Pat Rabitte Wins Gong

b20uvkft6m5xwg

[Meant to mention this last night]

Vincent Browne's poll of the most impressive TD, as voted by fellow Dail Deputies, gave the prize to Pat Rabitte.

While I wouldn't come from his school of thought, I do concede he's a very impressive debater and usually knows when to provide a bit of lighheartedness amidst the seriousness of certain situations. ( the Mini CTC inquiry springs to mind) The shame is that he may not even keep his seat in the new Dublin South West Constituency re-jig. AFAIK, he's running a close fourth w/ Sean Crowe of SF

Here are the full results:

Tonight with Vincent Browne - The Poll....

Dublin South West - Pat Rabbitte - 27
Kildare South - Alan M. Dukes - 22
Dun Laoghaire - Eamon Gilmore - 21
Westmeath - William Penrose - 16
Mayo - Jim Higgins - 14
Galway West - Michael D.Higgins - 13
Laois - Offaly - Brian Cowen - 13
Dublin West - Brian Lenihan - 12
Wexford - Brendan Howlin - 12
Cork South Central - Micheál Martin - 11
Meath - John Bruton - 11

Aspro

I think the key phrase is "by fellow Dáil deputies". Jaysus bleeding bungee jumping Christ -

Yawn Bruton - "look at me, I'm rich and ugly and my party is crap"

Brian Lenihan -"My da got me the job"

As for Rabbitte, he's so indignant sometimes he'd convince you he was genuine.

ReefBreak

They didn't give anything to Joe Higgins because they couldn't stop laughing every time they thought about him and his ideas.

Victor

That only accounts for 145 of 166 TDs, possibly other people got other smaller amounts of votes. However the party tally is interesting FF - 36, FG - 47 Labour - 62 (total 145). Are FF TDs trying to appeal to the vanity of Labout TDs or do they genuinely think FF TDs aren't up to scratch. I'm surprised the likes of Alan Shatter or Jim Mitchell or maybe Liz O'Donnell didn't do better.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Sorry,
I should have mentioned that Deputies could not vote for their own party which exponentially means that FF, as the largest party, would receive the least number of votes.

Victor,
Even though I'll prolly vote for O'Donnell, i dont think she could be regarded as a Dail Big Hitter, in the sense of being a great orator. If she gets re-elected it will be due to her profile as a DFA Junior Min.

Shatter is impressive though, although personally I dont like him.

Victor

Originally posted by 80project
I should have mentioned that Deputies could not vote for their own party which exponentially means that FF, as the largest party, would receive the least number of votes.

So its FF engaged in ABFG?

Originally posted by 80project
Even though I'll prolly vote for O'Donnell, i dont think she could be regarded as a Dail Big Hitter, in the sense of being a great orator. If she gets re-elected it will be due to her profile as a DFA Junior Min.

Yes more someone who gets noticed for speaking 'out of turn' than speaking in the Dáil. And she has the 'sexy Liz' bit going for her (who came up with that originally - well probably her bf when she was 17, but)

b20uvkft6m5xwg

I think overall there's not enough "impressive" TD's for FF to exclude FG deputies per say. I think the list above is a fair reflection.

BTW,
If Jackie Healie had bothered to speak more, he prolly would have ranked high in the entertainment stakes at least

Aspro

Originally posted by Reefbreak
They didn't give anything to Joe Higgins because they couldn't stop laughing every time they thought about him and his ideas.

I didn't expect them to acknowledge him considering he's not one of their cronies drinking in the Dáil Bar and backslapping each other at how well they've pulled the wool over the eyes of ordinary people.

Other more intelligent commentators have seen his/our substance:

A Sunday Tribune columnist described him as "the only real opposition in the Dail" and Vincent Browne in yesterday's Irish Times said: "In terms of the substance of his contributions, his commitment and work rate there may not be a more impressive TD in the Dáil. "

So it's irrelevant what you think of him, Reefbreak.
I mean, you support the PDs ffs. May the final nail be put in their coffin this time around while real representatives fighting for ordinary people grow in support.

ReefBreak

A Sunday Tribune columnist described him as "the only real opposition in the Dail"

That's simply because he literally opposes everything that's put forward in the house. One example: opposing tooth and nail the tax-cutting policies which helped to bring this country out of an economic quagmire and which (paradoxically) resulted in massive increases in tax revenue.

and Vincent Browne in yesterday's Irish Times said: "In terms of the substance of his contributions, his commitment and work rate there may not be a more impressive TD in the Dáil. "

There are a lot of TDs that this could be applied to. Willie O'Dea for example (and I know this for a fact) , basically has no life outside attending to legislative debates in the Dail and running clinics for his constituents.

So it's irrelevant what you think of him, Reefbreak.

No sh*t! Guess what, it's basically irrelevant what anyone here thinks of him - this is an internet disscussion board.

I mean, you support the PDs ffs. May the final nail be put in their coffin this time around while real representatives fighting for ordinary people grow in support.

It's funny. PD/FF will probably win up to 83 seats in the next Dáil. The Socialist Party will probably get 1 (Joe Higgins). So who exactly are the ordinary people voting for? If they're voting for the Socialist party , then what term do you use to describe the rest of country? And have you considered why the rest of the country are voting FF/PD (or indeed FG/Labour, etc)? Perhaps, it's because we've had the most prosperous period in Irish history. Perhaps, it's because we now have the lowest employment (including long-term unemployment) in Irish history. You can always dream, but there won't be any nail in the PD/FF coffin this time around because the majority of "real" ordinary people have seen the benefits of the economic boom and know that the policies of the Socialist Party are just too far removed from reality to consider voting for them.

In fairness, I recognise that Joe Higgins is probably a very hard working TD and that he means well, but unfortunately, his ideas are laughable:
Joe Higgins: "I believe that all companies and institutions in this state should be accountable to a central committee representing the ordinary workers of the state. The policies and redistribution of profits from those institutions should be accountable to that committee."
Eamon Dunphy: "But's that's communism Joe! They tried that in Russia - it didn't work, it was the most corrupt system of the 20th century."
JH: "Yes, but our system would be better, it would be more accountable to the ordinary people and wouldn't be corrupt."
ED: "And how do intend to do that."
JH: "Well, we don't know at the moment how to do that..."
Etc, etc..

Aspro

Originally posted bt Reefbreak
It's funny. PD/FF will probably win up to 83 seats in the next Dáil. The Socialist Party will probably get 1 (Joe Higgins). So who exactly are the ordinary people voting for? If they're voting for the Socialist party , then what term do you use to describe the rest of country?

50% - 60% of the people in this country won't vote in this election. Why? Because they are sick of the corrupt, crony politics of the establishment parties. All the policies of the present government have been designed to further enrich their rich backers - a chronic example of redistributing the wealth from the poor to the rich - while the services essential to a decent standard of living have been driven into the ground.

5 years ago I was renting a house for £40 a week and was earning enough to have a relatively decent standard of living. Now I'm forced to live back home, can't afford a house, can't afford rented accomodation and am seeing less and less money in my pocket thanks to car insurance and the inflated prices of everything. Of course FF, PDs etc, would never do anything to píss off their big business and landlord cronies that might make life a little easier for ordinary people.

You can always dream, but there won't be any nail in the PD/FF coffin this time around because the majority of "real" ordinary people have seen the benefits of the economic boom...

Firstly it is the PD's who are dreaming if they think they're going to win 8 seats. They'll be lucky to win two if Harney and O'Donnell hold onto their seats. They've been on a gradual decline since 1989. Secondly you're obviously talking to different ordinary people than I am, because if you go into any working class estate around the country and ask people "did you see any benefits of the Celtic Tiger" you'll get a resounding "NO!"

It was a boom for the rich, that was all. All the recent CORI and Combat Poverty reports will concur with this. Ireland is now a more unequal place than ever. Fianna Fail and the PD's did nothing to change this. But then, why would they? They're the parties of big business. If their is a policy conflict between the interests of profit and the interests of ordinary workers it's plain as day whose side they will support. It's the whole Thatcherite privatisation ideology that they're trying to force on us. As we've seen from the British experience it has been a disaster.

...and know that the policies of the Socialist Party are just too far removed from reality to consider voting for them.

When we stood for the first time in 1997 we came close to topping the poll and Joe Higgins won our first seat. In 1999 Clare Daly took Nora Owen's council seat because of our record and policies in Dublin North and it's highly likely we can take the Dáil seat in that constituency as well, not discounting at least one other seat in the five constituencies we are standing in, so obviously there are a lot of people who are looking to us as the alternative. That's the reality. If there wasn't a conscious effort by the media to obscure us (almost every newspaper report in the last few years commenting on the different Dáil parties have either deliberately omitted us, or called Joe Higgins everything from Independent to others to Jim Higgins to Socialist Workers Party) we would be growing faster than Sinn Fein for this election.

As for your snippet of a transcript from an Eamon Dunphy interview - nothing new in a so-called "ex-socialist", now-best-mates-with-rabid-Shane Ross trying to detract from our ideas. As a mainstream media mouthpiece that's his job after all. At least he's not as bad as that ex-Maoist!!! Kevin Myers.

Victor

Originally posted by ReefBreak
There are a lot of TDs that this could be applied to. Willie O'Dea for example (and I know this for a fact) , basically has no life outside attending to legislative debates in the Dail and running clinics for his constituents.

But shouldn't he really being his job as Minister for Youth Affairs or is he just drawing his ministerial salary to finance his re-election.

ReefBreak

The usual left-wing buzzwords and clichés.

All the policies of the present government have been designed to further enrich their rich backers - a chronic example of redistributing the wealth from the poor to the rich - while the services essential to a decent standard of living have been driven into the ground

First, some evidence please. If you can't find any, I can supply all the average GDP/person or (even more importantly) all the unemployment stats you want.

5 years ago I was renting a house for £40 a week and was earning enough to have a relatively decent standard of living. Now I'm forced to live back home, can't afford a house, can't afford rented accomodation and am seeing less and less money in my pocket thanks to car insurance and the inflated prices of everything. Of course FF, PDs etc, would never do anything to píss off their big business and landlord cronies that might make life a little easier for ordinary people.

Rents went up as a result of the economic boom, which resulted in increased demand due to increased immigration (I assume the Socialist party are, like me, supportive of immigration) and property speculation. Have you forgotten that the government has just spent a fortune on a car insurance inquiry? I don't remember the government being blamed for that - it was mainly as a result of ordinary people taking excessive personal injury claims.

It was a boom for the rich, that was all. All the recent CORI and Combat Poverty reports will concur with this. Ireland is now a more unequal place than ever. Fianna Fail and the PD's did nothing to change this. But then, why would they? They're the parties of big business. If their is a policy conflict between the interests of profit and the interests of ordinary workers it's plain as day whose side they will support. It's the whole Thatcherite privatisation ideology that they're trying to force on us. As we've seen from the British experience it has been a disaster.

All a complete pile of horseshít. What CORI and CP forget to inform us is that there is far less poverty now than in the 80s and 70s. It's been declining for years - compare the level of poverty now to the level of poverty in the 40s, 50s, 60s or 70s. Think about it. It was a boom for the rich? Take a look outside your window, look at the quality of the average car on the road. It was a boom for anyone that worked hard and wanted to take advantage of it.

As for your snippet of a transcript from an Eamon Dunphy interview - nothing new in a so-called "ex-socialist", now-best-mates-with-rabid-Shane Ross trying to detract from our ideas. As a mainstream media mouthpiece that's his job after all. At least he's not as bad as that ex-Maoist!!! Kevin Myers.

More socialist ranting. The only person that detracted from his ideas was Joe Higgins - it was the funniest thing I'd heard on Dunphy's show in years. As for the "rabid-Shane Ross" comment - I assume that's just try usual extreme-left/socialist party hatred for anyone with any kind of association with business (big or small) in this country.

Aspro

Ah Reefbreak, we can keep going around in circles but that'll get us nowhere. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with me. I won't convince someone like you. I'll keep doing my thing and you keep doing yours and we'll see what the future brings us.

Now that'd make a nice song, wouldn't it?

ReefBreak

Aye, fair enough - hands across the (political) divide, etc, etc..

Victor

Stop blaing the housing crisis on immigration. Oh and get back on topic lads.

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Rents went up as a result of the economic boom, which resulted in increased demand due to increased immigration (I assume the Socialist party are, like me, supportive of immigration) and property speculation.

Originally posted by Victor
There was a large increase in the Irish population in the 1970s, those people have in recent years been moving out of home and getting there own homes. Average household size has fallen to about 3. This has created a huge demand for housing and the lower to middle parts of society are suffering. Consequently housing is only available to those willing to pay 'top dollar'. Those at the bottom of the scale have been forced off the housing ladder. Primarily, but not exclusively, these are people who suffer from broken homes, substance abuse and social deprivation.

There are approximately 45,000 families (perhaps 135,000 - 150,000 people) on council waiting lists (not including people who wouldn't qualify for that list because they earn a 'middle' income). Despite 50,000 homes being built every year, this list still grows.

There is of course the matter of Irish people returning from abroad, but this is the smaller part of the equation (and doesn't apply to this topic anyway).

Of non-Irish immigrants, many asylum seekers and lower paid workers are housed in sub-standard and non-domestic accommodation. Higher paid workers (e.g. in the banking & IT sector) occupy housing that would not have been available to the now homeless (although there is a trickle effect). Together their impact on the housing market is slight. Foreign construction workerrs contribute positively to housing availibility.

For those interested you can get statistics on www.cso.ie

Originally posted by Victor
http://www.unison.ie/stories.php3?ca=9&si=14248&breakingnews=1

Meh

Originally posted by ReefBreak
All a complete pile of horseshít. What CORI and CP forget to inform us is that there is far less poverty now than in the 80s and 70s. It's been declining for years - compare the level of poverty now to the level of poverty in the 40s, 50s, 60s or 70s. Think about it.

There's a difference between relative poverty ("less than 50% of the average wage") and absolute poverty ("unable to afford food, clothing or shelter"). The former is inaccurately named -- it's really a measure of inequality. Relative poverty has increased during the boom, due to salary rises leaving the unemployed/pensioners/disabled behind.

Absolute poverty, on the other hand, has decreased significantly (source).

Originally posted by Aspro
I think the key phrase is "by fellow Dáil deputies". Jaysus bleeding bungee jumping Christ -

Yawn Bruton - "look at me, I'm rich and ugly and my party is crap"

Brian Lenihan -"My da got me the job"

As for Rabbitte, he's so indignant sometimes he'd convince you he was genuine.

LoL:D
Your comment on Pat Rabbitte is so very true.
I don't come from his political way of thinking-but I do enjoy listening to him, for the very reason you've stated.

My father used hate his politics with a vengence though and prayed he'd get mixamatosis:D ( a disease that wiped out the Rabbits in the 50's and 60's:p )
mm