Is this it?

segadreamcast

Is this the end for IOFFL? Is it all over? Have we reached all our objectives?

Judging from what we've seen develop in the last few months (i-stream, Esat's new package, UTV's new package...) you'd think so. Looking from a more realistic angle though - it is far from over, though we'll probably never have the same drive behind us again, or the same amount of publicity on us.

By all means, don't get me wrong. I, like so many of you, am ECSTATIC, that we're making headway. However, IOFFL as an organisation must continue applying pressure for nationwide high speed internet access - cable, sdsl, adsl and such. We must also continue trying to get pure flat rate (though UTV come pretty feckin' close!)

For many of you, this will be where you perhaps part from IOFFL - if so, I bid you farewell and hope you have an enjoyable time on the internet from here on out. But don't forget how hard all the people around us worked to get you that. Many sleepless nights, meeting, protests, rallies and such have brought 1,000's of people together in an effort that a few years ago may have been deemed 'impossible' by anyone thinking about it.

Thanks a lot for taking your time to listen to me - if you'll be leaving our presence, perhaps take a moment to say cheers to the mods or whatnot on this thread. They deserve it at the very least. *Cough cough* I'm sure they accept free drinks.

hmmm

As you say, we're making headway but that's it. UTVs new product is great, and I hope they meet their targets so as to prove demand is there. Great to see Esat moving too.

We're still a long way off from having an acceptable service (what I define as simply having what the rest of Europe has). As long as the wasters in Eircom have any part in provision of my phone service, I'll be here.

De Rebel

Originally posted by NoelRock
Is this the end for IOFFL? Is it all over? Have we reached all our objectives?

.........

Thanks a lot for taking your time to listen to me - if you'll be leaving our presence, perhaps take a moment to say cheers to the mods or whatnot on this thread. They deserve it at the very least. *Cough cough* I'm sure they accept free drinks.

I wouldn't be hopping on the hossies and riding into the distant sunset just yet. With EirClogged saying things like it will take a further 5 years for I-Slow to be rolled out to 70 % of the POTENTIAL audience i'd have said that there was plenty of scope for pressure groups

A few likkie drinkies might help sustain morale for the battles ahead !

Dangger

First of all thanks NoleRock.

Is this the end for IOFFL? Is it all over? Have we reached all our objectives?

I'm afraid the answer is no!

Today was a good day, thats for sure. I'd be lying if I did not admit that I knew today would be a good day a few weeks back! But I guess its just one of the perks of being involved with the committee.;)

A lot of the contact we have been having of late has been unreported by us. This may seem odd, but with so many meetings a lot of the time we are just bringing people who can make a change, up to speed on the situation and offering to assist in further their education on the facts.

Only the other day IOFFL did a snail mail shot out to the many businesses that we feel have been far too quiet on the current situation.

Why isn't Ryanair piping up and ensuring that as many people as possible can go online whenever they want to book flights?

We have the second highest ownership of games consoles per capita (next to Japan), yet Microsoft cannot offer the online element of the X-Box in Ireland - where some of it has been developed!

Where is all the noise about tele-working?

Come on Buy4Now lets hear you? Et vous Msr. Quinn as in Super?

Anyway...... before I go off an a rant, we're working away still and we still need your help.

Bonecollector and many others took on the task of addressing Eircom's advertising issues with the ASAI. Look what happened - INCREDIBLE! So what if the press did not have a field day (no surprise some might say) but its on the record and its been worthwhile.

Today Bawnboy's recently posted reply from the Minister for Communications was dropped into the hand of Mary Hanafin's opposite number David Stanton FG, personally, by me in Leinster house, with a few choice remarks. People are starting to listen and look for guidance in addressing the issues.

After the press launch of the UTV product today in the Gresham myself and ScepticOne went to see the Competition authority to discuss the pricing of the I-Stream product and the potential problems for pricing a FRIACO offer from Eircom.

So as my dear old granny used to say - "Let's keep the pot boiling!"

segadreamcast

"We have the second highest ownership of games consoles per capita (next to Japan), yet Microsoft cannot offer the online element of the X-Box in Ireland - where some of it has been developed!"

And a shame it is too! Being the second XBox owner in Ireland *ahem* - I can't play Halo with my far inferior rivals in the states. They accuse me of being a chicken, I accuse them of voting for Bush. It all works out - but still, unfair!

By no means am I leaving - I won't be leaving this place until every single commitee member tells me to 'bog off' - or eircom cover every square inch of this country with state of the art internet access.

Dustaz

From www.irelandoffline.org
Objectives

• Universal flat rate (unmetered) access to the internet for all users.
• Complete Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) by Eircom.
• Universal access to broadband services for all users.

Ireland Offline has been incredibly succesfull in bringing about partial achievement in these objectives. At the end of today however, thats exactly what it is - Partial.

We have off peak limited flat rate.
We have partial unbundling (How many lines? 100? less than that?)
We have 1000 users out of almost 4,000,000 on broadband.


Were not going anywhere

segadreamcast

Good ^_^ I'd miss Dustaz and his Lionel Hutz avatar too much...

Dustaz

[Hutz]
"Thats why your the poster, and im the ......thread...locking...guy"
"Moderator?"
"Thats it!"



[/Hutz]

segadreamcast

Hehehehe

Next we'll see Dustaz having a fetish for bourbon...

spongebob

A few years ago the Brits thought we were systematically building one of them oul advanced digital economy yokes and used to come over to see what we were doing right...

Now we are desperately trying to get back to the future and it seems so so far away really.

IoffL will continue in existence and from the hit count in the past few days it is as relevant as it always was.

M

stormkeeper

I intend to stay here till the end, until we have completed all our objectives and as David said, there is still much to be done, and I intend to help in whatever way I can until our goals are met.

vinnyfitz

(with all the above)
But we are only starting.
The people who contribute to this forum are the ones who understand why connectivity is important. Sadly this is still a tiny minority of the general population.

I don't think its over the top to say that Ireland's competitiveness and society depend on vastly greater efforts towards our aims.

For sure some people will leave satisified once the reaction to todays news brings more and more competition in the offpeak narrowband sector. That is fine - and maybe some of them will come back soon after looking for more - after all this is where the campaign is centred. Today's post rate is evidence of that.

Anyway those committed to the big picture will remain involved here. We have learned to work together we share an important objective and over the last few days we have scored several palpable hits. New contributors are joining all the time.

I reckon "this is not it ". Rather it is a sign that consumers count. Lets keep the ball rolling.

Urban Weigl

While a lot of progress has definitely been made thus far (I don't think this would have been possible without the great guys and gals at IrelandOffline, keep up the good work!), Ireland still lacks truly affordable flat-rate internet access, as what's available now is unfortunately still:

-- Limited to off-peak access only (e.g. evenings);
-- Expensive compared to offerings in other countries;
-- Overly restrictive terms and conditions.

Don't get me wrong, this is a giant leap in the right direction, and I hope to be one of the first to sign up! But it's still extremely limited for many SMEs who would need to use the internet during the day, or for families where the hours spent online add up quickly, as well as teleworkers who may be required to be connected to the internet during the day.

I think we'll be able to say that IrelandOffline's objectives in terms of flat rate access at least have been reached when:

-- 24/7 flat-rate access packages are available for around EUR 20-30 or less, based upon true FRIACO.

Just my personal ramblings. I'm NOT a member of the IrelandOffline board.

SkepticOne

As Urban Weigl and others point out, what is still lacking on the 56k and ISDN front is FRIACO, i.e., a wholesale flat rate service from Eircom. Without FRIACO, ISP offerings will still be expensive and will have restrictive terms of use. There will also be a lack of choice in the market.

While FRIACO still won't enable true 'always on' services over PSTN, it will allow a much greater degree of flexibility in how ISPs deal with over-use.

dahamsta

I'm in for the long haul anyway. I may not be a committee member any more, but I'll keep battling away in my own way until IrelandOffline's targets are reached. We're still a good way off imho...

adam

CharlieMac

'Well let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet'

The Wolf Man. Pulp Fiction

From where I'm sitting, UTV Internet's new service while welcome, is little different to packages that were available before from existing operators. UTV have just been smart enough not to call it 'Surf no limits' and then say 'ah no lads, when we said no limits we really meant 'limits that we hope you won't notice.'

Yes it's flat rate, but only up to the limits.

It's not broadband.

The ADSL service operated by eircom is so flimsy that most people's existing telecoms infrastructure is not able to avail of it, no matter where they're located.

So in short, some minor successes for which much thanks but your country still needs you boys and girls.

Keep up the good fight.

crawler

This is all just the start of better things....it's over when

* LLU Complete ( and Sub LLU )
* DSL at < €40.00 per month from eir...eir... ( Cant say it since yesterday , I've forgotten who they are )
* ntl and Chorus offer broadband for <€40.00 per month
* FRIACO ( REAL REAL FRIACO ) in place
* WIFI - Bluetooth - 802.11x widely available & affoardable

I think it will happen - the announcementas yesterday will create demand for faster products - DSL / CM - so come on OLO's and ntl/Chorus - SEE THE POTENTIAL!!

It will happen....

matthiku

It is definitely not over.

You may be interested in a correspondence I had with the Operations Manager from Ennis Information Age Research team, based on a brief article on their website:

A Broadband Internet Access Trial is being conducted with 100 households in Ennis to evaluate state of the art broadband Internet access. This latest offering from eircom Ennis Information Age Town is described as "always on" high speed Internet access and will be provided free of charge for a six month period

My letter:

On your Website is a report about a DSL trial project in Ennis.
Is there any further information available, like test area, roll-out time and further progress? And is there still any possibility to take part in this project in any form? I do live in Ennis on the Tulla Road and would be highly interested. I already have ISDN, but it's still too slow for all of my family's needs.
The lack of broadband Internet access with a decent flatrate and nation-wide availability is, in my opinion, a major setback for the Irish community and its access to the world of information out there. Ennis may be an exception to a certain degree, but it's still frightening that you have to watch the clock when you are online. Working from home, for instance, is basically impossible with the available Internet access speed. A change here could reduce the traffic pressure and help parents spent more valuable time with their family by being more flexible regarding working hours. I am actually wondering why it is necessary to evalutate broadband access in Ireland while in other countries they are already using it since years! You should take a look at www.irelandoffline.com or www.eircomtribunal.com to find out that this is not just my view.

His answer (quoted with his permission):

Your email reflects the growing demand throughout Ireland for broadband access to the Internet. This demand is very strong in Ennis, where there is a very high PC penetration rate (85%) among the town's households as a direct result of the Information Age Town project. Over the past two years, the Ennis Information Age town project has provided broadband ADSL access to 140 users covering businesses, schools, library and community organisations. In February of this year, we offered 100 residents an opportunity to use broadband access (using VSDL) to the Internet free of charge for a six month period. The feedback from all of these users is that broadband always-on access to the Internet has a significant impact on how people work, communicate and interact. Unfortunately, we are unable to include any more people in either the ADSL or VDSL trials as we have reached full capacity.
We have asked both eircom and Esat/BT for their timeframes for the roll-out of commercial ADSL in Ennis but were unable to obtain scheduled dates except that it was likely to be in the second half of next year.
Regards
John Culligan
Operations Manager

Hannibal_12

.....I certainly the hell hope not. I know alot of people here wanted flat rate (or partial flat rate) but my only concern was and still is broadband. We are still pathetic compared to most other countries but yes this was a step in the right direction. Monopolistic, greedy and arrogant €ircon need groups like us to at the very least inform people at how they are being ripped off and ideally to force them to change it. I know I will continue at every opportunity to make sure people know just where we stand.

Congratulations to IOFFL though on an outstanding job with limited resources. I think the number of views on the UTV thread gives a good indication of the following that has been accumulated and I sincerely hope that UTV is a roaring success here partially for the people that have worked so hard for it but mostly because of my loathing for €ircon.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

vinnyfitz

Originally posted by daveirl
I worry that by the time we have DSL there will be some kind of new technology, so we will still be years behind [/B]

Your constructive technological advice and strategic lobbying input will continue to be welcome. Thanks for all your help so far.

OHP

Originally posted by dahamsta
I'm in for the long haul anyway. I may not be a committee member any more, but I'll keep battling away in my own way until IrelandOffline's targets are reached. We're still a good way off imho...

adam

That may be soo. But to even have gotten this far would not have happened without all the work/help/late nights/arguements/and time that IOFFL have put into this. So i would just like to say a big Thank You!!! to everyone in IOFFL for all the work you and your members have done. It might have been a long battle, but the rewards are going to flow in now I can feel it!

Well done ye lot,

OHP