TV License(RTE and SKY Deal)

irishgeo

The renewal came today in the post. i was wondering with RTE coming to SKY in April. I will be taking down the indoor aerial and just using the SKY dish on the wall.

So do i still need a TV License? My thinking is SKY takes money off me already for the service so why pay twice.Why should i pay the License fee when i dont actually watch the service it covers. The analogue service from montrose. Am I correct in this assumption.

Or is the license to cover the TV itself or the actually picture that comes though it from the local mast.

I know this sounds very confusing but if you can clear it up for me i would be very grateful.

Thanks.

Charles Slane

The licence is for any reception equipment, so even if you never watched RTE, or even lived in a place where reception of RTE's service was impossible, you'd still have to pay the licence just for having the equipment (ie a TV).

I know it sounds ludicrous, but that's the way it works.

Mossy Monk

it is an unfair tax. even a PC with a tuner requires the blasted thing. but think of the bright side, it helps to overpay those idiots the clowns at Montrose consider to be good

irishgeo

thanks for the quick response. i am glad i am not the only person thats stays up to all hours on the net. phew!!!! :cool:

thnaks lads. i am think boards .ie is the best put its so hard to be active in every group.

apiou

Kevin,

All European countries have the same problem. I have cable in France, and pay for it, so why should I pay a licence fee.

I have a strong feeling that at some time in the the future the national broadcasters will have to fend for themselves.

On your other idea of taking away your ariel, a bit of advice, keep it in the basement or where ever. Then on the days (which sometimes can be a few) when the satellite is having problems, you can go back to your old terrestrial.

icdg

On a purely legal basis, the Licence Fee is a tax on owning a television or other wireless telegraphy* equipment for the purposes of recieving sound and vision. The fact that the money from it goes to fund RTE is irrelevant, on this basis.

*Yes, that's what the law calls it!

The alternative to the licence fee would be to fund RTE out of direct taxation, as the Australian and Canadian Broadcasting Corporations are. The problem with this is, as the ABC has discovered, if a government wants political coverage to go one way - or at least, wants to handicap the ABC in covering news properly - it can cut funding or threathen to cut funding at a whim. At least the licence fee is never reduced. Direct funding has reduced the ABC (well, ABC Television at least) to a mainly childrens, educational, and news broadcaster, which I dare say many people in the commercial sector would like RTE and the BBC to become.

Or it could be fully advertising funded. In that case, you would have to see (a) a massive cutback in RTE's home produced programming, down to the bare minimum of news and current affairs. (b) a massive increase in advertising airtime, up to and probably above that on Sky One. Or (c) both.

JTMan

1.They should sell Network 2. It has nothing to do with public service broadcasting.

2.Tg4 and the national orcestra should be taken away from RTE.

3. RTE1 should only show public service television. There is no need to fund non stop soaps from 10am to 6pm every boloody day.

doing all this would greatly reduce the licence fee.

dmeehan

rte should seperate their commercial tv from the public service broadcasting

i mean how many of us watch the likes of Nationwide?
now with digital tv they have the chance to do this
put news/public service stuff/oireachtas coverage on a seperate channel from the entertainment/sports stuff

that way they can maximise advertising revenue for large audience draws like live sport coverage or new episodes of friends or e.r.

(excuse the spelling, its still monday!)

Richard

Originally posted by apiou
Kevin,

All European countries have the same problem. I have cable in France, and pay for it, so why should I pay a licence fee?

I presume that the analogue terrestrial channels don't get anything from the cable system for carrying them. So you have to pay for them seperately. If there was no licence fee in France, there'd be a lot more "Publicité" (advertisements) - you notice how few there are - and, I imagine, programme quality would suffer.

In the UK, the BBC have to pay Sky for carriage of their channels, and they get no money from advertisements on their channels so you should have to pay. In fact, they get more value for money as there are more channels and services covered by the fee. I am not sure whether this is the case in France.

In ROI, RTE does not get money for carriage on the multichannel providers, so having multichannel TV is no reason not to pay for it. If it didn't carry RTE then you'd have more of case.

I do think licence fees are a good idea, though they are harder to justify in countries where the state TV stations also carry advertisements.

billy the squid

was just wondering this

what if they encrypted RTE and anyone who wanted it could subscribe to it. then scrap the licence fee

Mossy Monk

what about receiving RTÉ terrestrially. how would they encrypt that. only DTT could make this possible but then analogue reception wont be stopped for a long time yet

Kotek Besar

Charles Slane wrote:

The licence is for any reception equipment, so even if you never watched RTE, or even lived in a place where reception of RTE's service was impossible, you'd still have to pay the licence just for having the equipment (ie a TV).

I know it sounds ludicrous, but that's the way it works.

Five year old thread I know..

Has anybody ever challenged this? What if you have a TV and FTA satellite equipment, but no TV aerial. There is no way of being able to receive RTE channels with the said setup, but legally you'd still have to purchase a TV license. So it's a license to own a television set. What's next, a license to own a microwave? :rolleyes:

Mossy Monk

You are still capable of receiving television signals. So yes that setup still requires it. Don't see why a five year old thread was resurrected for this.

Kotek Besar

Mossy Monk wrote:

You are still capable of receiving television signals. So yes that setup still requires it. Don't see why a five year old thread was resurrected for this.

1. To voice opinion of this unfair law.
2. To ask if anybody has ever attempted to challenge this.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe in abiding by the law of the land you live in, but how is it possibly fair to charge people €158 for a product they neither want nor have the ability to use?

weehamster

This argument really only applies to genuine people, living in the Republic of Ireland, who can't receive free RTE1, 2, TV3 & TG4 at all, and pays their license fee. I'll guess that is a very low number indeed.

I've seen in RTE terrestrial only Sky cards, so it is possible to offer these very few households RTE1, 2, TV3 & TG4 for free by satellite by supplying them this unique card (that is of course they can pick up the satellite in the first place).

If I was one of them, I would take it to the DCMNR and because there would be so few, (and therefore at very little cost to the department) I'll guess they might supply a card. :rolleyes:

Mossy Monk

benifa wrote:

1. To voice opinion of this unfair law.
2. To ask if anybody has ever attempted to challenge this.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe in abiding by the law of the land you live in, but how is it possibly fair to charge people €158 for a product they neither want nor have the ability to use?

The television licence is a tax on receiving a television signal, not watching RTÉ.

Kotek Besar

Mossy Monk wrote:

The television licence is a tax on receiving a television signal, not watching RTÉ.

Right you are Mossy, though the fact remains that the proceeds of the television license goes to RTE. The Irish government and their departments may call it a tax on owning a television (which is absurd in itself, in my opinion), but the majority of the revenue generated by this "tax" is used to fund RTE. This is what I feel is unfair, for people who do not use RTE (through choice or otherwise).

DMC

benifa wrote:

Right you are Mossy, though the fact remains that the proceeds of the television license goes to RTE. The Irish government and their departments may call it a tax on owning a television (which is absurd in itself, in my opinion), but the majority of the revenue generated by this "tax" is used to fund RTE. This is what I feel is unfair, for people who do not use RTE (through choice or otherwise).

No longer a fact.

RTÉ don't get 100% of the licence fee anymore, Independent broadcasters can approach the BCI to make programmes out of the licence fee, under the "Sound and Vision" scheme.

Can I ask what TV and radio you do consume?

Kotek Besar

DMC wrote:

..RTÉ don't get 100% of the licence fee anymore..

True, and according to Wikipedia (not always 100% accurate, granted) "The licence fee does not entirely go to RTÉ. After collection costs, 5% is used for the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland's "Sound and Vision Scheme", which provides a fund for programme production and restoration of archive material which is open to applications from any quarters." What's interesting to note also is that only 50% of RTE's funding comes from TV licenses. The other half comes from advertising.

DMC wrote:

Can I ask what TV and radio you do consume?

I have a British Sky subscription registered to my address in the UK.

Ulsterman 1690

I've seen in RTE terrestrial only Sky cards, so it is possible to offer these very few households RTE1, 2, TV3 & TG4 for free by satellite by supplying them this unique card (that is of course they can pick up the satellite in the first place).

How and where would one obtain such a thing ?

DMC

benifa wrote:

What's interesting to note also is that only 50% of RTE's funding comes from TV licenses. The other half comes from advertising.

Which is why the TV Licence here is less than the UK's, which is almost €200 at today's rates.

benifa wrote:

I have a British Sky subscription registered to my address in the UK.

So, looking at your location, you have brought over your sky box from England to Ireland. Which is fine, a lot of people do it and vice versa.

If I lived in the UK and had an Irish Sky box with RTÉ, I wouldn't be subjected to the Irish licence fee, but the UK's.

The licence is linked to the address where a TV is, and to not what TV is consumed by the end user.

Kotek Besar

I get what you're saying DMC, and I do understand fully the legality of it all. The point I'm trying to make is simple - it just isn't fair to be forced to contribute towards the running of a product or service that one has no interest in ever using. Forget for a moment the fact I have a UK Sky subscription. What about those people who have an FTA satellite system and no terrestrial aerial? Those who have no access to RTE service should not be forced to pay towards them.

DMC

benifa wrote:

The point I'm trying to make is simple - it just isn't fair to be forced to contribute towards the running of a product or service that one has no interest in ever using. What about those people who have an FTA satellite system and no terrestrial aerial? Those who have no access to RTE service should not be forced to pay towards them.

It depends if you buy into the spirit of Public Service Broadcasting.

If, like me, you believe in the need a strong public service broadcaster which provides a general service(s) which reflect the country you are in, and that such a service while not commercially viable, is funded through a model like the licence fee.

As a country with the dominance of the English language from two countries either side of a body of water, we need channels to differentiate what we are about. What Ireland is about. To reflect our society and culture.

It is, of course, worth arguing does RTÉ give us that? More so than TV3, thats for sure!

I do believe that paying the licence fee gives someone the right to complain if you don't like what's going on. Unlike election voting, which is not-compulsory, I believe if you don't vote you don't have the right to complain about the government

Over here, its a bit different, as we have an almost 50/50 spilt with adverts and licence fee. But that's more down to the economics from where RTÉ started from. IMHO, as 2FM is wholly funded by its own ads, if it is seen that that profit is fed to the choirs and orchestras, then I'm all for that.

Going back to your point on an FTA system and no TV aerial, that is their choice if they don't want to stick up an aerial, they don't want to watch RTÉ. I would like RTÉ to be FTA on satellite, but I clearly understand the dynamics that cause RTÉ to be encrypted on satellite.

Kotek Besar

DMC wrote:

It depends if you buy into the spirit of Public Service Broadcasting.

If, like me, you believe in the need a strong public service broadcaster which provides a general service(s) which reflect the country you are in, and that such a service while not commercially viable, is funded through a model like the licence fee.

As a country with the dominance of the English language from two countries either side of a body of water, we need channels to differentiate what we are about. What Ireland is about. To reflect our society and culture..

You've really made me think here DMC, thank you. Perhaps I have been wrong in my thinking after all. I mean, if I'm legally resident in Ireland and work here, pay income tax here, then perhaps I should also not show reluctance in contributing towards the country's national broadcaster. I might even buy a TV aerial tomorrow!

DMC

LOL, you are indeed paying for it, so its worth sticking up an aerial for at least.
One of Irish TV's perks is that it does get to show the US dramas before any of Sky's entertainment channels or the UK terrestrials. Its another way of making sure there is an audience draw towards the home channels, as well as generating advertising revenue.

I might be painting a rosy picture here, but there is a helluva lot of thinks that piss me off about RTÉ, so, as a licence fee payer, I feel obliged to tell them when I point out something wrong. Its all about making sure that the hard earned cash I pay them is spent wisely. I wish more people did that than whinge on boards etc. They take more notice of written complaints to them rather places like these.

The satellite situation might change next year, the dynamics of which certainly will if Freesat is a success, but going on other countries where there is a dominant common language neighbour (eg Austria) it might stay encrypted. Sky might make it worth RTÉ's while to ensure that that stays that way.

watty

DMC wrote: »

If I lived in the UK and had an Irish Sky box with RTÉ, I wouldn't be subjected to the Irish licence fee, but the UK's.

The licence is linked to the address where a TV is, and to not what TV is consumed by the end user.

Well said. The TV licence is essentially a tax on TV viewing, no matter if via Analogue, Digital, Live IPTV, MMDS, Cable or Satellite.

The issue of if this is a good or bad concept is separate.

weehamster

http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html

An Post collects TV Licence fees on behalf of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources....

What is the licence fee used for?
Licence fee revenue is used to fund RTÉ's public service activities. The cost of providing these services is however substantially in excess of the amount of public funding received in the form of licence fee revenue and for this reason RTÉ also engages in a number of commercial activities. Currently, approximately 50% of RTÉ's revenue is derived from licence fees and approximately 50% from commercial income. Some of RTÉ's public service activities receive complete public funding, some receive limited public funding and some receive no public funding.

DMC

The statement is out of date by about 4 years. Since the licence fee went up to €150 (and its subsequent increases) it included the Sound and Vision fund for the BCI.

http://www.bci.ie/broadcast_funding_scheme/index.html

Sound and Vision is a grant scheme designed to support the production of new television and radio programmes in the areas of Irish culture, heritage and experience and adult literacy. The Scheme is the result of the Broadcasting (Funding) Act, 2003 and is funded by 5% of the television licence fee.

gar32

Madness I have a large LCD which I only have my PC connected too. I watch on line tv news or Internet TV program like Joost which is from USA & free. Yet because I have this LCD monitor / TV I have to pay the license. I some times look at rte news online maybe once a week but any one in the worls can watch that for free. Why do I have to pay? Is there someone who can take TV tuner out of my TV???

Mossy Monk

You have a tuner, you must pay. There is no way around it. I don't know who will be able to remove it for you.

gar32

Thanks looks like the Tax man has got me again, water bins, income tax, Vat, Car, airport and now TV which I don't use. This rat race is getting faster every day. Maybe I will get NTL now. (worst service ever if you try call for help) 5 sec if you call sales. hhhmmmm

watty

gar32 wrote: »

Madness I have a large LCD which I only have my PC connected too. I watch on line tv news or Internet TV program like Joost which is from USA & free. Yet because I have this LCD monitor / TV I have to pay the license. I some times look at rte news online maybe once a week but any one in the worls can watch that for free. Why do I have to pay? Is there someone who can take TV tuner out of my TV???

If you watch any live TV online, that is a live copy of Terrestrial /Satellite /Cable, that also needs a TV licence.

It's nothing to do with if it is RTE or not. Any LIVE pictures received by what ever technology that are also on Cable, Satellite or Terrestrial, even it not in Ireland.

Watching archives or recordings does not require a TV licence.

People in other countries may have their own TV licence to pay, irrespective of which broadcaster they watch.

gar32

The internet brodcast is not live but about 2 to 5 sec later. Not sure of the law's idea of live but then there used to be a tax on window size here in Ireland. Thats where the saying Day light robbery came from.

watty

Satellite TV can be more delayed than internet feed. Sum of MPEG encoding, satellite path(s) and MPEG decoding.

Almost all "live" Chat shows are on 15 second delay.

Solair

The TV licence fee actually goes to fund a wider variety of services than just RTE btw. TG4 is also funded as well as a small, but growing, slice of the funding is being put into local / community and national commercial radio to fund productions. There are also tenders going out to let TV3 etc do some public service content.

What I would like to see though is a move away from the insane enforcement methodology used at the moment.

The simplest solution would be for the Department of Comms to do a deal with Sky and UPC (NTL/Chorus) etc so that your monthly cable subscription included a TV license contribution. Over the year it's not that huge an amount on a monthly bill.

When DTT rolls out, just encrypt it and require a box or CAM (conditional access module) in your TV.

If you've a valid TV license you can see DTT, if not you don't.

I'm sure such a scheme would be FAR cheaper to run in the long term than sending around a bunch of inspectors to snoop on people and try to figure out if they have a TV or not. It's a joke of a system that should be consigned to the 1950s!

Kotek Besar

Solair wrote: »

The TV licence fee actually goes to fund a wider variety of services than just RTE btw. TG4 is also funded as well as a small, but growing, slice of the funding is being put into local / community and national commercial radio to fund productions. There are also tenders going out to let TV3 etc do some public service content.

What I would like to see though is a move away from the insane enforcement methodology used at the moment.

The simplest solution would be for the Department of Comms to do a deal with Sky and UPC (NTL/Chorus) etc so that your monthly cable subscription included a TV license contribution. Over the year it's not that huge an amount on a monthly bill.

When DTT rolls out, just encrypt it and require a box or CAM (conditional access module) in your TV.

If you've a valid TV license you can see DTT, if not you don't.

I'm sure such a scheme would be FAR cheaper to run in the long term than sending around a bunch of inspectors to snoop on people and try to figure out if they have a TV or not. It's a joke of a system that should be consigned to the 1950s!

I agree completely. I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's an absolute joke that this country forces people to buy a TV license when you don't use Irish TV. I would much rather see a system in place, such as the one described above. This would ensure that those who watch Irish TV pay for it, and those who choose not to, don't. What's fairer than that? As the present system goes - we're basically taxed on owning a TV, not using it. Even if the TV is broken, we still are forced to licence it! If your car's out of service and you take it off the road, you don't have to tax it. So why is a TV different? What makes a TV so special that it must be taxed? Other white goods aren't taxed.

MACHEAD

Strictly speaking TV's, audio equipment etc are 'Brown Goods'. White Goods usually refers to kitchen appliances. But back on topic again conditional access seems like a good enough idea, 'no pay equals no tv' but there will always be defaulters who will try to wriggle off the hook. If we were to depend on those who were willing to pay for and watch irish tv, I'm afraid there would'nt be much of a service. Untill we find a way of applying a universal EU wide system of restricting access to TV transmissions and therefor 'pay to view' on all platforms, the licence fee it is then. Alternatively we could just close down all 'national broadcast' services and allow the Murdoch's of this world a free for all and just get used 24 Hr reality shows, soft porn and ad breaks every 7 minuets.

Duiske

My brother is building a house just down the road from me, so is living in a mobile home beside my house until completion. All the utilities used in the mobile are taken directly from my house, water, power, sat cable and phone.
Basically, it is like an extension of the house. Is he obliged to have his own TV licence ?

watty

If he uses your kitchen, no. If he has his own cooking facilities yes. Based on how bedsits are treated. The fact he shares your utilities services is irrelevant. Apartments or caravan sites might, and they need separate per person licences.

watty

Solair wrote: »

The TV licence fee actually goes to fund a wider variety of services than just RTE btw. TG4 is also funded as well as a small, but growing, slice of the funding is being put into local / community and national commercial radio to fund productions. There are also tenders going out to let TV3 etc do some public service content.

What I would like to see though is a move away from the insane enforcement methodology used at the moment.

The simplest solution would be for the Department of Comms to do a deal with Sky and UPC (NTL/Chorus) etc so that your monthly cable subscription included a TV license contribution. Over the year it's not that huge an amount on a monthly bill.

When DTT rolls out, just encrypt it and require a box or CAM (conditional access module) in your TV.

If you've a valid TV license you can see DTT, if not you don't.

I'm sure such a scheme would be FAR cheaper to run in the long term than sending around a bunch of inspectors to snoop on people and try to figure out if they have a TV or not. It's a joke of a system that should be consigned to the 1950s!

I would burn TV sets in front of Dail of this evil idea was proposed. It's wedge to complete "Orwellian" control by Gov. of the media, and a further invasion of privacy.

You would make it that petrol pumps don't vend or your gates don't open unless your car is NCT, taxed & Insured?

Or that your electricity is automatically cut off the hour payment is overdue?

Or the Pub door won't open without your biometric ID card?

Or the if the Government suspects you of < insert current scare here> they can cut off which ever services they like without trial or recourse to appeal. (See man refused AS level studies in UK due to Control Order).

It's bad enough people conned into store cards.

(Dons tin foil hat and asbestos overcoat and runs off chased by black helicopters).

The BBC IMO have fallen far, but they are clear in wanting no link ever between conditional access and TV licence payment.

Lets have LESS central control over our lives and not more. Having road Tolls is bad. How the propose to collect them in the future is worse.

watty

gar32 wrote: »

Thanks looks like the Tax man has got me again, water bins, income tax, Vat, Car, airport and now TV which I don't use. This rat race is getting faster every day. Maybe I will get NTL now. (worst service ever if you try call for help) 5 sec if you call sales. hhhmmmm

You're prepared to pay a foreign company 3x the licence fee for a below average quality service?
You can get 4 channels at better quality via TV aerial
You can get about 45 decent TV and 20 decent Radio out of the 200+free TV and 70+ free radio on Satellite for a ONCE OFF install cost.

NTL (UPC actually), IPTV, Sky, Free Satellite or TV via aerial is the same licence fee. You can have as many tuners, receivers, TVs as you like too, for the one reasonable annual tax.
PayTV you pay extra for each separate Digital receiver on Sky or UPC. Any decent pay TV you pay far more for 80% junk you never watch than the licence fee.

Road tax, Phone, Internet all can cost more than Pay TV, never mind the TV licence Tax.

gar32

Yes I live in Dublin but because of the apartments I live in the signal is too weak. I have paid €45 for powered in door Ariel & even had an out door Ariel just outside my door. I bought a dish but could only get Spanish TV as the building block my view of where Sky & other sat are in the sky. I have no choice but to go with UPC (NTL) as no other TV cable operators are in this Building. believe me I have tried as I have had very bad experience with NTL in the past but other then paying for a TV License & not watching TV. I have no option. Thanks for the advice.

Yes UPC are over priced with crap service tell me something I don't know

scath

At the moment, the inspector can't gov into your home unless he catches you in the van by bouncig a signal. Under the 2008 legislation he will be obliged to let him in to check that you have a license.

To my mind and my dissertation both this year & last years suggest that as mobile TV will become standard and will probably have a reciever to automatically deduct the license from pre-paid top-up and post paid. That way you cover everyone. No need for a TV license inspector. License collection monopoly would end.

That seems the solution. TDs & senators during the Broadcasting (Amendment) Bill (now Act-april 2007) suggested during debate charging in on the esb bill. But then you have the argument that the guy who doesn't have a TV set is forced to pay. But everyone has a mobile so when they have mobile TV then it should automatically be deducted on a montly basis.

I think that's the way to go, fair on everyone.

watty

Widespread mobile TV is a while off in this country.

It was indeed the pocket transitor radio in sixties that killed the Wireless Licence.

Tilly818

GLAD TO SEE THE THREAD IS STILL GOING AFTER 10 YEARS LOL

I HAVE MAJOR PROBLEM
i've just been forwarded on a few letters from my last address and amongest them was a letter saying that the tv licence inspector was there and that he/she saw a tv (duno how there is no actual tv in there) and that they will be back and that i have to buy a licence before then. only thing is i dont live there anymore so do i still need to buy a tv licence even tho i dont live there i live with my parents again (damn recession) and they ave a tv licence. Another thing is that while i was at my last house i got sky but when i moved me and my landlord did a deal that he would pay for it (he puts the money in my account every month) so that there would be cable tv in the house when he wants to rent it but the sky is still in my name will that mean i will be held accountable to pay for the tv licence because as far as the records are concerned i still pay for a tv ariel


love some help on this coz i ave no job and only 100€ a week coming in so the last thing i need is to pay 160€ for a tv licence that i wont be using or even worse go to court and have to pay 1000€ fine thans

Kotek Besar

While I find your text colour very pretty, this thread is only "still going", as you state, because you dragged it up.

bk

MOD:

Tilly818 don't drag up an old thread like this, please start a new thread.

Also please use normal font and color.