Garda

Lenny

Now I don't know if this is the correct place to post this or not, but move if it you feel its not Castor.

But you see, the area I live in, isn't the quietest place now.
But you see, what I want to know is, if a Guard pulls up to me, and calls me over, obivously I am going to walk over, i have nothing to hide, but if he wants to search me, and go through everything I have in my pocket, I was wondering if he has a right to do this to me on the sopt, even though I am 17, and I am just walking down the street, the reason I ask this is because I have been searched many of times by garda and DS, maybe I do look like the type of dodgy person, but I have never bought a drug in my life.
What I basicly want to know is, can I stop him from searching me because I a youth and under 18? I once said to a Guard that he had no right to search me (I assumed this myself) and I soon found myself being pulled by the ear into the back of a riot van and brought up to the station for praticualy no reason what so ever.

Victor

You should normally follow the directions of a Garda (CRIMINAL JUSTICE (PUBLIC ORDER) ACT, 1994 and elsewhere), e.g. "lads, its 4 in the morning, go home". That said, I suspect they need reasonable cause to search your person ("Guard I saw him shoplifting" or observed suspicious / violent / criminal behavior). I imagine you must also answer reasonable questions.

If you are underage, they can still probably search you, however if they arrest you, I _understand_ they _must_ inform your parents. You cannot 'be held for questioning', you either are under arrest or not, there is no in between.

You must gave you (real) name and address when asked. There is no general obligation to carry identification. Once you turn 18, make sure you are on the Register of Electors (this enables them to better confirm name / address if you have no ID).

They cannot generally search your house (if you don't want them to) without a warrant (Constitution).

If you feel a Garda is acting inappropriately, remember the number on his shoulder epaulets and /or ask him for his ID.

dahamsta

You cannot 'be held for questioning', you either are under arrest or not, there is no in between.

With the possible exception of Section 30 of the Offenses Against the State Act...

adam

Victor

Originally posted by dahamsta
With the possible exception of Section 30 of the Offenses Against the State Act...

OFFENCES AGAINST THE STATE ACT, 1939
Arrest and detention of suspected persons.
30.—(1) A member of the Gárda Síochána (if he is not in uniform on production of 'his identification card if demanded) may without warrant stop, search, interrogate, and arrest any person, ... whom he suspects of having committed or being about to commit or being or having been concerned in the commission of an offence under any section or sub-section of this Act ...

...

(3) Whenever a person is arrested under this section, he may be removed to and detained in custody in a Gárda Síochána station, a prison, or some other convenient place for a period of twenty-four hours from the time of his arrest and may, if an officer of the Gárda Síochána not below the rank of Chief Superintendent so directs, be so detained for a further period of twenty-four hours.

0\/\/n4r3d

But note sections 10 and 11 of the OFFENCES AGAINST THE STATE (AMENDMENT) ACT, 1998.

Lenny

OK, I know the difference between telling a lie and not.
Last night, I was walking down to my friends house at 8:30pm, reasonable time for a 17 year old to be out, I was confronted by a two Guards that blew up to us in a car and riot van, My friend was searched, and he was OK, he told me friend to go home. He then went to search me, I let him go through my jacket pocket, and then he started asking me such questions such as "Why is your heart racing? what are you hiding" I reponded, "I just don't like some stranger going through my pockets, they're my privicy" He then proceed to turn me around, and turn me around, and start pulling my t-shirt out, and gave me a really good search, compaired to the quick one he did on my friend, he then asked me where I was going to go, and I said "To me friends house" he responded, "no you're not" and literly threw me into the riot van, and then doing wreaklesly driving around, they also threw other people from my area into the back, we were all taken to the station. I was search again throughly, but not s strip search now, but they did not notify my parents that they had taken me up.
And what even makes me wonder more, they wouldn't even give me a lift home, are they entilted to give me a lift back to were I was picked up?

Lenny

Where did you get that info from Victor, wouldn't mind on reading up a few acts
So I can be checky next time and know some of the acts

Victor

Originally posted by OJ
Where did you get that info from Victor, wouldn't mind on reading up a few acts So I can be checky next time and know some of the acts

The Irish Statute Book http://193.120.124.98/front.html , its not fully up to date. Look at the useful links post on the politics boards for recent acts and bills.

Lenny

Thanks v much for clearing the matter up for me.

Now I have to let the smelly pigs search me :mad:

Victor

Originally posted by OJ
And what even makes me wonder more, they wouldn't even give me a lift home, are they entilted to give me a lift back to were I was picked up?

Right, I assume you told your parents. If you feel like taking it further, I suggest you talk to a solicitor or alternatively if you want to avoid upping the stakes (and risk being searched on sight next time) get your parents to talk to a local councillor / parish priest / peace commissioner and ask them to talk to the guards to see what it was all about.

He then proceed to turn me around, and turn me around

This is to disorientate you and is a basic form of 'torture'. Most likely not appropriate behaviour,

and start pulling my t-shirt out

Making sure you aren't hiding anything inside your shirt / waist band. Most Gardaí do not physically touch someone when searching them. Battery?

he then asked me where I was going to go, and I said "To me friends house"

Most likely legal.

I said "To me friends house" he responded, "no you're not" and literly threw me into the riot van

If you are not over-stating this, it could again be battery.

and then doing wreaklesly driving around

This might be hard to say from the back of a van and Gardaí are usually given advanced driving courses. However, even the emergency services must follow the Rules of the Road and the Road Traffic Acts. Again this is to disorientate you.

we were all taken to the station.I was search again throughly, but not s strip search now, but they did not notify my parents that they had taken me up.

Did the ever "arrest" you (informally or formally)? I would be concerned with the Gardaí taking a minor away without either arresting you and / or advising the parents.

And what even makes me wonder more, they wouldn't even give me a lift home, are they entilted to give me a lift back to were I was picked up?

The Garda philosophy is generally to take you home if they genuinely believe you to be innocent and they feel like it, but they let you walk home otherwise.

PS. I assume you are a fine upstanding model of citizenry for the purposes of this post.

yellum

If you are a minor a female Garda has to search you I believe and a parent or guardian needs to be present.

I think being under 16 classes you as a minor though. I am too lazy to follow Victors link and look it up.

Ask them to provide you with ID if they're in uniform or not and then say you wish to ring their station to confirm their identity. Ask for the money for the call. :P

Take a note of each time an incident like this happens and if you want go down to the station and make a claim of harassment and have a photocopied sheet with all the times this happened written down.

If you want to **** em over good make a claim of sexual assault. State that he took far too long to pat you down and concentrated a lot of his search around your groin. Provide a witness too.

Go to the station and make this statement to the desk sergeant. Only to do this if you really felt uncomfortable about his hands roaming over you though, cos you don't want to falsely accuse someone and have them suspended from duty.

Victor

If you want to **** em over good make a claim of sexual assault. State that he took far too long to pat you down and concentrated a lot of his search around your groin. Provide a witness too.

Hmmm, had 4 pound coins in my back pocket going through airport security metal detector in Germany. While it wasn't sexual assault, I'm not exactly happy with any guy (_especially_ one I don't know ) putting (even the back of) his hand there. Thoroughly professional (we are '_Control_' not 'customer service' comes to mind), but nevertheless makes you feel _really_ uncomfortable.

Drunk pirate

I get pulled over by the gards all the time-hey I even got arested but when the pull over to "cheak" on us I feel steriotyped as some junky I never took drugs smoked-heck even drank!I just think they should lay off.

davros

This came up on Pat Kenny today. They were wondering if you could be searched to see if you were carrying a mobile phone while driving a car.

Apparently you could not. You *can* be searched though if you are suspected of carrying an offensive weapon (which mobile phones are not, it seems).

No mention of drugs.

That's all according to a radio show so treat accordingly.

zenith

I can't believe there is anybody on these boards who gets as much crap as OJ seems to get from the filth.

Damn, if I was you, fella, I'd have my solicitor all over them. I'd get them busted to minding sheep in fskign Donegal. This is just Not On (tm).

I know it's not much help, but they don't have the right to treat you as a criminal because you dress a particular way. Being boshie may make your life difficult in the short term, and that's why I'm not advising you to do it. If I had a suggestion, I'd say change what it is about you that makes you a target, and write about what these gob****es are up to, detailing every time these fskers take a liberty. They're servants of the peace, remember.

[this is inspired by my libertarian attitude, but - uneasy truce, I know - there's a basic civil rights issue here also. I'm unlikely to be pulled over for looking like a suspect, which proves how much bollix the whole system is.]

If you want a proposer for an NUJ card, I'll be one. I'd positively enjoy it. It has to be recognised by the pigs, you know, on orders from the brass.

yellum

I'll be talking to a friend of mine tomorrow who should be able to give me the lowdown on what they can and can't do and how to make them respect you and think twice.

Hes given very good advice before and helped friends of mine.

zenith

I'd really be interested in your friend's advice, and be interested in busting a coupla cops who might think that they are the law.

again, that's the libertarian in me.

Stephen

What's an NUJ card?

zenith

National Union of Journalists. A UK union, with an Ireland branch, that bleats a lot about freedom and liberty, but instead concerns itself with a radiator allowance for "pissed old hacks, baffled by new technology".

Worth it for the card, which occasionally works on gullable doormen.

SheroN

I don't know what yer all on about, i've never had any problems with the law, if you talk nicely to them and don't adopt a cheeky scumbag attitude you'll be allrite.

Canaboid

OJ if you don't mind, what area do you live in ?
Also, I doubt the Gardai can prevent you from going to your friends house for no reason whatsoever.
If this happens habitually I would ask your parents to make a formal complaint to the station Sargeant and if this has no effect take things further.

dahamsta

I don't know what yer all on about, i've never had any problems with the law, if you talk nicely to them and don't adopt a cheeky scumbag attitude you'll be allrite.

This is true, unless the Garda is a cheeky scumbag. Every group of people in society has a scumbag element -- in the Garda they're in the minority, but they're out there. I think the recent press the Garda has been getting should demonstrate that.

I have nothing against the Garda, I have the greatest respect for most of them. Just like most people, I've had run-ins with them at some stages in my life, and for the most part, they've been right and I've been wrong. On occasion though, I've run into an asshole Garda with a power complex. This is dangerous, and should be dealt with.

I don't know OJ, he could be a total scumbag for all I know (no offense OJ, just stating the facts), but if he feels he's being harassed, he should do something about it. Abuse of power is something that should not be tolerated, particularly abuse by a group as socially important as the Garda.

adam

yellum

Scumbag or no, unless he was commiting a crime or public order offence at the time he has the same rightsas every other citizen. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

dahamsta

Scumbag or no, unless he was commiting a crime or public order offence at the time he has the same rightsas every other citizen. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

The same might be said for a Garda being falsely accused of sexual assault Yellum, n'est ce pas?

adam

yellum

Yes you are right Adam, ahem, still I'm sure the wrongly accused Garda will find it a life building lesson and for once will see it from the viewpoint of the accused.

I don't actually have much respect for the Gardai as you may have guessed and the whole structure and attitude of the force needs to be independently looked into.

Look at whats after coming out in Donegal, and that is just the tip of a very large iceberg. I guarantee theres going to be a lot more come out. I am friends with some Gardai and respect them as individuals mostly but the forces attitude is very poor.

They have one law for us the general public and another for themselves and their relations and friends.

seamus

From other law-abiding citizens I've talked to, this is a common occurence in Tallaght, particularly Kingswood. I've talked to other people surrounded by a riot van full of Guards, gotten a few smacks from the women Guards (on the legs, with batons), and then the Guards have just left, after pushing them around a bit and 'interrogating' them about miscellaneous things.

Usually happens to 14-18 year olds out walking or loitering. Problem with the searching thing is the recent Drugs acts. If you refuse, that can give them 'reasonable' cause to suspect you of drugs offences (what are you trying to hide?), and just cause more hassle for you. Let them search you, but be a cheeky b@stard. Always made me feel a little better once they fecked off. :D

Victor

I understand from ther Gerry Ryan show this morning that the only things you can normally be searched for are offensive weapons and drugs (specific circumstances aside, e.g. reasonable suspicion or public events or airports).

Victor

also see this:

http://www.environ.ie/pressindex.html

it is not open to a Garda to search a driver for the possession of a mobile phone. This power only extends to where a Garda has evidence to suspect that a person is in possession of proscribed drugs or an offensive weapon.

Lenny

In repsonce to your question Canaboid, I am from Tallaght, Kingswod, and as seamus says, it is very very comman for us to get search and stoped and even brough home for nothing on most case's, and I'm sick to ****ing death of it. The bloody guards even have the check to knock on our doors and take our cans when we are in our friends house, they totally abuse their power, we know that they can't come in and take our cans, but they say that they can sit outside the house all night and arrest us one by one when leaving for being underage drinking.
About me getting searched the other night, there was a female too, but she was just standing at the car, and as about you going mad about some lad putting his hand down your back pocket, the male garda put his hand down my back packet twice he would not let me pull out the back pocket in my tracksuit bottoms, or the front even, he just shouted at me "I said hands out of the pockets" My friends parents have contacted the local guard many of times about the garda's attidude and giving us grief, and pestering us for nothing.but nothing has been resolved! and another stupid thing I didn't think about was about getting the guards # on his shoulder and my parents do know about me being up in the station Victor, I told them what happened and they went spare about them not being notifed at all
How you know about Kingswood is a bad area for the guards anyway Seamus?
I'd also like to know if there is also any gardai on this board too, I want to know what you have to say about your pigish behaivour

azezil

I've seen first hand how a rep, which may be totally unfounded can result in police harrassment.

It happened to my brother, he started hanging round with people who were associated with some other people... anyway one of the neighbours get's robbed n because they seen him with these ppl they inform the guards.

At one point there if anything happened within a 5 mile radius they'd come knocking!

Eventually my mother got really pissed off and went down to the station, gave em an earfull n they haven't been back since.

I've talked to detectives they're usually grand to me anyway i never had a problem with them but if anyone points the finger at you thats it they'll be round again and again.

Milkman

was just talking about this subject the other day with a friend - What exactly are they allowed to do and how must they go about it.
There is a very strict procedure they must adopt - which they never do.
They have to announce themselves, and the EXACT reason they are requesting a search ..ie under what law and what reason.
You can refuse and ask to be arrested and brought to the station where you will glady comply with their request with a solicitor present.-then watch a change in thier demeaner.

All this really does is delay the search, but it means a hell of a lot of paper work and hastle for them!!!

But only do it when u know you're in the clear!!!

Milkman

forgot..
you get apology and
it also means there is a record of your search which you can then use if they are hastling you on an unfair basis!!

Drunk pirate

This thread fasinates me....who ever instantly put the gards in control anyway?!

azezil

Well we did!?

we vote for a government, they make laws, the guards enforce those laws.

Drunk pirate

Oh.....i see

seamus

Originally posted by OJ
The bloody guards even have the check to knock on our doors and take our cans when we are in our friends house, they totally abuse their power, we know that they can't come in and take our cans, but they say that they can sit outside the house all night and arrest us one by one when leaving for being underage drinking.

No, they can't come in without a warrant. If they knock on the door, you can open it, but any attempt by them to gain entry without a warrant is unlawful entry. (I thought you were over 18 ). They can sit outside and wait for you to come out drunk, but they can't arrest you for underage drinking. All they can do is throw you in the car and bring you home. (Although if you can't give them your address, ie you're too drunk, they can take you and put you in the cells for the night, to sober up). If they are sitting waiting outside, go out and have a little chat and take down some ID nos - this is a ridiculous waste of resources, as well as harrassment, easily cause for a reprimand. If it was happening every weekend to myself, I would go to one of the papers with it. Gardai tend to look after their own, but once the papers get on it, they punish people to save face. And things like this go on all the time.

How you know about Kingswood is a bad area for the guards anyway Seamus?

People I've known in school, and friends of friends that I've talked to lived there.

Ronan|Raven

IMHO most of the Garda I have had the misfortune to meet are a bunch of stuck up little W.ankers fresh out of Training School:mad: They seem to think they can do what they ****ing like to ya.Ive lost the little love ive had of them anyway in the last 12 months anyway due to some unfortunate personal hassle with them.


I know they have a hard job to do etc etc. But some of the new boys seem to think being basterds to ya is the way to win respect.

Lenny

What schooll did yea go to seamus?
and what people yea know?
just wondering, pm me if you want..

Drunk pirate

I watched sallyJr (Spare the bombardment of slagins' please) the other day and they were talkin' about police officers who sexual abused women without any reason to! Like for example-

Two "Love buuuuuuuurrddss" were in a car park yanky pankieing around when a "police officer" Pulled over and shines a bright torch at the two of them he tells the girl to come to his car and tells her "I have to do a strip search"-FOR NO REASON!She had to shake her bra off for no reason and pull her pants down for a "drug check".

Later on police found the man who did this and he did not report on the car phone that he was gonna check up on the two people (and you are suppose to) and all he got was a months suspestion! JESUS! Frickin' rapists DISGUST ME!!!!

lara

Not had any first hand experience with this, but from friends who have been harrassed (also tallaght & Kingswood) the best two phrases you can use are "Yes, Guard" and "No, Guard". May make you sick, but at least they can accuse you of not co-operating.

amen

No, they can't come in without a warrant. If they knock on the door, you can open it, but any attempt by them to gain entry without a warrant is unlawful entry

If they believe that a serious crime is about to occur or someone is in danger they enter your house without a warrant.

If they are in pursuit of someone the can enter your house without a warrant.

Customs & Excise are worse. They can enter your home at anytime without a warrant if the believe goods are present which are illegal or on which VAT has not been paid.

flyz

not forgetting the crucial attitude test that you have to pass before anything else

Victor

Originally posted by amen
If they believe that a serious crime is about to occur or someone is in danger they enter your house without a warrant. If they are in pursuit of someone the can enter your house without a warrant.

This area is fraught with difficulty. They cannot for example follow an errant motorist into their home (they can follow onto the grounds of the property). While of course they will do their damnedest to follow an armed robber or prevent a crime, I don't know where the line is drawn.

Kappar

I can't believe there is anybody on these boards who gets as much crap as OJ seems to get from the filth.

See my thread at

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46411

NeRb666

As far as I can rememer, it isn't illegal for under 18's to drink in a (private) house, as long as they have permission and the alcohol was purchased by an adult. If they do insist on sitting outside your house waiting, OJ, just leave them there. I would suggest making some prank calls on an unregistered pre-pay phone to a nearby location (just to see if they move), but that would be illegal

TacT

well from what I've read and from the little experience I have of once being a 15yr old delinquent :rolleyes: what used to be the case was........

If they stop you they may not search you but they can ask you to empty your pockets.
If you refuse then they may take you to the station (under arrest/suspected of commiting a crime) where they will be allowed to search you once they have rung your parents or a solicitor is present.
Once you are over the age of 17 they must ask you if you want your parents/wife/brother or other family member contacted. (helps to avoid trouble with the parents IF of course you in trouble)

They can only search you if a crime has taken place or is suspected to take place. In my case some guy just had his wallet stolen and was in the back of the squad car pointing at myself and a mate who had apparently just stolen this mans wallet and beaten him, which was not the case. Unfortunately the plonker that was with me at the time and unknown to me had an lsd tab in his ciggarette box so he was arrested under section blah blah while I stood there in astonishment and then the cop turns to me and says "ahh sure you can come along with your friend to" So I got dragged off to the station with this gimp and got ridiculously questioned about things I had no idea of, like wtf this guy had purchased his drugs.

Funny thing was this man who had his wallet stolen just dissapeared after we arrived at the station and I found it funny when thinking about it that he might have his wallet in his ciggy box :rolleyes: so I'm not sure what the jazz was but it really sucked!

NeRb666

Bollocks, they search you whenever they feel like it.