Ownership of cabling in apartment blocks

niallsmart

Hi,

In the apartment block where I live there are a number of junction boxes in the basement into which the 2-pair wires from each apartment are connected into the "local loop". I was just wondering who owns the wiring between the apartment and the junction box (I presume the junction box itself is the property of Eircom). The reason for asking is that there is usually 1 free pair in the cables coming from the apartments, which could be used to wire people up to an apartment block network and hence to the internet.

Regards,

Niall

jd

Originally posted by niallsmart
Hi,

In the apartment block where I live there are a number of junction boxes in the basement into which the 2-pair wires from each apartment are connected into the "local loop". I was just wondering who owns the wiring between the apartment and the junction box (I presume the junction box itself is the property of Eircom). The reason for asking is that there is usually 1 free pair in the cables coming from the apartments, which could be used to wire people up to an apartment block network and hence to the internet.

Regards,

Niall

I'd say talk to the management company. Owners are normally members, so if you are a tenant you may need your landlord to look into it.
The development company, however, normally cede management to the owners after a year, I believe.

niallsmart

I haven't been 100% clear - what I was really asking was if Eircom own this cabling? If not then I presume the management company owns it.

Niall

rardagh

This is a subset of the issue that Eircom and the ODTR are being pursued by the EU commission on. It is called sub-loop unbundling.

Traditionally Eircom would have gone ahead and 'claimed' ownership of this copper. However, in practicality, if you look at the set-up in your basement you will see, at least two boxes, one is the termination by Eircom of a high-pair count cable that goes back to the exchange; the other box is a mini distribution frame to the various apartments in the building. They would be 'tied' together for the various lines.

Therefore Eircom probably can claim up to their own termination box in the basement, however the in-building copper distribution is more then likely owned by the management company.

If in doubt, I would suggest to just use any spare copper, as you need it, and if Eircom revert to you, ask the ODTR to help resolve the dispute!!

In the states this issue got to the stage where the incumbent telcos had to 'repay' hundreds of millions of dollars in 'line rental' fees after the local utilities commissions ruled that they could not charge 'line rental' for copper they did not own!!

This is an important competitive point as well, in so far as incumbent companies elsewhere have been known to seek to restrict access to in building distribution frames by their competitors in an anti-competitive manner, and to try and erect a barrier-to-entry from their alledged ownership of in-building copper.

It may not be so strange after all, why Eircom are not prioritising sub-loop unbundling, although why the ODTR needs to be pursued by the EU commission in order to address the matter is another conspiracy theory....

dahamsta

Hi Rory,

It may not be so strange after all, why Eircom are not prioritising sub-loop unbundling, although why the ODTR needs to be pursued by the EU commission in order to address the matter is another conspiracy theory....

I've had this discussion with, ah, someone recently, and the main argument thrown back to me was that no-one was interested in sub-loop unbundling. I found this hard to believe considering that newer forms of DSL can take advantage of sub-loop unbundling to provide DSL to more locations (by putting DSLAM's in the cabinets), and I think the response to that (I'm not 100% sure, I've deleted the PM) was that the cabinets aren't suitable.

My argument back was that it's regulation, or a directive, or whatever you want to call it. It's there to be implemented. Prioritising is fine, but just how much consideration did subloops get? And are the OLO's really not interested in subloops, or is that being played down too?

adam

niallsmart

Having done a bit more reading I found out that in the US it depends on the state laws; in some states the demarcation point ("demarc") is in the basement, in others it is in the apartment itself. I very much doubt that the ODTR has issued a ruling on this. In my case it's a recently built building ('99) and I would imagine that if the developer ran all the in building telephone cabling it should be owned by the management company.

I will have to look to the ODTR/Eircom for a statement on this if I want to go any further, as there is no point in purchasing a costly DSLAM/HomePNA concentrator only to find out that I don't have the rights to use the copper!

Before I do that I need to get some pricing information on leased lines and ask the other residents if they would be interested in high speed net access.

Niall

longword

Originally posted by dahamsta
I think the response to that (I'm not 100% sure, I've deleted the PM) was that the cabinets aren't suitable.

Any time I've ever seen the inside of those things, it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of room for extra equipment. They're small enough as it is, and stuffed with patch blocks.

dahamsta

Any time I've ever seen the inside of those things, it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of room for extra equipment. They're small enough as it is, and stuffed with patch blocks.

So install another cabinet next to it...

adam