Pro Palestinian Demo

dathi1

Saturday outside the Central Bank at 1...see yeez there

blondi

Nice 1 dathi, see you there..!

should I post my photo here ?

I wouldn't want 'Mossad' to shoot the wrong man, woman, or child......?

Typedef

Excellent, this kind of move is long overdue and I for one will definately be there, moreover I would be very willing to mount 'some' kind of protest outside of the Israeli (and possibly) US embassay.

Off-Topic:
In any case I think a strong case can be made for the handing in of a letter of protest to one or both ambassadors.

On a more proactive note, I think the crisis in the Middle East has now reached such pan demic proportions that members of the European Union should in a beligerant and pan spectrum mode, impose a trade embargo on the state of Israel.
This is something the EU could 'encourage' it's member states to participate in and it would 'not' require the ascent of the US like a UN trade embargo would.

European nations could not win a war with Israel due to American military hegemony even if such a desire existed in Europe, however no matter how pan spectrum American military hegemony is and how necessary such American carte blanche support of Israeli colonialism is to the survival of Israel if all of the current members of the EU took it upon themselves to impose a trade embargo on Israel, Israel would be compelled to soften it's polciies vis-a-vis Palestine due to the crippeling effects on the Israeli economy such a trade sanction would impose.

I believe a Pan-EU trade embargo with Israel is quite feasable and that it shold be implemented right now as the support definately exists across the EU for such a move. Call it foreign policy, hell call it a lemon if you like, but get it done.
The bottom line is that states that have had a greater significancy with regard to trade have in the past have had war waged on them or embargos imposed on them so I can find no compelling reason not to impose trade restrictions 'indefinately' on the state of Israel, until such time as it redresses it's beligerent policies with regard to engaging with the bare criteria laid out by 9x% of the UN and the international community at large.

Typedef.

Typedef

Originally posted by blondi
Nice 1 dathi, see you there..!

should I post my photo here ?

I wouldn't want 'Mossad' to shoot the wrong man, woman, or child......?

No but do wear your Sunday best, as you certainly don't want your first Mossad or CIA photo to be anything less then an as enblazened and chizzeled version of yourself as it can be.

Laugh.

Biffa Bacon

Here's an idea: instead of having a pro-Palestinian rally (chance of influencing anyone...zero), why not have a rally calling on EU sanctions against Israel as Typedef suggested (chance of influencing anyone...greater than zero)?

blondi

Biffa makes a good point dathi ?

Economic sanctions would hit them where it hurts them most......

Hobbes

I thought there were already protesters outside the embassy? It was on RTE news. Also there was some girl up in the tree outside refusing to eat or come down.. although that was a few days ago. Don't know if she's still there.

JustHalf

You do knwo this mean BUY VIA or AMD don't you?

dathi1

Sanctions......na We're just there for a press opportunity (Hopefully) to show the Palestinians that we're with them in the quest for a state. Turn up anyway...you might even enjoy yourself even reef might come lIMERICK ISNT THAT FAR AWAY...ps I do spanish point surf aswell!!

Victor

Originally posted by JustHalf
You do knwo this mean BUY VIA or AMD don't you?

But what about Intel?

I suspect most of our trade with Israel is in industrial diamonds, computer chips, software and the like.

"Parthus to merge with Israeli technology company"
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0405/breaking17.htm

ReefBreak

I would attend this demo only for the fact that I know that it's not really a peace rally:
- no one in the crowd will be uttering one syllable calling for an end palestinian terrorism
- no one will be mentioning the fact that Arafat has been calling for more martyrs in Arabic (as compared to his softly, softly tone in English)

- it'll be run by the Socialist Workers Party/Socialist Party who are far more interested in advancing theor political ideals and ignoring the actions of terrorism than supporting peace.

But apart from that, I do think Sharon is a scumbag.

Yes, I know Daithi1 - I should get off the fence and stop being neutral. But like Ireland, I am neutral. Are you? And do you support peace?

dathi1

it'll be run by the Socialist Workers Party/Socialist Party

Well I wont be anywhere near them...... yes Reef for Peace but not at the price of death and humiliation of People who deserve a State as much as we do and everybody else.

gandalf

Man listen to you all going on about having rallies about EU sanctions etc. Why don't you start small, if you have a problem with the Isreali Governments actions , don't buy Isreali goods, (normally fresh produce in the supermarket) tell the shops manager that you would like them to source alternative goods/brands from somewhere other than Isreal...etc etc I think you get the idea.

I agreed 100% with Reefbreak nearly all of these protests are SWP muppets jumping on the next bandwagon.

Gandalf.

colinsky

Of course, there's those of us who have a problem with palestinians, but there's nothing useful they make that we can boycott.

Victor

Originally posted by colinsky
but there's nothing useful they make that we can boycott.

Well actually they used to make lots of things until hundreds of thousands of them were prevented from going to work.

handyandy

McKenna calls for EU sanctions against Israel

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0405/breaking57.htm

colinsky

Ahh...something meaty to discuss


<< Calling for the EU to impose trade sanctions against Israel, Ms McKenna said that "The EU has been very swift in retaliating to the US raising its steel tariffs with similar trade sanctions. If it can impose sanctions for trade reasons, surely they can do the same for human rights reasons. >>


The US steel tariffs, I feel, were _wrong_. The EU retalliation was, IMHO, at least as wrong, if not more...going along with the whole notion that "two wrongs don't make a right." It's like the critique of the death penalty that it is hypocritical to sanction murder as a punishment for murder. If murder is wrong, it is wrong whether or not the state is involved.

If you really support free trade, you should be against sanctions for whatever reason. Otherwise, you can't claim any moral highground in criticising the US (or any other) trade sanctions.

dathi1

Of course, there's those of us who have a problem with palestinians, but there's nothing useful they make that we can boycott.

Just like us about 10 years ago.

handyandy

Originally posted by colinsky
If you really support free trade, you should be against sanctions for whatever reason. Otherwise, you can't claim any moral highground in criticising the US (or any other) trade sanctions.

Lets sell, nuclear weapons to Iraq then to stop them developing the technology themselves. All in the name of free trade of course!

Hobbes

Originally posted by handyandy
McKenna calls for EU sanctions against Israel

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0405/breaking57.htm

This should be really intresting for US based companies if it ever went through.

Basically any US company in the EU has to apply by the US Export laws. One of those laws forbids the companies from agreeing with such sanctions. If they break the law they get either a heavy fine or thier export license revoked (basically can no longer do business outside of the US).

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by dathi1
Sanctions......na We're just there for a press opportunity (Hopefully) to show the Palestinians that we're with them in the quest for a state.

Quite right! We need more talk and less action!
It's good to know that you'll be attending this rally without the slightest belief that it will matter a damn.

dathi1

It's good to know that you'll be attending this rally without the slightest belief that it will matter a damn.

read why we're doing it and I don't think you can come to that conclusion.

Boston

I was at the rally. it was quite big and we marched to the gpo, i didnt go to the embassy.

One impression I got from it is that its not as simple as we here on this forum make it out to be, we deal with external issues, were more concerned with the fact the us are hypocrites and fair and even handed handling of the situation then the actions on the ground.

I do agree with trade embargos with Israel, after this disgraceful display they made to the eu delegation

bonkey

Originally posted by ReefBreak

- no one will be mentioning the fact that Arafat has been calling for more martyrs in Arabic (as compared to his softly, softly tone in English)

This is the seond or third time Ive seen this mentioned on these threads, and I'm now curious :

1) When did this happen - the guy is pretty much in seclusion. 'Has been calling' impliews currency - and he couldnt have dont it that recently, locked up in his building with no communications n all.

2) Why do the public seem aware of it, but the international leaders havent condemned him from a height and sided 100% with Israel. It makes no sense that anyone would deal with him in any way if this were as simple as you make it seem.

3) How do we know this as a fact - no offense Reef, but do you speak Arabic, or is it that you heard someone reporting that someone else has claimed to have heard Arafat doing this - which is a million miles away from 'fact".

jc

Typedef

Yeah I went as far as the GPO, but skipped the march on the Embassy, partly to attempt to placate being photographed by the Mossad and partly because I didn't really fancy the walk to the embassy.

I will needless to say be boycotting Israeli goods where-ever I can. As the land war showed in Ireland Boycotting (after Captain Boycott) is a non aggressive yet extremely effective weapon, so long as the purposes of the boycott are clearly spelled out and it's effects measurable as consequences of a recognised boycott.

For people who are detracting the march as being hijacked by the Socialist Workers I would point out that Joe Costello of Labour and John Gormley of the Green Party and Prionsioas De Rossa were present at the rally. Three high profile politicians and are demonstrably more mainstream than the Socialist Workers movement.

I think that an EU trade embargo is the best hope of pressuring Israel to comply with a lexicon of UN resolutions that should never have existed to begin with. I will needless to say be voting accordingly in the upcoming general election, for what it's worth.

Typedef.

dathi1

Yes just back myself.....went very well..gt on Arab Tv aswell what did you think of our Flags? Hickey's came in handy.

dathi1

Just hit Euronews too.! Brilliant!

Gargoyle

This should be really intresting for US based companies if it ever went through.

Basically any US company in the EU has to apply by the US Export laws. One of those laws forbids the companies from agreeing with such sanctions. If they break the law they get either a heavy fine or thier export license revoked (basically can no longer do business outside of the US).

I'm not sure I understand (or possibly I'm just not familiar) with this Hobbes. Are you saying they would be breaking US laws if they do comply with the hypothetical sanctions and breaking EU laws if they don't?

kim tong-jung

Sharon is a war criminal wanted by Belgium and the Hague.
He should be put on trial for war crimes!

kim_tong_jung11@yahoo.co.kr

The Israali primeminister is a war criminal.
He got War criminals and killers out of prison, dressed them up in soldier uniform.
Armed them with knives gun bombs and torture instruments.Sent them in to the small population of 2000 people

Attorney-General Elyakim Rubinstein charged yesterday that the indictment in Belgium against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and former IDF officers linked to the 1982 Sabra and Shatila Massacre was a political rather than a judicial act.
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/07/11/News/News.30175.html

USA-Rat-Arse(USA-Ronin (Mar 2 2002 - 15:36)\)read this
An American wrote this:

Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, is one of the world's most bloodstained terrorists. He is responsible for the cold-blooded slaughter of at least 1,500 men, women and children in the Beirut refugee camps of Chatila and Sabra. Even a formal Israeli commission found Sharon personally responsible for the Lebanese massacres.(4)

In 1982, as Israel's defense minister, Sharon directed Israel's invasion of Lebanon and the carpet bombing and devastation of the city of Beirut (In Lebanon five times more women and children died than in the September New York attack). This terror bombing was carried out by Jews using jet fighters and bombs supplied by the United States.

After the Israeli military devastation and occupation, Sharon forcibly removed Palestinian resistance fighters from Lebanon. Many Palestinian women, children and old people were left behind in refugee camps near Beirut. The United States publicly guaranteed their safety and promised that they would quickly be reunited with their loved ones. When Sharon plotted their murder, he not only planned a bloody act of terrorism against the refugees; he knew it was an act of treachery against the United States that would raise intense hatred against America.

On the night of September 16, 1982, Sharon sent Phalangist murder squads into two Palestinian refugee camps, Sabra and Chatila. With Israeli tanks and troops closely surrounding the camps to prevent any of the Palestinians from escaping, the murder squads machine-gunned, bayoneted, and bludgeoned Palestinian civilians all that night, the next day and the following night; all while the Israelis surrounding the camps listened gleefully to the machine gun fire and screams coming from inside. Sharon then sent in bulldozers to hide as much of the atrocity as he could. At least 2000 old men, women and children were butchered, and perhaps as many as 2500. (An official Lebanese investigation set the figure at 2500) Even after the efforts of Sharon's bulldozers, many Palestinians remained unburied, and Red Cross workers found whole families; including hundreds of elderly and little children, with their throats cut or disemboweled. Uncounted numbers of women and girls were also raped before they were slaughtered.

Ariel Sharon is sought for trial by the Hague Tribunal, the same body that succeeded in extraditing former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic for charges of crimes against humanity in Kosovo. Sharon will not travel to Belgium for fear of arrest by the International Court for the massacre.(5)
http://www.minneapolis.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=3533

. EVEN A FORMAL ISRAELI commission found Sharon PERSONALLY responsible for the Lebanese massacres.(

Atama Ii (Jan 18 2002 - 08:00)
"Wasn't Sharon, after all, the one that said that Israel controlled the U.S.?"
Do you have more info on this. Just curious....

I will have a look 4 you, but I think it may be controll in a more indirect tacticall fashion.

Heres an example:

"Many Palestinian women, children and old people were left behind in refugee camps near Beirut. The United States publicly guaranteed their safety and promised that they would quickly be reunited with their loved ones. When Sharon plotted their murder, he not only planned a bloody act of terrorism against the refugees; he knew it was an act of treachery against the United States that would raise intense hatred against America."

http://www.minneapolis.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=3533

A good example of a smaller country outwitting and tactically controlling a larger one!
Read The Article,
"Sharon regrets not killing Arafat"


:squareeyed:

colinsky

Originally posted by Victor

Well actually they used to make lots of things until hundreds of thousands of them were prevented from going to work.

Well, if they ever realize that conducting business profitably involves developing favorable relationships with customers, rather than blowing up restaurants and knocking down buildings in New York, their "workers" might get a tad of my sympathy.

Gargoyle

I think this was missed with Kim Tong Jung's spamming of the board, so I'l ask it again.

Originally posted by Gargoyle



I'm not sure I understand (or possibly I'm just not familiar) with this Hobbes. Are you saying they would be breaking US laws if they do comply with the hypothetical sanctions and breaking EU laws if they don't?

Victor

Originally posted by colinsky
Well, if they ever realize that conducting business profitably involves developing favorable relationships with customers, rather than blowing up restaurants and knocking down buildings in New York, their "workers" might get a tad of my sympathy.

Are you somehow trying to link the ordinary Palestinian people with the attack on the World Trade Centre? And are you saying that all Palestinians are responsible for a small minority of extremists?

The reason so many Palestinians are unemployed is due to Israeli actions (border closures amd the like), not Palestinian ones.

colinsky

Originally posted by Victor


Are you somehow trying to link the ordinary Palestinian people with the attack on the World Trade Centre? And are you saying

While not "the ones piloting the planes", the Palestinians, by their support of Islam, are inherently guilty of endorsing attacks made in its name.

(In the same way, that, for instance, a supporter of the Catholic Church provides, through their membership, inherent endorsement of the Church's policies on homosexuality and abortion).

---

"Those who distinguish between America and Israel are the real enemies of the nation. They are traitors who betrayed God and His prophet, and who betrayed their nation and the trust placed in them. They anesthetize the nation.

These battles cannot be viewed in any case whatsoever as isolated battles, but rather, as part of a chain of the long, fierce, and ugly crusader war.

--Osama Bin Laden
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0111/S00049.htm



"And to America, I stay to it and to its people this: I swear by God the Great, America will never dream nor those who live in America will never taste security and safety unless we feel security and safety in our land and in Palestine. "

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/strike_binladentrans011007.html


"London - Governments around the world offered condolences for the devastating terrorist attack while in contrast, thousands of Palestinians celebrated in the West Bank and in Lebanese refugee camps."

--Associated press, http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=5520

Victor

Originally posted by colinsky
While not "the ones piloting the planes", the Palestinians, by their support of Islam, are inherently guilty of endorsing attacks made in its name.

(In the same way, that, for instance, a supporter of the Catholic Church provides, through their membership, inherent endorsement of the Church's policies on homosexuality and abortion).

My you are some troll aren't you? Yes, the Catholic Church has specific philosophies (not policies) on homosexuality and abortion, but it does not in any way condone gay bashing, does it? Likewise would you condemn the Church of Ireland for the Catholic Church's philosophies?

Islam (and please note that Al Quaida and the Palestinians generally belong to different sects) preaches peace, it condemns attacks on the unarmed. Al Quaida hi-jacked religion, people and airplanes.

colinsky

Originally posted by Victor

My you are some troll aren't you? Yes, the Catholic Church has specific philosophies (not policies) on homosexuality and abortion, but it does not in any way condone gay bashing, does it? Likewise would you condemn the Church of Ireland for the Catholic Church's philosophies?

Islam (and please note that Al Quaida and the Palestinians generally belong to different sects) preaches peace, it condemns attacks on the unarmed. Al Quaida hi-jacked religion, people and airplanes.

Well, supposing we're invoking the Shia/Sunni distinction, we can wonder then at what condemnation the Palestinians ever showed against the (peaceful?) fatwa against (the seemingly unarmed) Salman Rushdie?

I believe that it is not just Al Qaeda who is the problem. If we look at the history of plane hijackings, embassy bombings, attacks on restuarants and shops, death threats against authors, etc., it seems clear to me that while the murders tend to come from different countries, different background, different financial classes, different sects, their religion _does_ remain a commonality.

I don't consider myself a troll. However, my wife and I did move to Ireland from Manhattan at the end of last April, and I wonder that if we had delayed our trip by only a couple weeks she (or I for that matter) could have been targeted. I do take that extremely personally.


(As for the Church of Ireland, I'm not really knowledgable of what their specific relation is with the Vatican to comment at the moment)

Victor

Did you personally issue a press statement on the Fatwa on Salman Rushdie? Assuming you are also human, can I not call on your humanity to issue such a statement?

Originally posted by colinsky
I believe that it is not just Al Qaeda who is the problem. If we look at the history of plane hijackings, embassy bombings, attacks on restuarants and shops, death threats against authors, etc., it seems clear to me that while the murders tend to come from different countries, different background, different financial classes, different sects, their religion _does_ remain a commonality.

This is because you are being selective. Will you condemn the Catholic Church for the war in Croatia or Buddhism for the wars in South East Asia?

Oh, and I seem to remember Bush invoking a Crusade (where heathens, man, woman and child, are butchered first and judged after).

Originally posted by colinsky
I don't consider myself a troll. However, my wife and I did move to Ireland from Manhattan at the end of last April, and I wonder that if we had delayed our trip by only a couple weeks she (or I for that matter) could have been targeted. I do take that extremely personally.

Why what happened in May?

Originally posted by colinsky
(As for the Church of Ireland, I'm not really knowledgable of what their specific relation is with the Vatican to comment at the moment)

Church of Ireland would be roughly Anglican / Church of England.

colinsky

Originally posted by Victor
Why what happened in May?

Church of Ireland would be roughly Anglican / Church of England.

Err.. August.

Victor

Originally posted by colinsky
Err.. August.

Eh ... caught you out?

colinsky

Originally posted by Victor

Eh ... caught you out?

Well, caught me typing too fast. Twas August...22nd.

I'll try to say a little bit, but I should be back to work.

Originally posted by Victor
This is because you are being selective. Will you condemn the Catholic Church for the war in Croatia or Buddhism for the wars in South East Asia?

Personally, I do believe that almost all major interpersonal strife is due to religion, and that the major purpose of organized religion is for behavior control and to ritualize power in the hands of those who control their religious behavior.

I am strongly against violence. As for the Palestinians, I believe there has been enough evidence that their violence is not just a group of fanatics, but a widespread behavior -- being "just a kid, only throwing rocks" not an justifiable excuse. I also believe that Islam -- and how the religion conceptualizes violence against innocents as an acceptible means for personal gain -- is a major contributing factor. The fact the their leader, Arafat, does appear to share responsibility doesn't help the cause of that their (or _any_ violence is "justfiable") -- with the possible exception of self-defence. As long as such attacks continue, I believe that the Israelis do have the right to self-defense.

Loomer

Originally posted by colinsky



Well, if they ever realize that conducting business profitably involves developing favorable relationships with customers, rather than blowing up restaurants and knocking down buildings in New York, their "workers" might get a tad of my sympathy.

That really displays a lack of intelligence in forming a competent argument and if that wasnt enough you large brush goes on to tar the whole of Islam in your following rebuttal.

Originally posted by colinsky


...we can wonder then at what condemnation the Palestinians ever showed against the (peaceful?) fatwa against (the seemingly unarmed) Salman Rushdie?

??? What relevance does this statement have. Ayatollah Khomeini issued this fatwa on Feb 14 1989. Using your flawed logic you are suggesting that the entire Islam race are programmable automotons unable of independent thought. You seem unable to give followers of religions, islamic and christian alike, any credence of common sense.

It is quite clear to me that a select group of individuals from the USA who flaunt these xenophobic racist remarks are responsible for affecting non-americans( and some more intelligent americans) with a disdainful view of your country. I believe that this americo-centric attitude, unfortunately goes a long way in fueling the hatred towards your native country in many places around the globe. More important than any political initiatives that are put forward I believe this destructive attitude should be remedied first and foremost.

colinsky

]Originally posted by Loomer
It is quite clear to me that a select group of individuals from the USA who flaunt these xenophobic racist remarks are responsible for affecting non-americans( and some more intelligent americans) with a disdainful view of your country.

We were talking about religion here. I'm not sure how racism entered the picture. And I also do not consider it xenophobic to be apprehensive or critical of those whose stated goal is fear, terror, and mayhem.

??? What relevance does this statement have. Ayatollah Khomeini issued this fatwa on Feb 14 1989.

Victor had argued that the suicide attacts by the Palestinians could not be connected to those of Al Qaeda, because the Palestinians followed a different sect of Islam. Khomeini provides an example of a case in which the _same_ sect demonstrated their disdain for human life.

sing your flawed logic you are suggesting that the entire Islam race are programmable automotons unable of independent thought.

I am accusing them of using their religion as a justification for murder.

bonkey

Originally posted by colinsky
I am accusing them of using their religion as a justification for murder.

Which is pretty much unarguably true.

Unfortunately, its a thorny issue. While we disagree, and indeed many of their fellow believers (from different sects, I'll grant you) also say it is wrong, these people firmly believe that they are doing nothing wrong as their religion permits their actions.

Its a tough problem. Despite espousing freedom of religion in the west, what we really mean is that you have freedom of religion within the bounds of the law - that religion does not give you the right to ignore right and wrong as dictated by law. However, it is also true that our western laws are predominantly evolved from Christian beliefs. We say all life is sacred, and enshrine this in law, but ultimately, this law has been derived from our own religious beliefs.

So - when we say that these people are wrong, we firmly believe it. However, from their perspective, they are not doing anything wrong, and Christian-evolved law has no right to cast judgement on them.

Personally, I still think we are right to pass judgement - they are wrong. Why? Simple - they maintain that their religion says that their actions are right....but similar actions by others are wrong, by their own faith and the faith of others. This duplicity is where the logic breaks down. If killing innocents in the name of some cause is perimssable, then it is permissable to all - which the Palestinian extremists do not accept.

Unfortunately, the western world has all too often looked at the conflict and condemned the actions of only one side and justified the actions of the others - we are equally guilty of the same double-standards.

Ultimately, both sides are wrong. Both sides cannot justify their actions. Condemning only one of them is impossible, unless you wish to use double-standards. If you do that, however, then you pretty much have no solid basis to be casting judgement at all.

jc

SABLE

Originally posted by bonkey


Despite espousing freedom of religion in the west, what we really mean is that you have freedom of religion within the bounds of the law - that religion does not give you the right to ignore right and wrong as dictated by law. However, it is also true that our western laws are predominantly evolved from Christian beliefs. We say all life is sacred, and enshrine this in law, but ultimately, this law has been derived from our own religious beliefs.

Oh yeah, I forgot. People had no moral codes of practice before Christianity (or any religion). Have you heard of the Greeks. Funnily enough they had codes of law independent of religion.

Get down from your ivory towers and stop clouding the issue with your "simple" xenophobic (because thats what it is) view of "eastern" religion and its followers.

Loomer

The above post is mine. I was in a cafe with Sable logged on so don't attribute the remarks to him.

bonkey

Originally posted by Loomer
Oh yeah, I forgot. People had no moral codes of practice before Christianity (or any religion). Have you heard of the Greeks. Funnily enough they had codes of law independent of religion.

I suggest you refamiliarise yourself with ancient greek religions.

Get down from your ivory towers and stop clouding the issue with your "simple" xenophobic (because thats what it is) view of "eastern" religion and its followers.

Can you explain how it is xenophobic? In exactly what way am I demonstrating an irrational fear of foreigners? I also have never claimed that our western cultures or religions are in any way superior - simply that we are judging them based on our baseline, which I recognise as being different, as opposed to better.

Which makes me think that I'm not really in an ivory tower either.

Maybe if you could use fewer catch-phrases and actually try explaining your point I might have a clue what you are on about.

jc

dathi1

why is there a big debate about religion on this Palestinian Demo thread?

Loomer

I like catch phrases! Maybe Yasser Arafat should take a line from Bart Simpson - "I didn't do it"

Loomer

Originally posted by bonkey


I suggest you refamiliarise yourself with ancient greek religions.

Not wanting to stray to far from the topic, but I am quite sure the musings of Aristotle, Socrates et al drew nothing from Zeus and his assorted Titans