France Telecom Reduce DSL prices. (€25 for 512k)

timod

Paddy20

Timod,

Once again, you are posting info & links of great interest ahead of the field. How do you do it??.

Brill...

Yours. paddy20.:) NICE ONE.

phaxx

paddy20: It is relevant, (It shows how badly we're being ripped off, and provides an example of what level of pricing is acceptable) and some people will appreciate the information - myself, for example.

timod

Originally posted by paddy20
Timod,

Once again, you are posting info & links of great interest ahead of the field. How do you do it??.

Must be my natural genius, famed intellegence, stunning good looks, and great athleticism . (At least that's what the girls tell me...)

(BTW, there is no need to congratulate people all the time - it kinda breaks away from the topic... - but thanks for the compliment )

Anway, I just got the link from another mail list.

Tim

timod

More pricing news:

http://www.regtp.de/en/aktuelles/pm/02532/index.html

Today, German Regulator lowers one-time charges for access to the "last mile"
From €92.59 to €70.56.

I'm a bit confused...

'coz in March here:
http://www.regtp.de/en/aktuelles/pm/02502/index.html

They say Rental charge per loop €4.77

Can somebody clear this up for me?

Seemingly, OLO's can buy or rent the loop. Is that an option here?, Is it on the table? Or are these tie lines?

Later,

Tim

mdf

The first one is a connection charge - that's why it's once off. The rental is a monthly figure and I think is for shared access not for full unbundling (which is higher). The prices applying here were set by the ODTR last year - 13.53 for rental

mdf

The first one is a connection charge - that's why it's once off. The rental is a monthly figure and I think is for shared access not for full unbundling (which is higher). The prices applying here were set by the ODTR last year - 13.53 for rental

Richard Barry

Originally posted by mdf
The first one is a connection charge - that's why it's once off. The rental is a monthly figure and I think is for shared access not for full unbundling (which is higher). The prices applying here were set by the ODTR last year - 13.53 for rental

Almost a year ago exactly (30 Apr 2001). AFAICS the eircom side are still holding out for something approaching €70 per month - which is more than the retail price of a full service offering most other places.

Eircom can do what they like - the max fine the ODTR can impose is € 1800 approx. Meanwhile if you want to compete with them the ODTR license fee is €12,500!

Speaks volumes for government policy on the matter.

R


http://www.odtr.ie/docs/pres300401.doc

longword

I have a question about that 1800 euro fine. Under what circumstances and how often can they apply it? Can they not fine a company 1800 euro per line per month (or day!) of non-compliance?

Are they only allowed bring it out once a years for parties or something?

Richard Barry

Originally posted by longword
I have a question about that 1800 euro fine. Under what circumstances and how often can they apply it? Can they not fine a company 1800 euro per line per month (or day!) of non-compliance?

Are they only allowed bring it out once a years for parties or something?

Perhaps we should have elections for the head of ODTR (or the Communications Commission as it might be if the comms bill ever gets enacted)? This happens in many US states for their state utility or state telecomms commissions.

You would stand a good chance of getting the job on a €1800 per line per day platform!

R.

Paddy20

Richard,

I have just read the "English" version, thanks to the link you posted.

May I suggest too Ireland OFFline that they consider using this to support the basic right of the Irish internet users as fellow - European Citizens - to the same type of service which is now being made available in France.

I believe we as a people should "DEMAND" it and not go cap in hand requesting someone in some Gov dept or Eircom too maybe consider letting us have a fair Unmetered internet access service. It is our right and I for one want it NOW!. Before the election.

It is inevetable, the service that we all want can be given too all sectors of our society. As for the argument that Irelands consumer base is not large enough too profitably sustain a "Unmeterd flat rate internet access service" BALDERDASH!.

We are Europeans and as such we are entitled too a Telecomms service here that reflects that which is already available throughout the rest of Europe, are we not - Am I right , or am I wrong?.

Lets STOP pussyfooting around . A General Election is about too be called and our campaign is a "just and fair" ELECTION ISSUE,
whether or not Mr Bertie Ahern T.D. likes it or not - is his problem.

Bertie, Get your act together - use your clout NOW - I personally know that you are more than capable of sorting out the current internet flat rate service "fiasco" so do it, before the election.

Otherwise, you may have just commited political suicide - and I do not believe that is what you want in reality. So "COP ON" & GET REAL on this issue, make a few damn phone calls TODAY??.

Yours, paddy20 :mad:

BKtje

a german mate of mine gave me a list of all german prices.

i really felt like crying, 1024/256 for €105 a month no cap and €50 installation. They have nething from €20 upwards.

aidan_dunne

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, paddy20. We are entitled to a decent service in this country and for too long Eircom (nee TE) have had this attitude of, "Who are you to demand more from us? You should be thankful to have phone lines in this country in the first place!" The way they handled the ADSL fiasco when they were told to drop the price by the ODTR last year, saying they would withdraw the service altogether if they weren't allowed to sell it at the (ridiculous!) prices they wanted, showed this clearly. They feel that they have done enough by installing copper phone lines around the country and we should be eternally grateful to them for letting us have a phone in our houses and, therefore, we have no right to be demanding fibre optic cable to be laid, or broadband, or ADSL, or flat-rate.

paddy20, you are right when you say we should be demanding for these services but there will have to be a lot of education and a major change in attitude within the persona of the general public before Eircom will listen to our demands.

At the first sign of the customers demanding a new or improved service from Eircom they throw a strop like a spoilt child. But this is largely our own fault. Why? Well, quite simply, the Irish people have for generations "settled" for what they had and made no complaints. As a result, companies like Eircom felt they had done all the work they had to and would never have a demand placed on them by the people (or government, for that matter). But, within the past few years, the Irish people have come around to the fact that we should not be simply satisfied with our lot and that we should be standing up for what we want. This concept of "the peasants revolting", if you like, is such a new concept to Eircom that they can't deal with it and try to fight back the "revolution", e.g. trying desperately to hold onto their monopoly at all costs.

As I said, it's only within the last few years, probably during the Celtic Tiger years, that the Irish people came about to the fact that they were no longer "peasants" and were a bit better off than before and, as a result, demanded more and better services. We have seen this across the board but not so much within the telecoms/internet sector. A few people complained about phone costs being too high, so Eircom thought, "Okay, let's drop call prices a bit to keep them happy." But, as the whole telecoms sector changed around the world, Eircom remained stuck in their old ways and refused to change with the times. The widespread launch of flat-rate internet access packages across Europe is a good example of this. But, when we saw what was happening abroad, we started asking for flat-rate and Eircom have flatly refused, still doggedly refusing to change with the times.

Unfortunately, so far, it is only the handful of tech-savvy users in Ireland who are looking for flat-rate or DSL services. Until more people are educated about how we are being ripped off, and more people start demanding for these services, Eircom will not give in.

That is the first problem but the second is the inherent attitude of the Irish people when it comes to demanding and fighting for what they want. I feel that the Irish people as a whole have this in-built attitude of tending to settle for what they have. For God's sake, the English ruled over us for hundreds of years and we settled for it and it wasn't until a handful of revolutionaries got together, spread the word and drummed up more support until the whole country were behind them that they were able to get their freedom from the English. At the moment, the general public are just settling for what they have and it's going to take a bunch of revolutionaries like Ireland Offline and their members to spread the word and take the fight to Eircom. I think the French have the right attitude because, let's face it, they are very much a revolutionary people but the Irish, at the moment as a whole, are not.

As for Bertie doing something about all this, I agree that he can and should do something. After all, he pushed the whole "Eircom are the best thing since sliced bread. Invest your hard-earned money in Eircom shares!", idea and loads of people got stung by this ploy. Eircom are single-handedly holding up the development of the internet in this country. Therefore, Bertie should get up off his ar$e and do something to tackle Eircom and sort out this mess. If he had the guts to do that he'd get my vote, but, seeing as he doesn't seem to, he won't be getting my X on the ballot paper.

Paddy20

Aidan,

Spot on. My biggest worry is how to educate the general public as quickly as possible, before the election - about just how much they have and are being led up the garden path to personal bankruptcy by the per minute online charge levied on them by Eircom.

That is why I suggested the "Postcard" campaign which mirrors the anti-sellafield campaign diercted at Mr Tony Blair MP. A suggestion which is continuing to receive positive postings. Have you read my thread on " New- Suggestion to Lobbying Group"?.

You are absolutely correct about the need for the general public to be made aware of the FULL and TRUE picture which must by now be hitting the pockets of most of the "Breadwinners" in most households in Ireland.

The British legacy of a very effective "Propaganda machine" which Ireland inherited, has not been ignored by all political parties since the foundation of the free state. However, a peaceful peasants revolution is in the air, and if Mr Bertie Ahern T.D. in particular has not acted positively on the flat rate internet access issue before he calls the election. I am afraid he will suffer the bitter taste of defeat in his mouth.

However, as I previously stated "HE" can sort this out today if he wants. He is a straight talker afraid of no one or no business including Eircom!!. So, please Bertie use your street savvy, your gut instinct, and that Dublin technique of getting what you want !, you were not born with a silver or golden spoon in your mouth. You got where you are through sheer bloody hard work and "Straight Talking" you have also stepped on many so called "powerful peoples toes" along the way. You are a man of the "People" do not now turn your back on what the members of this voluntary organisation need you too do NOW , and pick up that phone! before it is too late. A Day in Politics is a long one!.

Yours, paddy20:rolleyes:

Dustaz

Hmm, this is starting to stray off topic.

Personally i dont really mind reading what net sevices cost in other countries because its interesting to know. However, i bear in mind when i read them that Ireland is a different animal to the other countries mentioned so the figures are irrelevant really.

Please keep on topic with this. Theres plenty of other threads for anti eircom and anti govt rants

Richard Barry

Originally posted by paddy20
Richard,

I have just read the "English" version, thanks to the link you posted.

May I suggest too Ireland OFFline that they consider using this to support the basic right of the Irish internet users as fellow - European Citizens - to the same type of service which is now being made available in France.

I believe we as a people should "DEMAND" it and not go cap in hand requesting someone in some Gov dept or Eircom too maybe consider letting us have a fair Unmetered internet access service. It is our right and I for one want it NOW!. Before the election.

It is inevetable, the service that we all want can be given too all sectors of our society. As for the argument that Irelands consumer base is not large enough too profitably sustain a "Unmeterd flat rate internet access service" BALDERDASH!.

We are Europeans and as such we are entitled too a Telecomms service here that reflects that which is already available throughout the rest of Europe, are we not - Am I right , or am I wrong?.

Lets STOP pussyfooting around . A General Election is about too be called and our campaign is a "just and fair" ELECTION ISSUE,
whether or not Mr Bertie Ahern T.D. likes it or not - is his problem.

Bertie, Get your act together - use your clout NOW - I personally know that you are more than capable of sorting out the current internet flat rate service "fiasco" so do it, before the election.

Otherwise, you may have just commited political suicide - and I do not believe that is what you want in reality. So "COP ON" & GET REAL on this issue, make a few damn phone calls TODAY??.

Yours, paddy20 :mad:

Absolutely!

If Ireland is too small for unmetred access - how can the phone company in Monaco afford to offer it? EUR 52 per month. Incl webspace, e-mail addresses, plug and play DIY install - the works.

Population 32,000

Movie streaming too - watch a video from the Vivendi Universal library on your PC from between EUR 3 and EUR 6 per movie per 24 hour period.

http://www.monaco-telecom.mc/

Andorra (pop 50,000) has flat rate ISDN and are DSL is in the process of being rolled out.

Just look at the choice of ISP services in Luxembourg (Pop 350,000) http://www.providers.lu/index.html

Our government left BT takeover IOL, ESAT.net, IEUnet, PostGEM, and Ocean (from ESB). BT promptly shut down the only "flat rate" dial up service (no limits) and now they are talking about shutting down their European operations to concentrate on GB.

NTL have run out of money because they paid far too much for every company they bought.

Chorus and eircom are in the same stable.

Heavy users will quickly run up 3 GB on i-solo and then you are talking about EUR 30 + VAT per Gig after that.

What a con!

R.

Tellox

nice post richard... hope your taking notes IoffL..

Richard Barry

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
a german mate of mine gave me a list of all german prices.

i really felt like crying, 1024/256 for €105 a month no cap and €50 installation. They have nething from €20 upwards.

In Germany on DT you have to have ISDN to use DSL. In Ireland if you want to change from ISDN to DSL you have to go back to an analog line!

A DSL upgrade on Deutsche Telekom costs €9.98 on top of the monthly ISDN charge of €28.07 – ie €38.05 (http://www.telekom.de/dtag/home/portal/0,14925,11032,00.html)

On top of that you have to pay for the ISP – there’s a big choice - ie for about EUR 60 per month you get unlimited DSL traffic, + an ISDN connection which allows you to make two calls at the same time and a good quality ISP feed. A particular issue in Ireland where contention rates are sky high in many parts of the country and on all ISPs – making the speed of connection between you and your ISP irrelevant. And Detusche Telekom charges much less for ISDN calls than those made from a POTS line. International calls on Deutsche Telekom’s network are priced at about half what eircom charge.

Swisscom (www.swisscom.ch) charge CHF 49 (about €30) per month for their BlueWindow DSL service – and you can upgrade speed all the way to 2 Mbit/sec – see http://bluewin.planetactive.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Bluewin.woa/54/wo/pM7u9faOTmg72LllIp1NRSUFm4q/11.9 for a little more than eircom charge for 512k!!!

Luxembourg Visual Online from EUR 19.90 per month ADSL. www.vo.lu

Spain’s Telefonica €42.04 per month (http://www.terra.es/adsl/precio.htm )


I could go on with a country by country tour playing the same tune – hopefully even the most sceptical get the picture.

Links to a few of the main portal sites:

Spain’s Terra www.terra.es
Italy’s Tiscali www.tiscali.it
France’s Wanadoo www.wanadoo.fr
Switzerland’s multilingual BlueWindow www.bluewin.ch
Germany’s www.t-online.de

R.

Paddy20

Richard,

The material you have posted is totally mindblowing!!.

Who can logically argue with those facts and or the links/to more facts.

Your material combined with the information that "Yellum" is posting on my thread " New- Suggestion to Lobbying Group" Please have a look?. Is becoming the information equivelant of semtex.

I will have too study and digest this material over the week-end with a view to putting it all in to a shape that the General Public and Newspaper readers could easily digest. Be they computer buffs or more likely the parents of same!.

If this material is handled correctly - then it will become the most prominent election issue on the tip of everyones tongue - and that in my view includes "The right to a flat - rate Unmetered internet access service as of "Yesterday" no longer now or to-morrow. I want too know in black and white in a written letter from our Government. Why we have been so badly let down on this particular issue up to now and what are they going to do about this unfair FIASCO.

Yours, paddy20