Homophobia...

DeVore

The recent request for a Gay board on Admin set me thinking about how far Ireland has come in accepting Gay people.

Its a multi faceted question really because not all Gay people are saints by any stretch of the imagination (though many of them are priests and bishops... ooo! Bit political!)

However, I got some weird feedback from a fair few people which stuck me as odd.

My angle for discussion is the percentage of gay people in the general society and why we should believe or not that the same percentages apply here...

DeV.

chernobyl

I was homophobic, i did not want to be gay, i hated "gays", i hated myself, i turned 16 and realized that none of if fricken matters and then: no more homophobia and no more sexual uncertainty.

Im glad the story is not any longer, are you?

Jpaulik

Originally posted by DeVore

Its a multi faceted question really because not all Gay people are saints by any stretch of the imagination (though many of them are priests and bishops... ooo! Bit political!)

You meant paedophiles right ? The recent stuff in the press about those that abused children ? I don't think you could class them as being gay because they raped young boys and girls.

DeVore

Actually, I didnt. Sorry if it reads it like that.

Like everyone, I have gay friends. I've been in the George with them a number of times (scary as **** the first time actually which in itself made the journey interesting). I was referring to anedotal evidence of a large number of priests who carry on sexually (both hetro and homo) because of a church that trys to bottle up what nature intended as our most powerful instinct.

Btw, if you dont have Gay friends, you might want to ask yourself why your friends who are gay havent confided in you but both these points are really entire threads in themselves.

Anyone want to put percentages to the population?

DeV.

DeVore

oh yeah, and the "not being saints" point is about gay people who go about *deliberately* pushing their private lives into public view to get a reaction (usually so they can then righteously and indignantly point at it and howl "homophobe!")
They exist though they are the minority imho.

DeV.

Terminator

10% gay
10% bi / unsure
5% tg

Jpaulik

Homosexuality stats: They say its one in ten, but in conservative Ireland I doubt its as high as that.

I don't know if homophobia is decreasing hugely, its just more people are coming out more and the gay lifestyle is becoming more public.

There might be less in your face homophobia, but behind your back is the sniggering and character assasinating still.

Bottle_of_Smoke

hey terminator whats tg?

DeVore

Why would conservativism have any effect on the *actual* number of gay people in the country?

10% gay 10% bi sounds high, I also dont know what TG stands for...

I think there is a great divide between acceptance of gay people in Dublin compared to the country...

DeV.

Terminator

tg = transvestite, transexual, cross dressers

I'd imagine 10% bi is about right - there's a huge amount of bi women out there.

Shinji

The 10% rule is silly and very hard to back up statistically, but it generally seems to apply in my experience - if you put together a group of 10-15 people, chances are that there'll be at least one gay person there. Admittedly I'm talking about relatively educated people - I'd imagine that on a building site full of Daily Sport readers it's a bit less likely that you'll find an out gay person, and note that not a single Premiership football player is openly gay. This has nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with attitude.

Some people have suggested recently that there are probably more gay people in broad-based online communities like Boards.ie and so on than you might expect statistically, and I'd say that's quite probably true. People in a community like this are, in general, more open minded and educated than they are down your local pub or in your school classroom, and hence gay people - like many other minorities - gravitate to this kind of gathering. It's only to be expected.

(Pre-emptive Point: The first person on this thread to make a politically correct whinge about how all the poor gay people must be horribly insulted by the various "fagot"-style insults used by folk around here gets a slap around the head with a clue stick. Oddly enough, gay people have a sense of humour too.)

Zero

Originally posted by DeVore
The recent ... Gay ... on ... me ... has come in ... priests and bishops... ooo!
However, I got some weird ... gay people ... and ... we should...apply here...

DeV.

ah tom your coded message ended abruptly, finish it off there you big batty boy.

DeVore

hahah, um, I'm sure you think I was referring to you Ronan, but actually it was a few of the regulars in IRC that really kinda shocked me.

Anyway, you look sweet in that nD skin... rawr!

DeV.

DeVore

Originally posted by Terminator
tg = transvestite, transexual, cross dressers

I'd imagine 10% bi is about right - there's a huge amount of bi women out there.

Surely its TV or TS then? TG doesnt make much sense...

Anyway, theres a huge amount of bi women out there because most Irish guys think sex is like plugging your walkman earphones in and out as fast as possible.
You dont go looking for a clitoris if you dont know its there now do you...

DeV.

JustHalf

I thought the statistics were around 3-5%?

swiss

I am sometimes surprised by the attitudes of some people in relation to my sexuality. I don't mind those who tell me to my face "I think it's wrong, and this is why.." in a reasonably coherent and civil manner. I understand how perverse homosexuality can appear to those who have never known any differently. However, it is those who appear open minded about so many cultural taboos, particularly in relation to relationships and sex - and who have expressed their disdain that surprises me.

I think that yes, oftentimes homophobia is born of either ignorance (not being au fait with gay culture, and tending to cling to outdated stereotypes) or closed-mindedness.

Originally posted by DeVore
Why would conservativism have any effect on the *actual* number of gay people in the country?

It would not. It would however have an impact on those who claimed to be gay. I know of some gay people who would never reveal their sexuality to their 'straight' friends or family, mostly due to their fear of the emotional repercussions. This would distort the amount of people who are known to be gay. I don't believe that an accurate figure exists, for the simple fact that some people who are gay will sadly never admit it.

Originally posted by Shinji
(Pre-emptive Point: The first person on this thread to make a politically correct whinge about how all the poor gay people must be horribly insulted by the various "fagot"-style insults used by folk around here gets a slap around the head with a clue stick. Oddly enough, gay people have a sense of humour too.)

Damn staight (excuse the pun). I'm subjected to light - hearted ribbing almost every day. I don't take it to heart, my friends are still my friends, regardless of my sexuality. Online text, however, doesn't come with an in-built tone analyser. That means that people should be more careful when giving people a ribbing on the internet. They may take it to heart.

chernobyl

Originally posted by DeVore

Anyway, theres a huge amount of bi women out there because most Irish guys think sex is like plugging your walkman earphones in and out as fast as possible.

Most teenage guys when in a relationship are the ones pushing and pushing their girlfriends to go further and further and as fast as possible, essentailly they get into a "bad sex" routine.

Its just a state of mind, if you want to cum then you will do so but if you really want to get fuked then you need to approach it dfferently.

Surely most guys know what/where the clitoris is but running for it immediately does nothing either...or so im told.

Mickah

Whats a "Clit-oar-iss"?

Those limp-wristed, "like oh my gawd, schhtop it!!!" wiggle yer @ss Gay folk really get on my wick, seen a few of them outside The George. Mind you those sort of women get on my nerves too.

I don't have any gay friends, never thought about that before.

Of Gay blokes I've met, I've always thought, stoopidly, **** I hope he doesn't come onto me. That's more ignorance and inexperience than homophobic though.

Mills

I don't have any openly gay friends around here, at all, Monaghan's the sort of place where if you're gay you'd keep it to yourself until you can get out. I've been talking to some friends of mine around here and the most open-minded/tolerant view I got was that if I said tommorrow I was gay (hypothetical ) he'd still be my friend but he'd be careful not to touch me (!) in case I jumped him :rolleyes:. Mostly people wouldn't talk about it and said "Ah stop, that's disgusting" or something similar.

Like I said on another thread, I'm only realising lately how homophobic the general populace is around here, if I was gay I think I'd come out anyway, because I'd tend towards just being myself and let people make whatever they like of it...... but I can understand why someone would keep it to themselves if they were gay and in a community like this. For reasons like this I think it'll be a long long time before we can get an accurate percentage figure for how many people are homosexual, and I think any guesses I make will just be figures plucked out of the air.

The percentage of homosexuals on boards could be a little higher than in society in general, not sure why, just the kind of people the boards attract maybe.

JustHalf

Stimulating a woman sexually

Step 1: Insert nose into bellybutton

Shinji

I'm subjected to light - hearted ribbing almost every day

*Struggles to avoid a "Ribbed for his pleasure" gag; fails.*

I don't take it to heart, my friends are still my friends, regardless of my sexuality

Well quite. One of the guys in my clan came out a while back (most of us knew beforehand, but I guess some folk are slow on the uptake) and some people tried to stop all the homosexual banter in the IRC channel for a while. I was sat there thinking, "jesus, nice one guys, make it look like you're treating him differently and walking on eggshells around him. That'll REALLY make him feel like we accept it and don't give a damn really..."

(They got over it. We just spent a weekend in Amsterdam. During one interesting show involving a lady with a banana demonstrating the theory behind the vaccuum cleaner, one of the gay guys in the clan turned around and announced "That's pathetic, I could do that when I was 14!"... )

Those limp-wristed, "like oh my gawd, schhtop it!!!" wiggle yer @ss Gay folk really get on my wick, seen a few of them outside The George. Mind you those sort of women get on my nerves too.

Camp people do my head in. They're not all gay either. Some of them are arts students

JustHalf

I actually stopped being friends with someone over their homophobia. I was in Bristol and was flirting with a woman for quite some time, before being told later (on the bus to Glastonbury) that she was a lesbian. I then told an Irish friend of my about his, thinking she'd laugh.

She thought it was disgusting. She also told me she hates worship musicians.

Which means she hates nearly every woman I've gone after, and my best friend (who plays in a worship band).

Not that anyone wants to know, like everything else I post here

Baz_

Originally posted by Shinji

Camp people do my head in. They're not all gay either. Some of them are arts students

/me looks at dadakopf

Terminator

Originally posted by Mickah
Whats a "Clit-oar-iss"?

Those limp-wristed, "like oh my gawd, schhtop it!!!" wiggle yer @ss Gay folk really get on my wick

LOL You've been watchin too much South Park. Actually there's a growing no of camp straight men - which can be v confusing.

Originally posted by Devore
Surely its TV or TS then? TG doesnt make much sense

Sorry people, TG is short for Transgendered a general term that loosely covers transvestites, transexuals, cross dressers plus drag kings and queens.

chernobyl

Originally posted by JustHalf
Stimulating a woman sexually

Step 1: Insert nose into bellybutton

I appreciate you JustHalf.
I am very young, sexually speaking and would love it if you do a 10 step guide to pleasing women.

please...;)

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

JustHalf

I'm sorry Chernobyl, that's as far as I've gotten.

dahamsta

And why was your first visit to the George scary? Did you think they would do something? Its just a club.

I gotta say, it's a pretty cool club if my one and only visit there is anything to go by. Perhaps it was just a calm night, but I found it one of the most /polite/ clubs I've ever been in. Everyone seemed to go out of their way to be nice to everyone else, and I nearly collapsed when someone bumped into me and /turned around and apologised/. I dunno, maybe I'm being prejudiced in an odd way, but I've only been in gay clubs twice - I went to another one in London a while back - and I haven't felt as relaxed in a club since. And I'm not even gay. AND I got hit on in the one in London.

adam

Terminator

Originally posted by dahamsta

I gotta say, it's a pretty cool club if my one and only visit there is anything to go by.

I don't go there much but I'd have to agree - everyone is really nice. You just gotta watch out for the biker lezzers - now they're scary

Shinji

err Duh! What sort of half arsed statement is that? So because I have no gay friends it is because I exuded homophobia or I am..? Nothing to do with the circles I have evolved into?

Ah yes of course, you have mysteriously managed to "evolve" into some circle which doesn't have any gay people in it!

Reality check, sunshine. Gay people, shockingly enough, are just like normal people in every respect. Gay people are doctors, football players, farmers, butchers, soldiers and pint-drinkers, not just hairdressers, actors or artists. They come in all shapes and sizes, all kinds of mindsets and all kinds of political and religious thought.

If you don't know any openly gay people, it's because they haven't told you - for whatever reason. The chances that you actually genuinely do not know anyone gay are about as statistically likely as Azezil ever posting something genuinely interesting and funny - unless, of course, you've met all your friends through ads in the paper along the lines of "MEN! INTERESTED IN THE RODDING OF WOMEN? ME TOO! LETS HAVE A PINT! BOX 1246"...

meglome

I always tried to be 'right on' as they say, so although I didn't at the time know any gay people very well I didn't have any issue with gays. But I lived with my ex-flatmate for over a year and a half and not only was he gay but he is a mad ****er. We had some great laughs, he would tell me all about his exploits in the 'Boiler Room' and elsewhere. I have been numerous times to the George, The Front Lounge and Spy with gay friends. I know more about gay sex than any heterosexual man should (without testing ) and I can honestly say it has been a very liberating experience. I have never been more secure in my own sexuality but I have never met so many gay people.
Another gay friend of mine was staying with us last week and she told me a lot about her sexual exploits with women. I'm sorry but is it just me who finds it very horny when a lesbian tells you about her sexual exploits with other women.

The fact is there a lot of openly gay people in Dublin and I think we are all better off for it.

Actually we had a Romanian friend of ours staying and he was out with my girlfriend and nearly everyone else there was gay, whether they were male or female. It actually got very funny as he was talking about in Romania that people tend to marry reasonably young and he was surprised that no one at the table was married. We had to explain it to him. But on a more serious note in Romania to be gay is like having some incurable contagious disease, you could lose you life. My Romanian friend now understands that gay people are just like everyone else but ignorance is not bliss.

amp

Jeez Meglome, "romanian" and "gay" in one post? Stop baiting Zero will ye.

Xterminator

To go back to the serious note of the thread-:

I think that in a society that accepts homosexuality, people are more likely to accept their (different) nature if they dont feel it will cost them there family/friends/job/liberty etc.

I think in Preident Mugabe's country the no. of people who will admit to being homosexual (even to themselves) will be far less than here in irelnad, partly because of the consequences.

I know some people believe that homosexuality can be 'unlearned' in time. Obviously these would be the of the belief that homosexuality is a behaviour or a choice, rather than a trait.

Now science is split on this issue, with some researchers claining certain genetic combinations are more predominant in homosexuals, but nobody has found the 'gay' gene.

Infact its fair to say there is no gay gene, as the genome has been mapped. But there are suggestions that certain combinations lead to a greater likehood of gay preference. (unproven).

I personally have homosexual friends who believe they were born gay, ..but that is not proof either.

Just to get back to the point that some people say 10% of society are gay, I think that it is possible for a gay inclined person to not admit to this to themselves, and to live a straight life, dependant on how repugnant he idea is to them personally (influenced by how likely society is to accept them).

Thus in tolerant society there will be more gay people, aka the bible and 'soddom and gomorrah' type society. This can be 'social class' related too, with the working class less tolerant of homosexuality, leading to the perception of a middle class/upper class gay society. Of course there will b some gay working class people , just as zimbabwe will have some homosexuals, but i think the no's will be influenced by many factors.

That also would explain why in a society like boards.ie, where we are far more likely to be educated, resaonably affluent, tolerant people the no's of gay people will seem highr than the norm.

My 2 cents anyway!

X

X

azezil

The chances that you actually genuinely do not know anyone gay are about as statistically likely as Azezil ever posting something genuinely interesting and funny

wooo well excuse you, ya nob gobblin poo pushin arse bandit!!

Lolo

Can't remember who posted about there being 'loads of bi women out there' (and can't be arsed to go back and check) - I think there are probably just as many men who are 'bi-curious', i.e. straight but not absolutely convinced that they're never ever going to find a man attractive. However, women are more likely to act on it, mainly because of the way women already interact with each other - much more touchy-feely, holdy-handy huggy-wuggy then men. So it's less of a big step for them to snog one of their mates when their drunk just to see what it's like. Having said that, I still know plenty of women who are as freaked out by the idea of lesbian sex as men are about male gay sex.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

DeVore

I was only about 23 and was my first clear interaction with anyone who was gay. I wouldnt actually say I was scared but nervous would be a good word!
Eventually I just relaxed since I was drinking with mates but its mad the stuff that goes through your head.... glasses being washed by a gay guy, are these other people looking at me etc...

I hadnt had any gay friends at that time and we (the group) were kinda dared by him to go with him for a night.
I definitely felt like women must feel in places like Trampco but it was fun.

MT: If you have about 2 dozen "friends" are you saying none of them are gay?

DeV.

tHE vAGGABOND

And why was your first visit to the George scary? Did you think they would do something? Its just a club.

I know a good few gay people (on and off line), but I have never been into the George. I did go to the gay night in USI a few times when I was into the students union thing but nothing else really.

One of my real life friends is a copper, and told me what happened to that poor girl who got raped in the George last year (as a bloke live with was on the case). After hearing all the gory details I would not be eager to go in there. It would be weird to confront those horrible images. Lucky I suppose then that I dont live in Dublin anymore.

There is the straight thing of not wanting people to think your gay. Murphys law says that the first time you go to go in there a bus full of your friends will drive by as you open the door

I was only about 23 and was my first clear interaction with anyone who was gay

Thru the Students union I knew a fair few gay people thru the LGB campaign, but I can remember the first time a 'straight' friend came out as being gay! I was shocked as sh1t! Everyone else was like "of course" but I had not seen it at all. This person was normal, did not speak or act like a caracter in the movie Birdcage! I just did not realise that normal 'lads' could be gay too I suppose! You know yourself, before the days of the internet Irish people just had no source of education about these things unless you went looking for it.

Ser

its juts plain and simple wrong. it is evil, you will be punished,if u keep all this talk up, you will catch gay yourselfs! down with the gay! and this george fella also!

Ser

also, messin aside now. in a club few weeks ago, some gay fella was hassleing me bigtime, tryin to touch me, no joke, i made it very ferkin clear to him that im not gay, my gf told him to piss off, he realy got me mad, tryd to touch my ass, (im not jokin), this guy would not get the hint till i headbuted him. he got me so vexed. kept saying **** to me like,' oh u know ur gay realy 'and **** like this, duno who he thinks he was talkin to, i let him off lightly. dont try that **** with me again.

ykt0di9url7bc3

Originally posted by swiss

Damn staight (excuse the pun). I'm subjected to light - hearted ribbing almost every day. I don't take it to heart, my friends are still my friends, regardless of my sexuality

yeah but not as much as before swiss!

once you stopped that "I suppose you know then...." **** or "Does so'n'so have a problem with..." crap when we were out drinking, the abuse went away...i mean when we were in the club it was talk about your sexuality or LAN gaming....

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
I am more interested in knowing why Dev was scared of going to the George.

I can understand to a degree. Gay men were continually propositioning me when I was in my early twenties. One more "you don't know 'till you tried" and I was going to floor someone (aggressive sexual advances are a male thing, rather than a gay thing, I think - it's made me a little more understanding of the plight of many women in bars/clubs).

Doesn't happen to me any more - perhaps Irish gaydar has improved, or I'm not as 'pretty' as I used to be

tHE vAGGABOND

would not get the hint till i headbuted him

subtle as always ser

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND
subtle as always ser

but still very pretty.
he slept in my house once.
i liked it.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

JustHalf

Ser, I've found that working on the strength of the front of the skull works wonders for tolerance to impact. I'm constantly headbutting walls and windows to strengthen my skull.

Now if I nut someone, or they nut me, I won't be in pain.

Also, that guy deserves a kicking BTW. That's sexual assault, if you're telling the truth.

azezil

i must be really slow, i couldn't tell a gay man from a straight even if he came up n grabed me by the ass!

swiss is the only confirmed gay man i've ever met, n i wouldn't of know he was gay either only that SearrarD told me b4 hand!!

Not having interaction with gay people hasn't made me bias against them, granted there's alot i don't know, and i probably am a bit overly paranoid at times, but i still except them for what they are.

The Corinthian
aggressive sexual advances are a male thing, rather than a gay thing, I think

ROFL what gay's aren't males??

logic1

Originally posted by azezil

swiss is the only confirmed gay man i've ever met

Jesu you make it sound like Vietnam - We've got three confirmed Gays Sir.

ROFL what gay's aren't males??

And lesbians aren't also Gay? Not so funny when you think about what he was saying.

.logic.

azezil

Originally posted by logic1
Jesu you make it sound like Vietnam - We've got three confirmed Gays Sir.

lol ok fair enough

And lesbians aren't also Gay? Not so funny when you think about what he was saying.

.logic.

right as always logic, i bow to your superior breast size.

Lolo

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND
.

I just did not realise that normal 'lads' could be gay too I suppose! You know yourself, before the days of the internet Irish people just had no source of education about these things unless you went looking for it.

Em, no - that's a load of bollox. I remember Ireland far far back in the msits of time before the internet (like, y'know, 8 years ago) Even if you'd never met anyone who's gay, there were always films, books, TV programmes, newspaper/magazine articles to 'educate' you on these matters, and I'm not just talking about overtly gay media either. Before I'd ever met anyone I knew was gay I knew that steretypes were stereotypes and not everybody conformed to them.

tHE vAGGABOND

I knew that steretypes were stereotypes and not everybody conformed to them.

real life is not always so black and white tho