Surf <some>limits

ObeyGiant

Esat are soon to announce their new flat-rate-ish package. Flat rate, with limits.

Pricing:
30hrs p.m. - EUR15
60hrs p.m. - EUR25
90hrs p.m. - EUR35

(posted on behalf of a friend who works in Esat, who is too much of a pussy to post this here)

Mr E

Including or excluding VAT?

- Dave.

strat

ok lets just take it as this is true...


WHAT A FUCKING CON


FLAT RATE ?!?!?!


HA ! :rolleyes:

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Mr E

Hey, if it is true, its cheaper than what we have at the moment.
And if it covers peak times, then its even better.

Its a step in the right direction....

- Dave.

ObeyGiant

. says:
yo yo yo yo - including or excluding vat?
<anonymous informant> says:
including i assume
. says:
and does that cover peak-rate times as well?
<anonymous informant> says:
peak isn't included
. says:
yr _certain_ about peak not being included?
<anonymous informant> says:
aye

ando

Originally posted by ObeyGiant
Esat are soon to announce their new flat-rate-ish package. [/SIZE]

This strongly contrasts with another hot topic at the moment. 'Soon' as in christmas ?

phreak

what about people that are still on nolimits? can they keep what they still have?

aidan_dunne

This is a load of b0llox! Which of the words in this sentence do Esat and Eircom not understand:

WE... WANT... 24... 7... FLAT... RATE... INTERNET... ACCESS... FOR... BETWEEN... 20... AND... 30... EUROS... PER... MONTH!

Christ, it's not that difficult to understand, is it?

Okay, I know this will be of benefit to some people who are paying extraordinary amounts on their phone bill each month for per-minute access and for those unfortunates who got chucked off the original No Limits package, but, to me, it's just not good enough.

We are screaming out for 24/7 access at a cost of between 20 and 30 euros a month. Off-peak isn't worth a damn to those who use the net during the day, businesses or people who work from home. And the prices they are planning to charge for between 1 and 3 hours access a day is stupid. For 3 lousy hours a day they will be charging more than double what some UK ISP's are charging for 24/7 access.

Esat, Eircom and the ODTR had better resolve the whole flat-rate/FRIACO issue straight away and give us €20-€30 per month 24/7 access before this year is out or, I swear to God, I won't be held responsible for my actions! :mad:

And I'd also like an answer to Phreak's question, if anyone knows. Where do the existing No Limits customers stand with regards to this? Are we all going to be chucked onto one of these new packages and the current No Limits scheme scrapped? Any info would be helpful, folks!

Dangger

Well I see this as a giant leap in the right direction.

It is a start towards only one outcome. If they are willing to bet the house on a second launch of such a product, you can be sure they will fight for what they need to offer a true flat rate service. Don't forget who they are owned by and their actions in their own market.

D-Generate

Sounds to me like pre-pay internet. What they are doing is like calling Ready to Go phones flat-rate.

Urban Weigl

This isn't flat-rate internet access, it's pre-paid access. Granted, it's still better than what we have in this country at the moment, but it still makes us the laughing stock.

Anyone who calls this flat-rate ought to be shot.

To be fair though, it's not Esat's fault there is no FRIACO in Ireland. It's Eircom, the ODTR and the government who are to blame.

hmmm

Isn't 1891 access something like 1c a minute? So we're saving perhaps 10-20% on a limited number of hours? This is the great leap forward? Esat need to rethink this one, I don't see a compelling benefit.

*speculation with no facts to back it up*
I would predict that No Limits users are going to be told to sign up for these, so you're screwed guys *end speculation*

aidan_dunne

It might look like a step in the right direction but to "outsiders" this still makes us look totally backward and slow. Look at what they are offering; 3 hours access a day for more than double what users in the UK are paying for 24/7 access. For God's sake, you could get DSL from some companies in the UK for what Esat are proposing to charge for their 90 hr/month package.

Okay, granted it is a small, small step in the right direction but I still think it's a bloody disgrace that we are going to be paying double what they pay in the UK for an eighth of the time online.

This had only better be a stop-gap solution before full, proper FRIACO is launched at the end of the year. And I mean this year because we cannot enter 2003 without full FRIACO. If we do, there will be hell to pay! :mad: This had better be the last year without it.

ando

Isdn ?

yellum

As Dave said its a start. Its better than what everyone else in the market is offering isn't it ? Lets hope they don't leave it at just that though.

Aidan stop being so dramatic, we're all pissed off at the current situation.

Rez-N-8

Originally posted by Dangger
Well I see this as a giant leap in the right direction.

It is a start towards only one outcome. If they are willing to bet the house on a second launch of such a product, you can be sure they will fight for what they need to offer a true flat rate service. Don't forget who they are owned by and their actions in their own market.

So does this mean that it is true then Dangger??

ando

anyone know if isdn is going to be included on these packages ?

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by yellum
Aidan stop being so dramatic, we're all pissed off at the current situation.

I'm not being dramatic. I'm pointing out how this is just not good enough in 2002. We should have 24/7 flat-rate internet access in this country, right THE F**K NOW! It is 2002, for God's sake, and we still do not have this. This in a country that is supposed to be one of the major technological centres of Europe (or so the f**king ba$tards in Leinster House would have you believe!). It's an absolute disgrace and packages like this, whilst a small step, are just not good enough in 2002. This is the kind of thing we should have seen introduced about three or four years ago and we should all have 24/7 flat-rate by now.

This is just not bloody good enough in 2002 and I'm so frustrated I could f**king kill right now! For f**ks sake Eircom, Esat, ODTR, government, if any of you are reading this, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!

I'm off to take a Valium! :mad:

Dangger

So does this mean that it is true then Dangger??

I had not heard of it at all until I read this thread. So I have no official word on it, nor have I heard it mentioned in the past.

Tellox

Which of the words in this sentence do Esat and Eircom not understand:

WE... WANT... 24... 7... FLAT... RATE... INTERNET... ACCESS... FOR... BETWEEN... 20... AND... 30... EUROS... PER... MONTH!

Flat Internet and Euro.
This is pretty good for people that cant get their hands on ntls one-way network I guess...but to me, who has 192/240hrs of flat-rate access a month at weekends....well, it sucks tbh. If I ever get into online gaming again,this'd be the package to go for.. still, 90hrs is a bit measly. make that 150hrs and they can sign me up

BoneCollector

regarding the 90 hours a month etc.. i think i did show that flat rate in the uk was not a flat as we would think it tobe HERE.

As long as its access 24/7 and not just an off peak product, it should be a step in the right direction. if it is an off peak product its not going to address the real issue of internet access. It has to be available 24/7 but not on 24/7

Jorinn

Originally posted by ObeyGiant
Esat are soon to announce their new flat-rate-ish package. Flat rate, with limits.

Pricing:
30hrs p.m. - EUR15
60hrs p.m. - EUR25
90hrs p.m. - EUR35

(posted on behalf of a friend who works in Esat, who is too much of a pussy to post this here)

Hmm, isn't ntl's cable modedm service €35 a month with 512kbps download speed and permanent connection, Esat are ripping the piss entirely if they plan to offer that. If this is true then esat are a laughing stock.

dahamsta

Aidan, calm down for gods sake, you're preaching to the converted. It's very, very simple: UK-style flat-rate dialup Internet access is /not/ going to be rolled out in Ireland overnight, just like it wasn't rolled out overnight in the UK. And it's not just down to politics and greed, it's also down to a very simple technical detail: The network can't take it. It's going to take time, so there's no point in getting het up about it. Especially - and I can't stress this enough - when it's a rumour. In this business, you don't drop the scepticism until we get an official announcement. And even then, you retain a little bit, because they're a bunch of liars, plain and simple.

Anyway, if anyone's going to have a hissy fit in here, it's me.

adam

Xian

Originally posted by dahamsta
It's going to take time, so there's no point in getting het up about it. Especially - and I can't stress this enough - when it's a rumour.

Some rumours, to be honest, are put out to guage public interest. This particular rumour should therefore be welcomed, as Dave has pointed out, as a step in the right direction. That said, once flat-rate wholesale interconnect is added to Eircom's RIO, then we can safely break open the bubbly, not before.

Anyway, if anyone's going to have a hissy fit in here, it's me.

Now when have you ever had a hissy fit, adam? (gratuitous link to show that it IS, contrary to other rumours, still alive)

hmmm

Originally posted by BoneCollector
regarding the 90 hours a month etc.. i think i did show that flat rate in the uk was not a flat as we would think it tobe HERE.

From that same page " If your usage is consistently higher than 120 hours per month, you will be asked to upgrade to Freetime Anytime Business. Freetime Anytime Business has a user to modem ratio of 5:1 and costs £24.99."

A whole £25, that's a killer

Delphi91

Probably doesn't make much sense to ask this question given that we only have a "rumour" at the moment, but a thought/query crossed my mind when I saw it:

I assume that the €35 is the cost of the 90 hours online time? I mean that I won't have to be paying for the calls as well.


Mike

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by dahamsta
Aidan, calm down for gods sake, you're preaching to the converted. It's very, very simple: UK-style flat-rate dialup Internet access is /not/ going to be rolled out in Ireland overnight, just like it wasn't rolled out overnight in the UK. And it's not just down to politics and greed, it's also down to a very simple technical detail: The network can't take it. It's going to take time, so there's no point in getting het up about it. Especially - and I can't stress this enough - when it's a rumour. In this business, you don't drop the scepticism until we get an official announcement. And even then, you retain a little bit, because they're a bunch of liars, plain and simple.

I'm sorry folks, but I do get really worked up over this as I feel it's a service that we are entitled to. It should not be seen as a privilage, it's a necessity. The telecos in this country still seem to think that the internet is just a toy and that it's a privilage but nowadays people rely on it both personally and professionally. I think that internet access, particularly access that everyone can use at any time for a fixed fee without having to constantly look at the clock, is just as important to this country as our road and rail networks. It's a pity the likes of Eircom can't see this.

If some of you feel that I'm getting totally worked up over this for nothing, I apologise. But it is something I feel very, very strongly about and I want to see it resolved as soon as possible. We are already a laughing stock and so far behind other countries we can't see them ahead of us unless we use a telescope at this stage, and that's why I feel we cannot waste another second in getting FRIACO sorted out in this country. This is not about Eircom's profits anymore, in my opinion. This is about the whole country and the effect the lack of such a service is having on the country as a whole. For God's sake Eircom, in the interests of the country ("in the national interest" as they used to say on Bull Island!) see sense and introduce FRIACO.

Just for the record in case you didn't know, I'm a No Limits user and, straight away, I'm sure some people would be inclined to say, "But, sure, you have flat-rate (or a semi-flat-rate!) package. Why do you care about everybody else getting it?" Well, I have No Limits and myself and the remaining customers are constantly under the threat of having our service scrapped and we don't want to see that, for one thing. FRIACO would see that we could still use our service and probably get to use it during peak times as well. But the main reason is that I have a flat-rate package and I feel very strongly that everybody should have access to flat-rate packages as well. I might be expected by others to just bugger off and not give a damn or turn around and gloat about having No Limits but I don't because I think we should all have it, without exception.

So, if it seems I get totally worked up over this whole issue, I'm sorry, but that's just who I am, that is how I feel and that is what I'm going to keep pushing for. It's just that sometimes my emotions overcome me and I get so angry and frustrated I feel I'm going to have a heart attack over it! lol. Maybe I feel too passionately about all this, I don't know, but I don't think I'll be able to change until FRIACO is a reality.

vampyre

Not a rumour. I was told about the first two packages at the end of June by a director of Esat but he stressed at the time the products were under development and could be altered. I infered he hoped some miracle would occur during the forthcoming negotiations that would alter things but not likely.

VeeEmmy

Well... I am one of the Wailing Banished from "No Limits" and I'm online approximately 90 hours per month. My phone bills are running usually more than €100 per month (95% online time), so €35 per month sounds pretty great to me.

I would PREFER 24-7 true flat rate (I'm a yank and I haven't forgotten what it's like!!), and will still push for it, and/or venture into the WAN world, just for spite. For now, I will jump on that offer in a heartbeat if (if if if if) they really offer it.

Saving approx €800 per year matters to me.

When yer starving, it mightn't be wise to refuse the crumb even though you need a nice big plate of meat and potatoes with the trimmings. Take the crumb, and demand more still.

Perhaps this little move (if true) could offer an opportunity for €ircom, ODTR et al to see that there actually IS a demand for reasonably priced internet in Ireland.

I think a lot of folks who mightn't have been interested in the £20 (€25) Surf "No Limits", might go for the €15/mo... and the more who use the internet at home, the more who will come to realise, depend, demand etc etc.

I think it is a good thing. Not a "good enough" thing, but a good thing.

Snaga

Originally posted by hmmm
Isn't 1891 access something like 1c a minute? So we're saving perhaps 10-20% on a limited number of hours? This is the great leap forward? Esat need to rethink this one, I don't see a compelling benefit.

I would assume that, as with the nolimits service people will be dialing a number which is not chargeable. i.e. it doesnt show up on the bill and you only pay the package charge. (didnt want to say 'flat rate charge' )

vampyre

Anything, even 4 hours a month of peak time. Please somebody make my life a bit easier, I have endless reconnects and all I want is to send and check e mail within office hours and not bankrupt myself. Is that so terrible?

_Kaiser_

perhaps a silly question (but please bear with me - I had a very late night ) but what will happen if/after you exceed the limit...do you then get charged on a per-minute rate for the additional time? And how will they/you be able to monitor that?

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by BoneCollector
regarding the 90 hours a month etc.. i think i did show that flat rate in the uk was not a flat as we would think it tobe

I'd argue with that... It's just that one of the flat-rate ISP's called BT Internet decided to warn people about cutting them off if they were using the Internet really excessively (over 11 hours a day). However, there are dozens of ISP's over there without any restrictive policy like this, so who cares). As an example, a friend of mine in the UK who I have known since 98 has been using his FRIACO package for almost 24 hours a day the past year, and he got cut off from one ISP once, but that was it.

He also could get ADSL in his area for under €40 a month, but says that's too expensive, so he's sticking with his dialup. But that's another story. :rolleyes:

ando

will isdn be supported by these packages ? anyone

sceptre

Originally posted by ando
will isdn be supported by these packages ? anyone

I'd be a bit surprised if it didn't

(NoLimits supports isdn doesn't it?)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by sceptre


I'd be a bit surprised if it didn't

(NoLimits supports isdn doesn't it?)

I can't see why it shoudn't be included but the nolimits package didn't support ISDN.

sceptre

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I can't see why it shoudn't be included but the nolimits package didn't support ISDN.

Thanks for correcting me on that one Mike (wasn't too sure)

pencil

Esat are soon to announce their new flat-rate-ish package. Flat rate, with limits.

Pricing:
30hrs p.m. - EUR15
60hrs p.m. - EUR25
90hrs p.m. - EUR35

30hrs p.m. - EUR15 - So useless they'd want to be throwing it in for free if you signed up with them.

90hrs p.m. - EUR35 - 35EUR for 3 hours a day, they can 'shove it up their ass for nothin' I'll stay with logging on & off continuously all day everyday.

Do Esat actually think they are introducing a 'new', 'exciting' product. They're many ways to skin a cat, but he end result is always a skint cat - this is still a rip-off.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - will somebody do something about our telecom market.

It's getting to the stage where everything in this country is joke.
The millionaires in the south of France have a cheaper cost of living F.F.S.

Dangger

There has been no confirmation of such a product.

Dustaz

Originally posted by pencil

90hrs p.m. - EUR35 - 35EUR for 3 hours a day, they can 'shove it up their ass for nothin' I'll stay with logging on & off continuously all day everyday.

This attidude amazes me. If esat were to offer this product, WHY would you NOT take it?

On one hand you give out about giving eircom too muich money and on the other hand you INSIST On giving them more than you need to.

your getting around 15 hours for free there (if its an evening thing). Dont want it? fine , dont get it. Dont complain about the amount you do pay then.

pencil

Dustaz, because I'd still be clock watching.

Give me ASDL for 60 eurons a month like the rest of the civilised world.



Okay, I'll admit to over-reacting a bit, but damn it why do we Irish have to take it up the butt from everyone. It's not a bad offer & I'd be tempted to take it, but it's just another monthly outgoing that I can't afford for half the service I want (& deserve, EU free market & all!)

Nuphor

Hmph, this fall's a long way short of the mark. But, I guess it's better than nothing.

I'm guessing FRIACO negotiations with Eircom either didn't go ahead full-stop, or Esat were once again fobbed off. Esat's apparent decision to only let the offer apply to off-peak times is a disappointment to say the least, but one must realise that Esat aren't in any way to blame for the current state of affairs.

If only the ODTR was given the same power's as that of the British counterparts.

Ah well. Guess this cements my decision to leave this quagmire as soon as I've finished college.

vampyre

This package was being mooted by Esat before the FRIACO negotiations got under way. Daytime access please Esat. It is not a nebulous idea, it's a necessity.

Tellox

I've been debating this topic over msn for the past few minutes, so can somebody clear it up for me?

PPC claims I can use both ntl and iol packages, without being charged extra by ntl. Can anybody give me confirmation on that?

hmmm

Tizlox - yes (but). What you need to do is sign up for NTL as your phone provider - it then costs you €20 (or close to that) a month. I use their number at weekends.

During the week I dial a 1891 (IOL).

ABE (anyone but Eircon)

skrobe

dunno about u but this for me(and many working from home) is a gaint step backwards. im on nolimits and i presume that'll be gone when/if this product launches. anybody know if they are releasing a peak product?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by skrobe
dunno about u but this for me(and many working from home) is a gaint step backwards. im on nolimits and i presume that'll be gone when/if this product launches. anybody know if they are releasing a peak product?

Yes. In fact, this sort of tiered plan was one of the things IrelandOffline asked for in its initial meetings with ESAT given the fact that they had kicked off 2,000 users and were no longer offering nolimits to new customers.

Nolimits is not marketed by ESAT anymore but, as you say, it would be a bad if they shut it down altogether. This would indicate that they are no longer interested in FRIACO and so don't mind losing flat-rate customers.