Recent events lower your impression of the church?

azezil

If someone asked me this question a week ago I would have said no. Although I don't believe in God, I thought the idea of organised religion was a good one, but then I watched the Late Late Show last Friday, they had a victim of sexual abuse one and representatives from the church.

Anyway during the course of the interview when the priest talked of the "brain washing" priests under go, that they "believe themselves superior" to other people! This infuriated me I couldn't believe what I was hearing, then as the interview continued I my opinion of the church dropped more and more.

I was of the opinion that such backward beliefs were done away with during the reformation! apparently not...

NeRb666

The catholic church in Ireland is rotten from top to bottom, the recent "revelations" only confirm what most right thinking people already thought. Still hard to believe that so many are still fanatical about them, saw an interview with a DJ in Wexford who had people calling up threatening to kill him for discussing the whole Comisky affair last week. Idiots.

DMC

I voted no, because in my opinion of the church hasn't changed. There are still some very good priests out there, and they are still in the majority.

But I totally agree that this last week has seen a big shift in public opinion against the bishops. These are they guys doing the hiding, these are the guys who are losing face. They have been locking this away for years, and we have all known that. Thats why my opinion hasn't changed. A new documentary has just pushed this back into the spotlight again. Fortune the bastard has been known about and been reported for the last 6 or 7 years. Its been quiet, and now, since the cases in Boston have been reported, its back on topic.

Questions need to be answered. Fast.

Blitzkrieger

Nothing could ever lower my impression of the church...........and yet somehow my uncle Tony (a priest) thinks I want to become a priest

Stephen

My opinion of the church couldn't be lower.

its a fvcking sham.

My ould ma still thinks that i'll "return to the flock" when I'm old and wise (or something).

Shinji

My ould ma still thinks that i'll "return to the flock" when I'm old and wise

Indeed, mine is still convinced I'm going through a "phase". I'm not sure at which point this stops being a "phase" and achieves permanency - it's been ongoing for about a decade now

(My personal brush with religion came along the lines of having the concept of God explained at a young age, considering it for a moment and deciding it was a silly idea. I've yet to come across anything to convince me otherwise...)


On the topic - indeed, just when you think you can't think any less of the Church in Ireland, they always manage to come out with some stunner to prove you wrong. The emptier the pews in the churches get, the happier I'll be.

Bard

The church is a heap of shite. No new revelation could lower my estimation of it much further, - so I vote NO.

gandalf

Voted No as well I already have a very low opinion of the Church, biggest landlord in the world.

Gandalf.

Keeks

Voted no aswell.

I've always had a low opinion of the church, but thats got to do more with its hypocritical teaching rather than any new revelations.

RampagingBadger

My opinion of the church hasn't really changed but my opinion of the Bishops has. In particular of Cardinal Daly. The new Bishop of Ferns is due to be a man with a legal background who will without a doubt put the enquiry through a lot of unnecessary pain to get to the truth. It just goes to show that the catholic church is acting covering it's ass again. This is hardly what you'd expect from the people who are supposed to be our moral guardians.

seamus

Originally posted by Keeks
Voted no aswell.

I've always had a low opinion of the church, but thats got to do more with its hypocritical teaching rather than any new revelations.

Same for me. My opinion couldn't get much lower. This has been going on for a long time, and similar scandals have broken out before. Their problems are far from disappearing.

tHE vAGGABOND

The church is a heap of ****e

here here

Its a fuppin scandal that those priests can mess about with kids and not get put in jail to rot..

Terminator

My impressions of the catholic church plus other organised religions couldn't get any lower

Xterminator

I voted yes.

I can understand that criminal types appear in all walks of life.

I can understand that someone in a position of power might abuse that power such as father fortune. While regretable, this is not nessacarily the churches fault!

But the actions of the church once they knew is what really galls me.
To protect the priests from the law.
To relocate them where they are not know so they can re-offend.
To maintain a blanket of silence and secrecy, knowing the victims are suffering, but doing nothing to lessen their suffering.

Shame

X

Victor

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND
Its a fuppin scandal that those priests can mess about with kids and not get put in jail to rot..

But the church doesn't have jails, the state has jails, it is for the state to investigate and where necessary prosecute these crimes.

Originally posted by Xterminator
But the actions of the church once they knew is what really galls me. To protect the priests from the law.

If people want paedophiles punished by the state then they should go to the state. Going to the church means the church can only use its means to deal with the matter.

smiles

My opinion of the church remains unchanged.

There's some figure out there was shows that largest percentage of sex-offenders within Ireland was farmers. Does that change your feelings about them?

Sex-abuse was never *taught* to priests, it just is much more contraversial when it comes into light.

It's horrible, regardless and irrespective of the group the offender is part of.

<< Fio >>

Shinji

There's some figure out there was shows that largest percentage of sex-offenders within Ireland was farmers. Does that change your feelings about them?

Nah. I don't think my opinion of farmers could possibly get any lower than it already is. At least the Church had margin to move downwards

Kalina

The church in this country is an absolute disgrace. It's a pity that in the past people relied so heavily on their faith that they trusted the clergy with the care of their children without question. It's a huge betrayal that the lives of many of these children who were left in the care of so called men and women of God were destroyed.
I believe that there are good and decent priests, nuns and brothers in the Irish clergy but as more and more of that clergy are being implicated in abuse cases one's faith in the church is shaken.

Wook

Nothing has happend during the last weeks that has not been going on for ages.
The church in all it's glory has killed many innocent people that were different or even tried to be different (see-Witches) See, Indian people from Rain forest, ETC) Crusaders,

Just glance at the history books and you find a bloody trail of 'Faith'. How many people need to die in the name of 'the Lord'?
How many cruel systems of death did they not invent to get a confession?

If this Belief has anything of value and based on Facts, then this must be a religion that is at the top of the 'Most kills' list

beardedchicken

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
Nothing could ever lower my impression of the church...........

me too, but that's because it couldnt possibly be much lower!!

smiles

If people didn't kill in the name of "faith", they'd find some other, meaningless, excuse to do so.

<< Fio >>

Eowyn

I voted no because ive always had a very low opinon of the church. I mean I have great faith in my religion but none in the church itself. I know that not all priests are bad and i realy stress that. In fact i know many priests that are lovely people and wonderful at there job. I also know that there job ( vocation ) is an extremly tough one which is made even tougher by the fact that they must remain celibate and never marry ( as they are already married to God! ). I respect that and I have great admiration for that. To be honest I think that most of the blame is to be given to the superiors of these priests, monks, nuns and every other religious order. I dont think it can be said that the pope in all his papal glory, or any of his staff have ever done anything practical to help people. Its very good of them to sit in there beautiful churches and homes and pray for all of our lost souls but what good is that to the starving MILLIONS in third world countries, and i cant realy see that bringing back the legs, arms and other limbs that children have lost from land mines in the middle east!!! Not many people realise that the vatican is one of the richest countries in the world!
As for these child abuse scandals and sexual assults on children in the care of religious orders..... Its being going on for years!! Yet the church has the gaul to turn around and act shocked at whats coming out almost EVERY DAY now about different priests and nuns and brothers.... They have always known yet they decided to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it wasn't there just in case it might go away by itself! Now they want to set up an inquiry into these, as they call them "allegations" so that and i quote Cardenal Daly here "the truth can be found". The truth dosn't need to be found because it was never lost..... They've always known. Nothing has been said tho as to who will conduct this inquiry and in what manner....... that has yet to be seen...
I would love to be able to say that I faith in my church but I can't and I think that the truth is not many people do anymore. My wish is that by the time i'm teaching my kids about religion (many many years from now!!!) ill be able to tell them that there was a time when the church many a balls of things.....but that they stud up and took the flack for what they did......and that now things are different.

There's some figure out there was shows that largest percentage of sex-offenders within Ireland was farmers. Does that change your feelings about them?

I have to say that this is a realy good point but farmers aren't entrusted on a daly basis with the care of an entire community or groups of children!! and as well as that the majority of sexual assults that the religious community commited were on children which i think u will agree are far more disgusting than any other type of sexual crime.

Wook

why is that , that those religious people can't have sex ?
Are we not build to have some once in awhile? Does it not goes against nature to have a relation? Why do they promote family life and not be able to have one their own? Why is that those people working with children are not screened as is done in any other place?

TwoShedsJackson

The major reason Catholic priests are supposed to remain celibate these days, is because of the huge amount of property the Church owns (largest landlord in the world as Gandalf mentioned earlier).

If priests could have wives, children, families, then they could leave the property the Church gives them to live in, to their next of kin, thus reducing the Church's wealth and power. There could be claims made on their estates etc.

At no point in the Bible does it say that priests are to remain celibate, it was a rule added by the earliest Hierarchy, and became entrenched over time.

Keeks

I don't think its got to do with money CT. These church laws were created b4 the divorce court. I thinks its got more to so with the fact the Jesus didn't get married, and these ppl are supposed to be jesus represintives here, ans as such they are to lead a celibate life just like he did, as an example to us. A sacrifice as an example of there love for God

Aspro

[I don't think its got to do with money CT.

Everything has got to do with money and power, Keeks. Castor has hit the nail right on the head.

The hierarchy of the church live in luxury and are consumed by their own self-importance. They are a power structure and one of the key features of any power structure is the desire for self-preservation. This is why they are so far removed from the lives of ordinary catholics and have gone to every extent to deny and obfuscate the issue of clerical child abuse.

While I am an avowed atheist I would never detract from someone else's religious beliefs. However, the institution of the church disgusts me. It did before, and even more so now.

Meh

Originally posted by smiles
There's some figure out there was shows that largest percentage of sex-offenders within Ireland was farmers. Does that change your feelings about them?

Not a very good analogy. Farmers don't associate with other people's children as part of their farming work. The Irish Farmers Association doesn't shelter and protect farmers accused of child abuse by, for example, moving them to farms in other parts of the country.

Anyway, my opinion of the Catholic Church hasn't changed a bit. I still dislike the arrogance and elitism of the hierarchy.

Blitzkrieger

not sure if it's been said but a lot of peeps seem to be voting for the wrong reasons.

Voting 'no' would indicate your faith in the church has not been lowered, despite the recent scandals

'yes' would mean it has

Eowyn

The main reason the church gives for not allowing priests or orther orders to marry as well is because they are "married to god!"