Honda to drop Jordan/Jordan to drop honda

GreenHell

www.dailyf1.com its up there. Really good news I think. If any of you read teletext a few days ago Jordan were thinking of dropping honda.

Only thing is Cosworth might be interested in providing jordan with an engine, rule 1 of f1 never get a ford engine.

VW may go to jordan, which would be great although it would cost jordan another year at least.

Dont be at yourself

Great news, though I hope its due to Eddie's ambitions rather than tightening the purse strings.

We really do need a big manufacturer behind us now, someone like VW would be ideal.

byte

Totally agree as the Honda engine is next to useless.

pookster

DHL are to be replace with SVDP (St Vincent de Paul), and its Lada engines to replace Honda as far as I'm aware!!!!!!!!!!!!

byte

LOL! It's also rumoured that Dunnes Stores will supply St Bernard labelled clothing for the team!:D

GreenHell

I'm glad that Jordan are more than likely going to lose honda at the end of the season, but in one way its a shame. Honda are spending more on engine development than any other team, supposedly at canada they will be showing off their new engine so I'm going to wait until then too see how well honda are spending their money.

chernobyl

It should be apparent to anyone who watches F1 that success comes from a single entity.
Although BMW Williams and TAG Mclaren operate a chasis and engine deparment in different countries, did you know that 80% of the BMW engine development is done in England and Mclaren operate a dual chasis plant in Germany so that any new devs in England are replicated in Germany.

There is very little room left for privately run teams, infact, financially speaking they are all in trouble and EJ needs to either higher someone who can truely do a management job or retire.

EJ has never been a good F1 manager, he lost great drivers and has been a coward and "mothered" one of the worst embarassments ever in F1...hello Damon.

Ferrari like teams are the future and i dont see Jordan with a bright one.

jonno

I don't agree that he's not a good manager, I actually think he has done an alright job. But when he's under pressure or the car isn't goin well - he makes rash decisions like sacking Frentzen. but he's a brilliant ambassador for Irish motorsport albeit an impatient, rash decision maker. But I suppose he's doing it alone and there is pressure.

As for Honda, let them off they're crap. I know there's a new evo. due in canada but what that gona be like seriously? It can't be slower than the present engine - that's impossible. But if it's better I'll have to see it rather than go on stupid press releases from Honda saying it's the answer.

Bring on Volkswagen

mike65

Originally posted by chernobyl
EJ has never been a good F1 manager, he lost great drivers and has been a coward and "mothered" one of the worst embarassments ever in F1...hello Damon.

Is that anyway to talk about Jordans first GP winner? and anyone who can get an Arrows to second place in a F1 race gets my vote!

That said EJ is a crap manager, when the going gets tough, Eddie justs panics and changes driver...again. I think its the lifestyle that he really likes.

Mike.

GreenHell

I think you'll find that Eddie Jordan is only the face of Jordan F1 with a lot more faces in the backround. If you ever cared to look up jordans home page you would have recently seen that Eddies main job is commercial. So maybe you should get an education before commenting like that.

DMX

I think Eddie Jordan is Great guy and a great figure in Irish Motorsport, He's done great things he has made a lot of drivers,

chernobyl

So what EJ is a good/great manager?

..ring ring....Heinz theres a fax from EJ.
Heniz: vat does it say?


...Eddie "your fired".

coward!

and now the poor manager.

How many top quality drivers have been poached from Jordan, how many drivers did he get on loan and end up training these drivers, spending millions on Ralf, Giancarlo etc etc and when they perfected the art of "not crashing into each other" flavio or Willi Webber would say "ralf, time to get into a good team".



and as for Damon Hill giving Jordan their first win.
screw that.

firstly Jordan achieved their first win in Hockenheim in 97 when unfortunately a blown tire cost Fizzi the win and as for Spa 98 you should have heard the pit radio in the last laps.

Ralf Schumacher had the beating of Damon and EJ was literally begging Ralf..."please please please Ralf, Jordan needs this win, please dont do anything, take second".

Schumacher had that victory and EJ lost Ralf Schumacher becuase he is spineless.

GreenHell

Eddie Jordan can't be blamed for contracts, lets face it. Jordan spent one year in the top three teams in F1, only because BMW were building a monster.

First win I'd have liked see jordan get would be with Eddie Irvine but what can you do....

As for Henz, I like the guy, I like his style. But he wasn't racing last year, he couldn't get used to automatic starts, or traction control, or automatic gears. Sorry but F1 is a business and when he was fired I though it was the right decision.

chernobyl

I never disputed that HHF needed the boot but the manner was cowardly and hence i win that small argument.

jonno

Three cheers for chernobyl. whoopty f***in doo.

I agree Frentzen wasn't performing. I don't agree with the sacking though. But EJ is a good manager and you don't actually know that he sent him a fax saying it. That's Frentzen's side of it. They had had meeting the week before it.

Maybe if you got some concrete evidence and back up your stupid posts.

Just for the record "Vat does it say"

Last time I checked Vat stood for Value added tax.

chernobyl

Originally posted by jonno
Three cheers for chernobyl. whoopty f***in doo.

Thanks, do i get a free beer?

Originally posted by jonno
But EJ is a good manager.

Evidence please.

Originally posted by jonno
and you don't actually know that he sent him a fax saying it. That's Frentzen's side of it..

Its a pretty embarassing claim that EJ would have denied if it had been crap, but he did not.

Originally posted by jonno
Maybe if you got some concrete evidence and back up your stupid posts...

I assumed some level of intelligence with the readers of my replys and i did use facts.
maybe you should have re-read my post....
Just for the record "Vat does it say"

Originally posted by jonno
Last time I checked Vat stood for Value added tax.

No comprehension of the attribute called "humour"?
ah well.


EJ a good manager...hehe, you do make me laugh.

44S

Sad:o

GreenHell

Lets see Jordan have been around since 1989 in one of the the most competitive sectors in the world. Now what would happen to a bad manager in that situation. Liquadation? You see you call Eddie Jordan a bad manager but his maintained a team in a sport which shafts you fail.

As the team manager Eddie Jordan is the public face, do you think he does the math for pit stop strategy?

I suppose you do know that before HHF got fired their was arguements for weeks with HHF about his standard. He was going to get fired, everyone knew that, circumstances is not an issue.

How many top quality drivers have been poached from Jordan, how many drivers did he get on loan and end up training these drivers, spending millions on Ralf, Giancarlo etc etc and when they perfected the art of "not crashing into each other" flavio or Willi Webber would say "ralf, time to get into a good team".

No drivers were poached from Jordan, contracts ran out people moved on it happens. You mention Ralf, do you remember his first two season with jordan, it was terrible. If your losing a couple million a season because drivers keep crashing can you take the risk for holding on to them.

Schumacher had that victory and EJ lost Ralf Schumacher becuase he is spineless

I find that funny, who in F1 isn't?

chernobyl

Originally posted by GreenHell
Now what would happen to a bad manager in that situation. Liquadation?

Im not questioning his ability as a financial manager and such but as a manager of a racing team, he makes very poor decisions and repeats them.
You only have to look @ Sato this year, Sato was hired as a good business decision to make good with honda and maybe get Jordan some unoffical preference but Sato as a driver has been a complete diaster.

Originally posted by GreenHell
I suppose you do know that before HHF got fired their was arguements for weeks with HHF about his standard. He was going to get fired, everyone knew that, circumstances is not an issue.

How many fircken times do i have to repeat this, HHF deserved to get the boot, but via fax is cowardly that was the bottom line with my argument.

Originally posted by GreenHell
No drivers were poached from Jordan,

hmm, Michael Schumacher after a single race.
In fact, Michael was hired by Benneton after the qualifying session in Spa.

Originally posted by GreenHell
You mention Ralf, do you remember his first two season with jordan, it was terrible. If your losing a couple million a season because drivers keep crashing can you take the risk for holding on to them.,

Thankyou fo rmaking my point, Jordan has the best car in 97 but to cancel out all that potential Jordan hired two rookies and the result was that for the most part, a fantastic car was driven "slowly".

Originally posted by GreenHell
I find that funny, who in F1 isn't?

Who isnt spineless?

Frank Williams
Haug
Michael Schumacher
and more.

jonno

Originally posted by chernobyl


and as for Damon Hill giving Jordan their first win.
screw that.

firstly Jordan achieved their first win in Hockenheim in 97 when unfortunately a blown tire cost Fizzi the win and as for Spa 98 you should have heard the pit radio in the last laps.

Ralf Schumacher had the beating of Damon and EJ was literally begging Ralf..."please please please Ralf, Jordan needs this win, please dont do anything, take second".

Schumacher had that victory and EJ lost Ralf Schumacher becuase he is spineless.

Any team would have done the same. There was a downpour at the race and it was too risky to let to drivers from the same team battle it out. A win is a win and it's even more important to a team that was going for it's first ever GP victory. ANy manager with a bit of sense would have said the same.

To add to the argument of whether EJ is a good manager - how many top class drivers has EJ given a break.

He spotted a certain Ayrton Senna in 1982 and gave him his racing break in F3. He spotted another driver called Michael Schumacher and gave hiom his break in F1. He gave Eddie Irvine his break in F3000 and F1. He gave Ralf Schumacher his F1 break too.

All of the above drivers have had their time at the top of F1 racing. Schumacher is breaking records still records. We all know what Senna was like (RIP Ayrton) Irvine showed what he could do when Schumacher was out. And Ralf is currently in the fight for the world championship.

So methinks EJ is a fairly good judge of character and he had his reasins for sacking Frentzen.

He is a good manager and isn't spineless. He's doing his job and if that means a few slip up along the way, who cares? Nobody's perfect.

chernobyl

Originally posted by jonno


Any team would have done the same.

Too dangerous to battle it out?
There was no battle, Ralf was 1 second a lap quicker than Hill.
Ralf was 15Kph faster through Eau Rouge, 25Kph faster at the end of the Kemmel straight and from Balnchimont into the bus stop, well theres no comparsion....

Originally posted by jonno


To add to the argument of whether EJ is a good manager - how many top class drivers has EJ given a break.

Fantiastic, whooo rah, he gave them a break and so when these drivers had finally mastered the art of f1, some other team could hire him whenever this top driver decided it was time to win.

And for the most of the drivers you mentioned, Eddie alone did not find them, infact Briatore and EJ had a deal going where EJ got these drivers cheap for a couple of years which always worked out to the advantage of Briatore and the disadvanage of Joran F1.

Originally posted by jonno

EJ <snip> had his reasins for sacking Frentzen.

There, do i have to repeat it again?

Originally posted by jonno
He is a good manager and isn't spineless.

He is not a good racing team manager and dont be so blind.
Spineless, i have heard too many radio coversations to think otherwise.

GreenHell

EJ is a good manager given what his done with Jordan since 1989, small team small budget. Look at them now, compare them to the teams at the back of the grid which have been there longer than jordan. I think your being very narrow minded in your accessment of EJ. Your failing to grasp the realities of F1.

chernobyl

No GreenHell, i am not and EJ has been devoid of objective assessment of himself.

He may be able to make Jordan survive every bump they encounter [fantastic] but he is holding Jordan back because he has never been able to seek out the unsigned talent and land them with a long term contract...never.

GreenHell

And you sir are failing to grasp the reality of F1, given Jordans financial do you honestly think jordan can risk a long term commitment to a rookie driver?????