what really ****es me off

azezil

i hate the way in this country it only matters if u hav a qualification on paper!

i'm a college student n in some cases i know more than my lectures! but does ne 1 care! not at all, they hav a piece of paper! eg. in operating systems one day our lecturer couldn't partition a hard drive using NT4, i mean come on how simple is that!!!

when i ask a question about comps which isn't covered on the cylibus they sit there scratching they're heads!

its not on there should be some kind of scolorship scheme, if a canidate shows potential they should be trained for the specific job n cut out all this extra crap they throw at ya in college!

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"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

Loomer

Fight the power!!

[fist]de_psIRE

y do i get the feelin i know u azezil?

DadaKopf

maybe your downfall is that your spelling and grammer is apalling.

c'mon, fight the power

Loomer

What ****es me off is muppet moderators that delete posts that point out how stupid they are - if anyone gets to read this before it is deleted I say we castrate them

SantaHoe

I agree, they won't even let you pour coffee in this country without a fk'ing coffee-pouring degree.

It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all outta' gum
...or something.

mayhem#

Mmmm, funny that.
Coming from Holland, one of the things that struck me about this country is that I could get as far as I did without any diplomas, certificates or whatnot....;-)

[SKT]Raven

Yup this country blows in that respect ive had to do a year long course(nearly finished) in information technology so i can get me piece of paper and get into the company i want.Wouldnt mind but i could prob teach the teacher its annoying and frustrating as hell i say we mirv em all!

azezil

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by [fist]de_psIRE:
y do i get the feelin i know u azezil?</font>

am i'm don't think i know u!???

oh n another thing i work in a cyber cafe on weekends n i approached the manager about how open the whole system is, i suggested we set up user accounts n installing a fire wall! she looked at me like i had ten heads r sumtin! "ah how would i do that?" ****in twit. she came in all smiley to me last week n told me she set up her first comp... i am not impressed!!!

(this is just turning into a good auld ranting session! LOL)

---

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

azezil

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mayhem#:
Mmmm, funny that.
Coming from Holland, one of the things that struck me about this country is that I could get as far as I did without any diplomas, certificates or whatnot....;-)</font>

really! well maybe there's one or two exceptions but in general they just look at ur cv n c what certs/diplomas ya hav n judge u on that...well in sayin that experience go's a long way but to get ur foot in the door its awfully difficult without the piece of paper!

---

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

TwoShedsJackson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mayhem#:
Mmmm, funny that.
Coming from Holland, one of the things that struck me about this country is that I could get as far as I did without any diplomas, certificates or whatnot....;-)</font>

And how far is that?

Azezil (named after a demon?), what you need to do is rise up and smash the State. I'm right behind you.

azezil

maybe i will, maybe i will!

---

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

Blitzkrieger

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by azezil:
i'm a college student n in some cases i know more than my lectures! </font>

I know the feeling. This morning I asked my lecturer if a particular few lines of code was messing up my real time systems project and he said yes. I asked him twice in the course of the conversation and he said "It's defintly in those lines". Silly me, I had forgotten that the problem existed before I added those lines

Baz_

BOLD blitzy setting traps like that... tehe

azezil

the error may hav been there all along but the extra two lines could of been wrong aswell! .... just a thought!

---

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

Shiminay

heeheehee - it's always cool making a fool outta your lecturer like that. We had a Delphi class in third year and the lecturer had some way of doing the thing which was a half a page long, but I demolished into 2 lines of code. Class

As for "bits of paper" - experience will wor too, but only if you've got *LOADS* (minimum 5 years) in other jobs (not just fluffing around with something yourself at home.

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>

[honey i] violated [the kids]

Draco

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by azezil:
i'm a college student n in some cases i know more than my lectures! but does ne 1 care! not at all, they hav a piece of paper! eg. in operating systems one day our lecturer couldn't partition a hard drive using NT4, i mean come on how simple is that!!!</font>

*sigh* It's hard if you've never done it before. Remeber Computers is *very* broad. Do you know how to partition a disk under Solaris? Or how to get a beowulf cluster working? Or understand how TCP/IP exactly works? Or write a compiler from scratch? Lectures tend to be good in a narrow field, while you are taught a broader course. Once you leave college you'll end up concentrating on a few facets of computing and some kid 10 years down the road will be disgusted that you don't know something *simple*.

Draco

Fair enough - he's not prepared and that's criminal. But if you don't have the patience to sit and read stuff you eon't get very far. there is alot of stuff out there that is counter intuitive and you won't get unless you read the documentation. College is supposed to also teach you how to do your own research as well. I know plenty of people in my course who are not "naturally" good at computers, but got a much better degree that me. Does it bother me? Nope, 'cause at this stage the degree doesn't matter, my real world experience does.

azezil

i made that point cause i had never partitioned a hard drive b4 at all! n hes tryin to show us how to do it n he can't figure it out!....my main point is anyone can study hard n get a piece of paper but some ppl hav a natural ability to do things but don't hav the patience to sit down n learn off a load of notes!

p.s. formating and partitioning a hard drive is part of our course and he's been tryin to figure it out for 3 weeks! meanwhile i never done it b4 n got it on the first day

---

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"



[This message has been edited by azezil (edited 22-03-2001).]

Greenbean

So what if you know more about something than your lecturer? Only human. Draco made the relevant points. Its now a cliche to hear students coming back to ucd computer science course and tell the dean "I've never used anything that fVcken course taught me". Its not unusual for final year students to leave ucd not knowing how to use linux, or how to use sql offhand; but one thing that is learned is how to learn these things quickly. All the theory is there, the rest is just considered machine/os/programming language specific stuff. I mean in object orientated programming we praticed in java, but no one questioned things when told to do the same things in c++; the language aint important just the ability to apply the Object orientated theory.

I have to admit though, I'm looking forward to considating into a few specific languages consistently so I can actually gain some usefull experience - at this stage its all theory - being clever with c++ ain't my forte at the moment. Biggest problem with a computer science degree is if you followed the natural progression you would simply move into a postgraduate position, computer science != computer engineering; which is what most computer science graduates end up doing.

WhiteWashMan

hey, when some of you go out to get your driving licence, i hope you feel as stupid as you make these other people out to be when people tell you learner dirvers to get of the road.
have i made my point as well?

mayhem#

Lads,

OK, just to make things a bit clearer. I came over from Holland in 95 with a car full of **** (no not that kind...) and £20 in my pocket. No diplomas or certs to speak of, just leaving cert and a load of different jobs over a 6 year period, not exactly the best career prospects. Now I run my own business and am doing allright, i'm not filthy rich but make a few bob, live in a nice house (rented!) and drive a reasonable car (Ooh yeah, became a married man and a daddie too...). The point is that I do something I like and am able to make a living doing so...

Jak

People are not born with a natural ability to operate and manipulate computers.

If you knew something your professor did not, then congratulations. But an isolated incident where you succeed and another fails does not make you the better.

Many people have the impression that college is about learning a simple trade skill. While this is true to a certain extent, it is also about broadening your interests, developing your social ability and learning to apply yourself without someone pushing you.

A person with good qualifications in any degree shows that they have the ability and drive to work and apply themselves to a variety of areas. While you may have these qualities without a degree, there is no way for an employer to notice.

JAK.

Ps. Hence you have people with Doctorates in History working at management level in merchant banks etc.



[This message has been edited by Jak (edited 28-03-2001).]

Shiminay

Here's a thought...

College doesn't necessarily teach you what you need to know in the real world, but it teaches you how to learn the skills you'll need...

eg: I started a job and learned the fundamentals of PHP, Perl and MySQL in a couple of weeks as a result of having learned a big lump of languages in college and I became familiar with programming concepts and methodologies. All I had to do was learn a language's syntax and I was sailing!

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>

[honey i] violated [the kids]

[This message has been edited by Kharn (edited 28-03-2001).]

havok*

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mayhem#:
Lads,

OK, just to make things a bit clearer. I came over from Holland in 95 with a car full of **** (no not that kind...) and £20 in my pocket. No diplomas or certs to speak of, just leaving cert and a load of different jobs over a 6 year period, not exactly the best career prospects. Now I run my own business and am doing allright, i'm not filthy rich but make a few bob, live in a nice house (rented!) and drive a reasonable car (Ooh yeah, became a married man and a daddie too...). The point is that I do something I like and am able to make a living doing so...</font>

I'd have to agree.
Theres alot of Jobs out there u dont need a peice of paper for.
For example, I hated school, I'm the kinda person that either does something with 100% dedication, or not @ all.
Did'nd give a rats **** about the leaving, never came in, never studied. Failed it.
If been told by many ppl (mainly perents and techers) that i'm a waste of space / time, will never amount to anything ect

Always been good @ coming up with stuff. Had shown good music compasitional skills by the age of 6, after 9 year of music went from that to wrighting stories During secondry.
I done a 1 year plc course in computer game design (which was majorly a multimedia course that was tied in with game design)
We where thought alot of graphics / animation progies tho.
After never doing an art course in my life (not even in school) no leaving cert and a ****y little plc and only 1 year after getting into visual art, I've had no porblems getting a Job.
In fact i've never not got a job
Only 1 and a half years after doing my leaving now and my Graphic design work is on par with that of ppl coming out of 4 year degree courses @ NCAD.
I'm working as full time graphic designer, and have worked in the games industry (with Havok.com) on PC, and PS2 game demo's

Out of every1 that done the LC in my year i've done the best out of the lot of them
So much for a peice of paper.....


[This message has been edited by havok* (edited 30-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by havok* (edited 30-03-2001).]

Winning Hand

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by havok*:


Only 1 and a half years after doing my leaving now..............
Out of every1 that done the LC in my year i've done the best out of the lot of them
Some much for a peice of paper.....
</font>

Sorry m8 but thats not a really good comparison to make, anyone who is in college doing degrees is only 1 and a half years into it, so naturally you would be doing better than them right now. If in ten years (and i dont mean to be offensive) you can make that claim then fair dues to you, if by better off you mean financially then i dont think it will happen. The truth is you would have to be extremely lucky for that to hold out.

Basically put that "piece of paper" for better or worse IS really important, to quote a nike slogan

Just do it

havok*

A fair few of them would be in college granted.

I Was more trying to make the point that even without all theses peices of paper u can still do just as good.
(if your prepared to put the time in tho)
It has'nd been easy by any account, but i love what i'm doing @ the moment. Because i've the intrest in it i dont mind putting the time in.

Greenbean

The main reason why I see it as an unfair comparison is because art and creativity is extremely difficult to teach - its up to the person to somehow develop it or be born with it.

WhiteWashMan

however, it is true that IT, in the technical sense, and not development, is one of the best places to be if you dont have formal education. experience DOES count more than paper. but paper will get you further faster. everyone else though seems to want to degrees or diplomas or something.....

azezil

in what way can u advance in the IT field if ur not interested in management??? are they're other options?

---

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

WhiteWashMan

well, mcse's are perfect for on the job.
you dont need to go to college to get em. and they are worth more in the long run...

Shinji

There's a wonderful lesson in the fact that the majority of the people whinging about university and the futility of education are seemingly unable to make posts with correct spelling and grammar...

University is just one option. I know some great IT folk who have CS degrees, and some utter wasters who have the same degree; there are some top notch people working in my industry who have never been inside a university (I'd like to think that I'm one of them, although I'm hardly in a position to judge :P ) and some utterly incompetent fools who have degrees from great universities.

Further education is the logical choice for the majority of people; but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY choice.

havok*

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shinji:
There's a wonderful lesson in the fact that the majority of the people whinging about university and the futility of education are seemingly unable to make posts with correct spelling and grammar...
B]</font>

Some of us are dyslexic...

WhiteWashMan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Trojan:
I want some of what you're taking Eamonn!

Al.

</font>

ummm, no.

Trojan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by WhiteWashMan:
and they are worth more in the long run...</font>

I want some of what you're taking Eamonn!

Al.