribers. What would happen? Would eircom lower their prices and work harder to compete, or would all the telco's gather together and increase their prices to maintain their profit? The latter is essentially a cartel, and is exactly what Dublin taxis have done...........

Shinji

Actually, taxis in Dublin aren't that bad, cost-wise. Last time I was back I took three taxis - from the Airport into the city centre late at night, from Connolly Stn out to Dundrum at about 10pm ish and from Dundrum back up to the airport at about 10am on a Monday morning. The airport fares were about 25 Euro apiece, and the other one was about 14 - which is actually pretty reasonable for a cab, as far as I'm concerned. I had no trouble finding or booking a taxi, the drivers were helpful and polite and in general, I was left wondering whether I was in the same city I used to live in a couple of years ago...

Deregulation has worked. You can get a taxi with ease, they're acceptably cheap, the cars are mostly well-maintained and the cabbies have learned some manners. It'd be nice if big, comfortable cabs became the norm like in London, but in the absence of that, I really can't find anything to complain about with the Dublin taxi service any more.

Oh and Seamus - while I'll argue until I'm blue in the face about the tube drivers in London holding the city for ransom because they want to be paid £30k for an unskilled job, you're off your bloody rocker if you think taxi drivers should be earning E18k - less than £12k in Sterling. That's barely a wage you can live on.

seamus

Originally posted by Shinji
Oh and Seamus - while I'll argue until I'm blue in the face about the tube drivers in London holding the city for ransom because they want to be paid £30k for an unskilled job, you're off your bloody rocker if you think taxi drivers should be earning E18k - less than £12k in Sterling. That's barely a wage you can live on.

OK, I'll cave on that. I was basing it on a standard labour job here, but driving a taxi is effectively self-employment, and the hours required to make a lot of pickups are the unsocial ones. I don't think they suffer more from drunken fools than say a bus driver or counterboy in McDonalds do, except that it's their cab that it happens in. Plus they can choose who they let into their cab.

Plenty of people in this country live on less than 18K. It's all about how comfortable you want to be.

Shinji

By the way, I think you'll find that since you have to (a) be able to drive and (b) know the streets of dublin like the back of your hand, driving a taxi is not technically "unskilled labour".

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

amp

Quigs Snr, thanks for giving us that excellent perspective but please refrain from calling people names. You're points are more than enough.

neuro-praxis

Yeah Quigs, your post was mighty informative (bar the old dick comment).

Shinj, gotta retract my own comment of agreement about it being unskilled and join your side. I'd probably pump up taxi-driver to semi-skilled. That's fair enough I'd reckon. I mean, it's not a trade or anything. You do, however, have to pass an exam to get a hackney or taxi driver qualification.

Slutmonkey57b

Deregulation would not have been half as hard on the drivers had the NTDU not spent the previous 5 years blocking all attempts to introduce a reasonable amount of plates on a phased basis.

I'm sorry but regardless of the figures there is NO reason why money should be taken out of my pocket to hand over to someone who has made a speculative private investment that has not worked out to be quite as valuable as they hoped. Do I get free money if I invest in stocks that go down? No.

The reason that not many drivers have applied for compensation is that the NTDU wants a larger fund to be distributed to all the drivers regardless of whether or not they have any justifiable need for it.

The value of plates was not determined by the courts or the government - it was determined by simple market economics. In the case of a divorce, the value of an asset is determined simply by what the estimate is of its value through private sale - regardless of what that asset is. The idea that the government has some moral obligation to the drivers because their assets (as self employed entreprenurs) are subject to things like inheritance tax is simply more bullsh!t. By that logic, the government owes me money if I buy a faulty mars bar because I paid VAT on it. Bullsh!t bullsh!t bullsh!t.