Picture messaging (MMS)

Gaz

Ok so it looks like we will have this soon, the nokia 7650 with built in camera is finally on the way (or has been released ??)ANd other MMS equiped phones have been launced.


My question is does anybody know how we will be charged for this ? Will MMS require GPRS and as a result cost a fair bit to send pictures ..lets say 10-15kb a picture at 2c a kb seems expensive compared to a normal text message !!!! And i suppose that means we will have to spend the same amount to recieve a picture ????

Anybody know how this is going to work ????

Tom Dunne

You would imagine they would set a fixed price for MMS. It would be a major deterrent to non-techy people to be charged by the size of the MMS. If you add voice to pictures the size could (and cost) could go over 1 Euro. People are not going to pay that for a message.

This is the beauty of SMS - fixed size, fixed cost.

Personally, I am waiting for the Sony/Ericsson P800. As soon as it becomes available, I am ditching my R380.

Anybody want to buy an Ericsson R380?

seamus

I'll check it out when I'm in work next, but I doubt Vodafone or O2 have even prepared for it's deployment here. The phone manufacturers are all jumping the gun a little. Like that Nokia ad where the guy is sending a music file to his mate - even at full GPRS speeds, it would take about 5 mins to transfer - assuming it's uninterrupted. GPRS will not penetrate the mass market in any country for at least 5 more years.

As for MMS - a 10-15kb picture message wouldn't be too bad. Considering most normal phones run at a max 9.6kbps.

I'd say it'd either be charged at a per-kb rate for the sender (MMSMO) and at a fixed charge for the receiver (MMSMT), or it'll be flat-rate with a limit on mesage size. Of course that's kind of against what MMS is.

LoBo

T-Mobile in the uk have launched their MMS / picture messaging service already.

They are offering Nokia 7650 and SonyEricsson T68i (with camera attachment) at significantly reduced prices, and have a picture message package you can add to your bill.

Details at http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/Dispatcher?menuid=msh_picmes_land

Subscribe to the T-Mobile picture messaging service
A charge of £20 per month (in addition to your price plan) connects you to the service and lets you send and receive scores of images (up to 10MB). It also gives you unlimited access to our online picture messaging centre and image gallery.

I was asking O2 Ireland about MMS a couple of weeks ago and they said they were thinking of launching it 'in the next couple of months'. Vague enough .. to be any time really...

I hope Irish networks go for this w/ cheap MMS & well subsidised camera-enabled handsets - it could be great.

Fidelis

Originally posted by seamus
I doubt Vodafone or O2 have even prepared for it's deployment here

Where are you getting this information from? Disinformation more like it...

It's being tested but it's not working at consumer standards just yet. Max size per MMS will be 30Kb (e.g. 15Kb image + 10Kb sound file + 5Kb of text) and at present, it looks as though they'll be charged per message, irrespective of size.

Nokia 7650 could be going for at low as €400 on contract w/Vodafone.

seamus

Originally posted by Fidelis
Where are you getting this information from?

I'm not getting it from anywhere. That's why I said, I doubt (personal opinion) and I'll check it out when I'm in work next (getting the actual facts).

Any idea on what the charge will be per message? Can't see it being slightly cheap anywho.......

Cond0r

It's being tested but it's not working at consumer standards just yet.

Fidelis you work for vodafone right?

O2 are testing it too.
I think the official timeline for it indicates its arrival for customers in early november, I could be wrong though.

Where you working seamus?

Also... the t68i is available on O2 already, I would assume the camera attachment will be available when mms is launched.

C.

netman

I've been to Croatia a few months ago, and they've had MMS since may this year and it's absolutely free until the end of september. That is, on all the networks, and it's not a trial - it's free for all users, including those that roam in the country.

Oh yeah, the limit is 50kb, and supports GIF and JPEG images, MPEG4 movies and audio files in MP3, MIDI, AMR/EFR formats.

Sounds pretty sweet. Didn't have a mobile with a camera though, but the japanese tourists were going mad for it.

Fidelis

Originally posted by Cond0r
Fidelis you work for vodafone right?

Yea. There's a bit of pressure to get it out on the market but I think more time is needed, 2 months - minimum. It's still a bit buggy, but works 90% of the time Testing it on different handsets; T68i, 7650, Sharp GX10 etc. takes some time.

Originally posted by netman
the limit is 50kb

MMS size is network specific, 50Kb is nice & big, shouldn't think the Irish operators will be so generous though.

*7650 supports .ram files too, if I'm not mistaken.

Cond0r

Originally posted by Fidelis
Yea. There's a bit of pressure to get it out on the market but I think more time is needed, 2 months - minimum. It's still a bit buggy, but works 90% of the time Testing it on different handsets; T68i, 7650, Sharp GX10 etc. takes some time.

Yeah I'd tend to agree with this. Tis the same in O2. Can't say I like the 7650 as a phone though, too big.

C.

flywheel

T68i is a great phone and the camera attachment is snug and fits the form factor great, screen let's it down a bit though in that it can only do 256 colours so any photo you take and view on the phone is washed out and grainey, but email it off and it comes out grand on the other side, the snap on camera is a great idea and the handset is still light and small enough with it attached
(you can get the T68i on O2 in any O2 stores and on Vodafone through the CarphoneWarehouse) The camera attachment can be got online, haven’t seen it about in town yet.

the 7650 display is much better with 4096 colors, although it is a chunky handset, email and wap browser are both great, hopefully the apps you can install will increase, got a couple of games for it but not much more out there yet. bluetoothing to the PC is not a smooth experience but once a link is established it's grand, hopefully some patches will solve that. the camera works fast, the phone's interface is more PDA like, although some menu are a tad too long to be comfortable with the joystick. having no memory expansion and no bluetooth headset profile support are it's main shortcomings (it arrived sim free in Europe last week)

no MMS yet so to send them on the move had to e-mail the photos off the phones. they all come through fine, anyone with a digital camera will need to chill a bit, no 4.0 MeagPixel shots here! max you get is a 640x480 shot, and you better hold the phones steady and have the light behind you. you can also send the images via infra-red or bluetooth, both worked grand (the T68i needs an extra step to copy the phones from the camera memory to the phone memory first though)

both suffer indoors if there isn't enough light, both also lack a 'mini mirror' beside the camera lens. when reviewing some of the new Japanese picture phones some had a little circular mirror stuck beside the lens on the back of the phone, this allowed you to make sure you were in shot (as you can't see the screen facing the other way), also one model even had a flash attachment you clipped on the side when needed, others allowed you to twist the camera around on the hinge to face in or out as needed

Brian G

flywheel

a good article this morning from Reuters:
Camera Phones Trim Japan Cellphone Shipment Slide

would expect the operators here will be hoping the take-up will be as big here, they have to get the price right though. also compared to the Japanese camera phones, the T68i screen let's it down, the 7650's size let's it down, japan's camera handsets were slim and compact with good screens

only the FOMA (3G) camera phones were on the large size, but you could video conference on them so hey, they were still cutting edge....

Brian G

Fidelis

Originally posted by DubWireless
T68i is a great, screen let's it down a bit though in that it can only do 256 colours so any photo you take and view on the phone is washed out and grainey

Don't particularly like the T68i myself. It's nice an light but the large icons/text make the screen feel incredibly small. The grainy images let the phone down aswell. The joystick also feels very cheap, as if it would break after a few months.

the 7650 display is much better with 4096 colors, although it is a chunky handset

I love this phone. It's not that big in all honesty. The screen is lovely and the camera is sweet. Even writing SMS' is a joy - they're written on a copybook style lined paper type sheet... sorry, can't explain it!

both also lack a 'mini mirror' beside the camera lens

The GX10 has this little 'mirror'. It works well, so does the camera, not as good as the 7650 though. The Nokia has a 3.5mm lens, whereas the Sharp phone only has a 1.8mm lens. Unfortunately, the GX10 is a horrible, horrible phone.

flywheel

Originally posted by Fidelis

It's not that big

it's a bit is that a phone in your pocket or are you *very* happy to see me kinda size

Even writing SMS' is a joy - they're written on a copybook style lined paper type sheet... sorry, can't explain it!

yeah the whole messaging functions are great, sms, email, hope to try the MMS features soon

attached is a screenshot of the sms screen to show your point

atb,
Brian G

seamus

Vodafone announced its launch yesterday. I don't have the press release right here, but I will on Monday, or Fidelis could post it up. It doesn't contain any real info though except for when (I think it said August but maybe September).

Fidelis

August 8, 2002
Vodafone Ireland Announces Plans for the Launch of its
Picture Messaging Service

8th August 2002 – Vodafone, Ireland’s leading mobile operator, following the conclusion of a number of successful technology trials, today announced that it will launch a commercial Picture Messaging Service (MMS) in autumn this year.

Vodafone’s Picture Messaging Service will enable the operator’s customers to send colour images, audio files and picture messages between mobile phones and to any email address accessible by phone, PC or PDA. The service has been successfully trialled using the Vodafone network in Ireland over the past number of months. A range of colour picture images and audio files have successfully been sent between handsets. The launch of the new service is expected to dramatically increase the amount of data services used by Vodafone’s 1.7m customers.

“The planned launch of our Picture Messaging Service (MMS) is a significant development over the existing hugely popular SMS text service as it will allow customers to communicate by combining text, colour images and audio all in one message. The successful technology trials to date are a significant development for Vodafone.

“The huge popularity of SMS messaging, with an average of 5m messages sent each day, means that uptake of the greatly enhanced service is expected to be very high in the Irish marketplace. The Picture Messaging Service is as simple to use as sending a text message and will be available to both consumers and corporate customers this autumn” said Fergal Kelly, Chief Technology Officer, Vodafone Ireland.

Using Vodafone’s Picture Messaging Service, it is now possible to take a photograph with a mobile phone and send it to and from any compatible destination accompanied by text and audio. A range of phones will be available that contain a digital camera to capture images as well as the ability to record audio clips and enter text messages of up to 30,000 characters. Messages can be sent and received by other compatible phones or over the Internet.

“Our Vodafone colleagues in Italy, Germany, Greece and Portugal have recently launched picture messaging and report considerable excitement and success from their customers. We firmly believe that picture messaging will equally appeal to our customer base and we are confident that picture messaging phones will top the Christmas gift lists this year,” added Mr. Kelly.

In Japan, 4 million J-Phone Vodafone customers, equivalent to one third of its customer base, have bought camera phones over the past year. The rapid adoption of their picture messaging service (called sha-mail) has made it the fastest growing new application yet seen in mobile telecommunications, considerably outperforming SMS.

The Picture Messaging Service is dependent on newly developed handsets with all phone manufacturers confirming to Vodafone Ireland that sufficient numbers of handsets will be available for retail at the time of commercial launch in autumn. Handset prices and tariff details will become available at the time of commercial launch.

flywheel

also fyi - O2's MMS release from June 18th:

http://www.mmo2.com/docs/media/pr_020618b.html

Brian G

sceptre

On a light note, I slotted my sim card into an 8210 yesterday and got a picture message (the old non-MMS kind) that my girlfriend sent me over a year ago. I suppose the 6110 received it but didn't display it. Progress of technology while I'm not looking and all that

(it was a nice luvvy message - just as well we're still going out)

Tom Dunne

According to the 02 press release, the handsets should be between 150 and 220 Sterling.

From the O2 press release

indicative pricing has been set between £150 and £220.

Lets hope the prices here are in the same range. If that is the case, you could see a lot of these phones ending up at the bottom of Christmas trees this year.

(Oh my God - it's August, I'm in the US, in the desert, and I'm already thinking of what my wife can buy me for Christmas...I must be working too hard.:D )

XbLaDe

Taken from enn:

These advanced SMS services will be launched across all of O2's networks (Ireland, the UK, Germany and the Netherlands) this autumn. Moreover, the firm said that it expects MMS messages to cost pay-as-you-go users around EUR0.47 (STG0.30) per message, more than double what the firm charges for SMS messages. There is also a tariff plan whereby contract customers will have a certain number of monthly MMS messages allotted to them, and will pay for each message beyond that limit.



Content to compose MMS messages will be available through O2's Web portal and the firm plans to launch a range of multimedia text alerts for customers covering sport, entertainment, gossip, news, travel and weather. Many of these value-added services will be provided by O2 content partners such as Arsenal and Bayer Leverkusen football clubs, Hallmark, Ringtones Online and Warner Bros.



"We are not going to be the first to market, we are going to be the best to market," Erskine said at a press conference for the launch of the new services to the company's 17.5 million customers.



O2 also said it expects that "the appeal of MMS services and devices will drive the uptake of GPRS medium-speed mobile data connections," which would mean important new revenue streams for operators and content providers. Thusfar, the take up of 2.5G (GPRS) has been generally disappointing in Europe for most mobile operators.




Nokia will be O2's preferred technology partner for the launch of the service, under the terms of a letter of intent signed by the two companies. As such, most of O2's approved MMS enabled phones are Nokia devices, including the Nokia 3510, 7650 and 6610. The Ericsson T68i and the Sharp GX-1 will also be available for customers.


The company has not said what pricing will be for the handsets but expects costs will be between EUR235 and EUR345, depending on sophistication and model.



In another announcement, O2 published trial prices for its third generation (3G) service on the Isle of Man, giving users in the UK, Germany, the Netherlands and Ireland some idea of how much they can expect to pay for UMTS services.


Four new tariffs have been launched, all of which are aimed at corporations, small and medium-sized companies and consumers who use the Net frequently. The initial prices are set to gauge "what customers want and how much they are willing to pay for the various services," said Mark Briers, director of 3G at mmO2.


Typically, a residential customer wishing to surf the Web, download music, play games, send and retrieve multimedia e-mails from a 3G handset or device will be charged around STG1.40 per day, or STG44 per month.


Business customers can expect to pay just over STG80 per month and small and medium companies between STG60 and STG70. Customers who only access Manx Telecom's 3G WAP Portal, called Prontonet, are likely to spend around STG9 per month.


The most basic option will allot 1MB of data to users per month and the most expensive option allots 100MB. Charges for use beyond those limits range from STG0.50 to STG2 per MB.

trap4

Anyone know if the 30Kb limit on MMS is going to be upped? It didn't annoy me previously but now that I'm trying out FoneBlog it is. I have no problem posting to my FoneBlog with the default small size on for the photo but when I go for large size, to get a decent size photo on the webpage, I have to use the Basic quality for my camera settings.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Jim
http://mmsmemo.blogspot.com

jesus_thats_gre

Eh you might be able to get away with 38kb on Vodafone.

BigMoose

The 30kb limit will be up'd at some point in the near future....

jesus_thats_gre

It is unlikely that it will be in the near future. The Sharp GX10 has a limit built in to the handset of 30kb. While this handset is the most common on the Vodafone network, its not gonna change by much.

BigMoose

It's being worked on at the moment, but I cant remember when it will be officially (or unofficially for that matter) available.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by BigMoose
It's being worked on at the moment, but I cant remember when it will be officially (or unofficially for that matter) available.

I doubt its even a matter of it being worked on. Whether the network allows more that 30kb is irrelevent, as anything up to 75% of MMS customers have a Sharp GX10. As I stated already, the software on the GX10 prevents messages greater than 30kb being received or sent. You will be able to send messages of up to 38kb if your handset is able to however. Regarding what you said is being worked on, are you confusing that with the doubling of traffic capacity for MMS (not a big secret).

BigMoose

Err, I'm kind of working on it If your handset cant handle the size that is sent to you, it will be delivered to your message library.

Stephen

Is it still not possible to send proper MMS's between different networks?
i.e. the recipient receives a regular sms with a URL in it to view the message.

that sucks


also, O2 sent me a letter today, apparently I never send anybody a picture message so they've decided to give me 200 free mms for use between now and the end of january. woo.

Faltermyer

Meteor MMS can be up to 60kb.

Which is good for me since I have a SE T610 on which Pics can go as high as 70 or 80kb sometimes.

BigMoose

I think Voda and O2 can send MMSs to each other now?? If not then certainly soon.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by BigMoose
I think Voda and O2 can send MMSs to each other now?? If not then certainly soon.

So your working on the project to increase the capacity that Vodafone enforece on MMS, which suggests ur pretty well involved in their service. Yet your not sure if they can send MMS cross network to O2? Sorry but that confuses me..... Probably sounding a bit petty there but I dont mean too,.

You can send MMS messages cross network to O2.

BigMoose

I work as a techie in VF but dont know when things are commercially released - this is due to lack of being arsed to find out. Does that help the confusion?

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by BigMoose
I work as a techie in VF but dont know when things are commercially released - this is due to lack of being arsed to find out. Does that help the confusion?

Sound, didd't mean to sound bitchy.. Is the same 30kb limit the case with the GX20 do you know?

BigMoose

No bother You get a lot of people that talk out of their arse on these things! VF is a big enough place for me to get far from the full picture of projects too if I sound vague! I dont know about the GX20 but will try and find out.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by BigMoose
No bother You get a lot of people that talk out of their arse on these things! VF is a big enough place for me to get far from the full picture of projects too if I sound vague! I dont know about the GX20 but will try and find out.

I know only too well..

trap4

Originally posted by BigMoose
I think Voda and O2 can send MMSs to each other now?? If not then certainly soon.

Maybe it's old news at this stage but I just noticed on the Vodafone website where it says -

"Capture the moment with Vodafone live!, and share it with your friends. Send Picture messages to other Vodafone live! mobile phones or 02 mobile phones or any e-mail address for only 29c inc. VAT. "

~~~~~~~~~~~
-Jim.
http://mmsmemo.blogspot.com