Photography

bugler

Hey. I only look at this board periodically, but i don't see too many photography related topics. Anyway, I've always kinda had an inclination to go into it in some way, but have yet to start. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who does it as a hobby from these boards and from an irish perspective, as in equipment prices etc. I'm not interested in being a sports photograhper, wedding photographer or anything like that What I'd like is for someone to point out a good camera to buy to get started, I really like the idea of black and white photography(why does it look waaaay better? ) Err anyway, I'm sure I'll think of more questions if anyone replies..

wiensta

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&AvdID=&CatID=&GrpID=&p=23985&s=fp

I just bought this camera, Im a beginner too. Its a great camera, (you need a computer) but theres no flash, it has a focus tho, and its tint lens can come in handy. It records cool video clips too

Stephen

I have a sony DSC-P30 digital camera, and I love it It has a flash and up to 3x optical zoom, and it goes up to 6x with crappy digital zoom. Uses sony memory stick media (only comes with a measly 4mb stick, but I have a 64mb one now). It really chews through batteries at an alarming rate unless you have the sony li-ion battery for it. Got that cheap in new york a couple of months ago

Its taken some very nice pictures for me, here's a few samples:
(I've recompressed them with paint shop pro to bring the filesize down a bit, which has also reduced image quality somewhat)

Brownshill Dolmen, Carlow
Kilkenny Castle
Steps at rear entrance to St. Canice's Cathedral, Kilkenny
Times Square, New York City
Empire State Building, through the streets
Reflective windows on some building in NYC, looks nice
Sunset in New York, a bit blurry as it was taken from a moving bus

I love my camera

Samson

Originally posted by bugler
What I'd like is for someone to point out a good camera to buy to get started, I really like the idea of black and white photography(why does it look waaaay better? ) Err anyway, I'm sure I'll think of more questions if anyone replies..

I would not recommend starting off with a digital camera if you want to get into black & white photography as a hobby.
In my opinion, you would be better off buying a used manual Canon or Nikon (A1, AE1, F1, F2A etc.) with a few quality prime (non-zoom) lenses.

Buy a shitload of film, a book or two) and just start experimenting (maybe do a photography course too).

Good luck.

bugler

Yeah I wasn't really thinking of a digital camera to be honest. Shows how tech obsessed the boards.ie members are .

How much would one of those cameras cost, Samson? And is taking photos in b&w just a matter of film choice or what?

logic1

Originally posted by bugler
Yeah I wasn't really thinking of a digital camera to be honest. Shows how tech obsessed the boards.ie members are .

How much would one of those cameras cost, Samson? And is taking photos in b&w just a matter of film choice or what?

One thing you should know about b&w photography is that it's gonna cost you a hell of alot more than colour film to get developed.

Best thing to do is alot of colour photography first, get all the skillz you need then start taking B&W's when you're not ruining as much film.

.logic.

Samson

Canon A1 plus 50mm lens for £135.00 sterling (plus about £10.00 P&P).

Extra lenses:
wideangle 28mm F2.8 FD @ £60.00 sterling
not so wide 35mm F2.8 FD @ £50.00 sterling

I could not really recommend a camera shop here for this sort of stuff because prices and choice are unfortunately not nearly as good as those to be had by buying from across the water.

I recommend:
www.ffordes.com (I have bought lots of stuff from them)
www.mxv.co.uk (I am a repeat customer here too)

That's a good point logic has made about the cost of having developed colour film versus black and white.
However, if you really got into it you would probably be doing your own developing eventually, so why not start immediately, it's suprisingly simple and a great buzz to take that film off the spiral and see you images.

As far as film goes, use Ilford HP5, it's cheap, good speed and easy to develop and produces good results.
Alternatively, if you don't want to start messing about with developing yet but still want cost effective black and white developing you could try Ilford XP2, this is a black and white film that can be processed as if it's a colour film.

bugler

Good stuff, thanks for the advice guys. I'd be interested in getting into developing my own stuff yeah, if not straight awy then eventually. How much would all the equipment involved for that cost?

Logic, I didn't know you were such a learned man :P

Sibeal

logic's got photography coming out his ears what with listening to me going on about it for the last 5/6 years
and his dad, and ... (you get the idea)

havok*

was gonna post up a new thread, then i seen this.

I'm looking to by a new slr camera, something which can take good quality stuff and is pretty easy to use (i'm a totally newbie to this)
Price range is around 500 euro.
Is there any camera's which have both automatic and manual control? i.e u can put it to auto focus ect, but have the option of fidling with zoom, focus, shutterspeed ect ect for when u get some skillz

alastair

you might consider the canon eos 300. nice compact slr with a variety of semi manual and manual options. A bit plasticky compared to proper manual old school slr's, but what isn't these days?

havok*

http://www.eos-magazine.com/System_EOS300spec.html

looks pretty sweet i must say. cheers alastair.

Any1 know the best (cheapest) place to buy them?

also on lenses are there standard sizes for all cameras. i.e would a 50mm lens fit on all slr camera's or do u need to get ones pasific to ur camera?

havok*

looking @ a few reviews, looks like the eos 30 might be a better buy

Sibeal

the 300 is a very good camera tbh you wont use half the features in a 30 or above - the main advantages in the higher priced models are eye focusing and they tend to get quieter as they get more expensive. the 300 from my experience has all he features u'd need (i dont use half of the program modes - they main advantage is auto focus when u need it) and its getting much cheaper than it was when i bought it (bah) try cons cameras in the grafton st arcade or ebay - know loads of ppl who got good deals from there (or the buy & sell - if ud get a 2nd hand one) the eos 300 is called the rebel 300 in the states (if ur looking on ebay)

Samson

Originally posted by Sibeal
...try cons(sic) cameras in the grafton st arcade or ebay - know loads of ppl who got good deals from there...

havok*,

Please do not buy from Conns, I have always found them to be expensive.
My advice for buying a camera would be this:
Instead of spending extra money on a Canon EOS 30 consider a Canon EOS 50E (if you can find one) which was the previous model, or spend the extra on a better zoom lens than the one that would normally come with the EOS 300.
The lenses that are normally packaged with the EOS 300 are crappy, light-weight, poor quality.
You would be much better off telling the salesperson that you want an EOS 300 with a 24-85mm F3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens (very good lens for the money) and you want the best deal possible.
I would say Gunns (Camden Street) or Dublin Camera Exchange (Georges Street) would be best for prices if buying in Dublin.

Major plug:
Alternatively, you could buy just the EOS 300 body from whatever shop and buy the 24-85 lens from me, as I have one which I never use (bought it in Paris last year as an emergency purchase and only used it whilst there) and would be prepared to let go at a very reasonable price.
I could even throw in a bit of a tutorial too!

However, all plugs aside, that lens would be a far better option than the normal Canon "kit" lenses and would probably serve you better than the extra features on the Canon EOS 30.

havok*

samson,
yeah the reviews i've read all say the same thing about the lens that comes with the kit. I was thinking of getting a standard 50mm lens.

Is there much differance between zoom lenses and standard lenses ?

And what on earth do the numbers after the lenses mean?

24-85mm F3.5-4.5 USM, 50mm F1.8 USM

was thinking of getting the 30, but its too pricy over here. I'll most likly be getting the 300.

All in all, I think getting the eos 300 , with one good zoom lens and one good standard lens would have me pretty much set for whatever i wanted to do with it (Hard core Porno !!!:p)

Samson

Originally posted by havok*
And what on earth do the numbers after the lenses mean?

24-85mm F3.5-4.5 USM, 50mm F1.8 USM

These numbers refer to the maximum open aperture of the lens.
The smaller the number, the bigger the aperture.
The bigger the aperture, the more light the lens will take in.
Therefore, if a lens has a maximum aperture of F1.8 it will be capable of allowing 2 extra stops of light in compared to a lens with a maximum aperture of F4.

How this relates to taking photographs:
Two settings are required on your camera to take a picture;
shutter speed (amount of time film is exposed to light)
aperture (amount of light allowed onto film).

So, if we are taking a photo and the meter on the camera gives a reading of F8 1/60 sec.
This means that the lens aperture will be F8 (sort of mid range) and the film will be exposed for 1/60th of a second.
If however, we needed to use a shorter shutter speed because we are photographing a very fast moving subject (an F1 racing car for example), we cannot just adjust the shutter speed without making allowance for aperture also.
So if we set the shutter speed to 1/1000th of a second this is a decrease of 3 stops (1/60, 1/125, 1/500, 1/1000), we must increase the aperture (let more light in to balance with the shorter duration of light) by 3 stops which will give us F2.8 (F2.8, F4, F5.6, F8).

Sometimes on a zoom lens you will see two F numbers quoted, this is because the maximum open aperture effectively changes when the lens is "zoomed" so on the 24-85 lens the max. aperture at 24mm is F3.5 and at 85mm it is F4.5.

I hope I have not confused you too much.
Have a read of this (Phil does a much better job than I ever could):
http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/
Particularly:
http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/exposure

Originally posted by havok*
All in all, I think getting the eos 300 , with one good zoom lens and one good standard lens would have me pretty much set for whatever i wanted to do with it

Exactly.

Sibeal

hey Samson - id really be interested in seeing some of your pics - post up a link?

logic1

Originally posted by Samson
Originally posted by Sibeal
...try cons(sic) cameras in the grafton st arcade or ebay - know loads of ppl who got good deals from there

Any particular reason you find the need to be so pedantic or does being a prick come naturally?


.logic.

Samson

Originally posted by logic1


Any particular reason you find the need to be so pedantic or does being a prick come naturally?


.logic.

Do you address Sibeal or I?
If (as I suspect) it's me, why don't you fuck off and leave the personal comments to people you actually know?

Sibeal, no offence was meant.

Samson

http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/bag1.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/beachsneaker.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/hapennybridge2.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/image1.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/rita1.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/tree.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/untitled.jpg

logic1

Originally posted by Samson


Do you address Sibeal or I?
If (as I suspect) it's me

Your powers of deduction are astounding, Sherlock.

why don't you fuck off and leave the personal comments to people you actually know?

I didn't make any personal comments, I simply observed you being a prick and called you a prick you prick.

Now don't let the blood pressure get too high and try to have a nice day little boy.

.logic.

Samson

Originally posted by logic1


Your powers of deduction are astounding, Sherlock.



I didn't make any personal comments, I simply observed you being a prick and called you a prick you prick.

Now don't let the blood pressure get too high and try to have a nice day little boy.

.logic.

When I first read this post earlier today (before it was deleted) I had decided that I was going to come up with some nasty retort.
However, as it was deleted I was spared the effort.
Now I see that you have gone to the trouble of re-posting your insult (which says a lot by itself), I really don't see the point (I'll spare my blood pressure as you suggest).
Congratulations, big boy.
You win.

logic1

Originally posted by Samson


Congratulations, big boy.
You win.

Woohoo. Oh and I deleted it myself earlier, I was trying to spare you the anxiety, I suppose it does say alot, I'm just too nice a guy.

.logic.

rob1891

All in all, I think getting the eos 300 , with one good zoom lens and one good standard lens would have me pretty much set for whatever i wanted to do with it (Hard core Porno !!!)

I got my eos300 with a 28-80mm 3.5-5.6f USM lens. I'd suggest you go for something like that first. The 50mm good with all it's f stops, but having to buy another zoom lens will be a drag! They are so much more expensive than you think they should be, you could spend the money on hookers to make your porno with!!!! .... ew ew ew WHAT do you want to zoom in on?!?!?!?!

I see on www.ffordes.co.uk (thanks samson!) they're selling them with a 28-90 USM lens (329.99 stg), obviously equipment gets better and better. I think they are super handy for framing stuff up, getting a little wide angle, and doing a small amount of zoom, mine has definitly kept me from shelling out many euros on a proper zoom lens.

I guess there is a balance, most of what you take can be done with the 50mm, and with it you have the extra light flexibility that you'll probably want more when you are experienced than a bit of zoom. But as you are starting off, the medium zoom lens is so convinient and easy to use I'd definitly go with that, + the hookers, never forget the hookers.

Rob

havok*

did some pricing yesterday.

Turns out the 24 - 85mm F3.5 - 4.5 USM lens is nearly twice as expencive as the camera (around 600 euro)

I can get the body and a 50mm F1.8 lens for 460 euro.

Methinks i'll just forget about getting a zoom lens for a while

Samson

Originally posted by havok*
Turns out the 24 - 85mm F3.5 - 4.5 USM lens is nearly twice as expencive as the camera (around 600 euro)

I'd sell mine for half that.

havok*

totally broke and starting college next week. It might be a while b4 i'll be considering investing in a better lens

Monkey

What college are you going to Havok ?

havok*

Doing a one year course in Art, Graphics and Printmaking Down @ ballyfermot.
Starting today actully:)

I little bit weary tho, I only got the course cos of past (computerised) graphic design expeirance and a l33+ refrance from my last course down in ballyer. I cant draw a sraight line, gonna be playing catch up all year...:(

Corko

Where can you buy APS black & White film & where can you get it developed.

I am just getting into Photography - Has anybody any ideas regarding a good (but reasonable) camara?

havok*

I got my B&W film in slaters on o'connel st, not sure if they do developing tho. Conns defo do, there developing lab is over in hibernian way (off dawson st)

The_Conductor

Corkco- are you serious about looking for black and white APS?
I don't think such a thing exists.
I think you're going to be using good old 35 mm like the rest of us.
The second hand camera shop around the corner from the Dublin Tourist Office off Wicklow Street have some on special (because its coming up to its BB date).
If you want cheap B&W film buy it in from France- it costs 80-90 cent a 36 Exp role.

Ps- If looking for good value s/h equipment the different college camera societies usually have a couple on their notice boards. I got a Fujica XRS with a 28mm lens and around 30 different filters and prisms for £120 Irish, and a 60-200mm zoom lens from Camera Vision in Lucan for IEP 70.

The_Conductor

Ps- you can develop bog standard Illford B & W on colour paper. Fix the negatives for a little shorter than normal.

If you're not developing it yourself Boots on Grafton Street will do it for you- it takes them around a week (no they don't have an express service), and it costs a small ransom.

Better bet is to bribe some of the AVC people in Trinity or UCD

Zanza

Originally posted by Stephen
Its taken some very nice pictures for me, here's a few samples:
(I've recompressed them with paint shop pro to bring the filesize down a bit, which has also reduced image quality somewhat)

Brownshill Dolmen, Carlow
Kilkenny Castle
Steps at rear entrance to St. Canice's Cathedral, Kilkenny
Times Square, New York City
Empire State Building, through the streets
Reflective windows on some building in NYC, looks nice
Sunset in New York, a bit blurry as it was taken from a moving bus

I love my camera

I liked the reflection, but I wish that all the windows there were closed

Originally posted by Samson
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/bag1.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/beachsneaker.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/hapennybridge2.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/image1.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/rita1.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/tree.jpg
http://www.photo-ireland.net/samson/untitled.jpg

Are these yours? Anyway, I really loved them, but the tree picture didn't appear full..just the top..

Thank you guys for sharing..

I like taking photos, I find myself good at it but where I am at, there is no future for it I guess..:(

Ah well, this is life :rolleyes:

Can't wait to see more

Samson

Originally posted by Zanza
Are these yours?

Yes.

Originally posted by Zanza
but the tree picture didn't appear full..just the top..

I see that, I'll upload it again tonight.
Don't know what happened to that one.

Samson

For some reason I can't get it to work properly on that wedspace.