Do you think that a new government is a good idea?

SHAMAN · 15-02-2002 5:04pm #1

Well?

Saruman · 15-02-2002 5:15pm

Im bored with this poll already!
The current Government is ok but i dread to think what any of the other spanners would get up to!

SHAMAN · 15-02-2002 5:17pm

Really how so?
I think the current Government is one of the biggest ****-ups in Irish history,but then again I feel that way about all politicians.

SHAMAN · 15-02-2002 5:31pm

Who the heck loves Bertie?!?!?

franco · 15-02-2002 7:12pm

I do, Bertie has been the best taoiseach in living memory. Crime, unemployment and taxes have been cut and peace has been brought to the north, what else do you want.

DadaKopf · 15-02-2002 11:30pm

Since every democracy's required to change their government generally every four years, isn't this a really stupid question?

scipio_major · 16-02-2002 1:36am

It's been said before and it'll be said again:

"Democracy it just doesn't work, when will you people learn?"

I propose that all power is handed over to me, I'll get this country running again. Sure I'll have to put half the population up against a wall and shot them. But hey, life will be pretty peachy for the survivors.

Fade to Credits
Scipio_major

EL_Diablo · 16-02-2002 1:48am

Originally posted by franco
I do, Bertie has been the best taoiseach in living memory. Crime, unemployment and taxes have been cut and peace has been brought to the north, what else do you want.

Peace has been brought to the North?? What Ireland are you living in? Every week almost you hear of some paramilitary attack.
Out with the crooked in with the new I say

Sand · 16-02-2002 2:07pm

Its miles and miles better than the 70s and 80s. Just because it isnt perfect doesnt mean it isnt good.

Victor · 16-02-2002 9:58pm

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Since every democracy's required to change their government generally every four years, isn't this a really stupid question?

We only have to change government every 7 years (we choose to do so every 5 years)

http://www.gov.ie/taoiseach/publication/constitution/english/contents.htm

Digi_Tilmitt · 17-02-2002 12:16am

Originally posted by SHAMAN
Really how so?
I think the current Government is one of the biggest ****-ups in Irish history,but then again I feel that way about all politicians.

I don't like big bad bertie but all we have besides him is baldy boy noonan. Time for a small revolution.

ReefBreak · 18-02-2002 9:58am

PD/FF is the only way to go at the moment. FG might work, but I imagine would really be pretty inept, and anything involving Labour/SF/Greens/Socialist/WP/Others would be a disaster for this country's economy.

Aspro · 19-02-2002 11:41am

Originally posted by ReefBreak
PD/FF is the only way to go at the moment. FG might work, but I imagine would really be pretty inept, and anything involving Labour/SF/Greens/Socialist/WP/Others would be a disaster for this country's economy.

Are you making the assertion that the FF/PD government created the Celtic Tiger?

Ten years of boom under both this coalition and rainbow and I don't see fantastic health, transport, education and other services despite the billions of £££s that were created. I now see massive job losses and Haugheyesque belt-tightening rhetoric.

So where did the money go.........???

ReefBreak · 19-02-2002 11:58am

No, I'm making the assertion that it was right-wing policies (low tax, promotion of investmest and enterprise) that created the boom in this country. Left-wing policies espoused by Labour, etc (high tax, high spend) would kill the sound economic fundamentals that this country currently enjoys.

Victor · 19-02-2002 12:03pm

Originally posted by ReefBreak
No, I'm making the assertion that it was right-wing policies (low tax, promotion of investmest and enterprise) that created the boom in this country. Left-wing policies espoused by Labour, etc (high tax, high spend) would kill the sound economic fundamentals that this country currently enjoys.

Well, at least the "Left-wing policies espoused by ...." don't kill as many people. In particular, I refer to the money Haughey sought for himself (£500,000 IIRC) while at the same time denying a trust fund (for the same amount) for haemophiliacs infected with HIV by an inept and under-funded blood board.

ReefBreak · 19-02-2002 12:07pm

Oops, you're mistaking the words "right-wing policies" for "corruption". And I despise corruption as much as you do. In fact, there's no reason to believe that left-wing parties wouldn't have done the same - in fact, they've been sometimes been as bad - if not worse - in leftist dominated countries (China, the old Russia, etc.)

Victor · 19-02-2002 12:13pm

No, I'm calling a spade a spade.

smiles · 19-02-2002 11:00pm

Originally posted by Aspro

Are you making the assertion that the FF/PD government created the Celtic Tiger?

Ten years of boom under both this coalition and rainbow and I don't see fantastic health, transport, education and other services despite the billions of £££s that were created. I now see massive job losses and Haugheyesque belt-tightening rhetoric.

So where did the money go.........???

Ok, same argument as the other thread, no single goverent "created" the celtic tiger, it has been the product of a good economic climate and good planning from various governments, which included cutbacks in the economy when needed.

These cutbacks did lead to a deprivation of services, but in my opinion that was a necessary evil. There is millions being invested in new infrastructure (/me looks out the window at the new bypass being built new door), and our education system is virtually unrivaled. The health system is lacking, but there is money being invested, but it takes more than money, there needs to be nurses and doctors to staff these hospital (which is the biggest problem at the moment).

We're going into recession (a normal end of boom cycle experience) of course we need to tighten our belts somewhat, if we continued to spend the way we are then the money would just flow out of the economy as we are becoming less and less competitive with the gradual strengthening of the Euro. If they were telling us to spend spend spend then we would experience the exat same problems we did when we first took up the Keynesian idea of "pump-priming" (or spending our way out of a recession), the Irish economy would suffer to a more competitive one.

<< Fio >>

smiles · 19-02-2002 11:15pm

Originally posted by Victor
No, I'm calling a spade a spade.

so charlie haughey taking money for himself = murder of haemophiliacs.

would you like to play cards with me? cause if you think that they're both spade then you're bound to lose.

<< Fio >>

Ri-ra · 19-02-2002 11:22pm

I'm still unsure how people can assert that the Irish education system is "unrivalled." Having experienced foreign education systems, I would have to say that the Irish system leaves a great deal to be desired.

Education is crying out for money, and spending money on it would certainly go a long way toward improving it. Where that money would come from is another matter. A governmental rethink on education is long overdue.

Crash · 19-02-2002 11:29pm

Originally posted by Ri-ra
I'm still unsure how people can assert that the Irish education system is "unrivalled." Having experienced foreign education systems, I would have to say that the Irish system leaves a great deal to be desired.

I wouldnt consider it unrivalled, but having been to both an international school and an RAF run school, plus a few others along the way, i would consider the standard of education to be higher here, or at least the speed at which you are able to learn/absorb the material

Victor · 19-02-2002 11:38pm

Originally posted by smiles
These cutbacks did lead to a deprivation of services, but in my opinion that was a necessary evil.

Like when there were 48 students in my class in 6th class?

smiles · 19-02-2002 11:41pm

Originally posted by Victor

Like when there were 48 students in my class in 6th class?

sounds like thats just your school so.
how did a lack of funding lead to that? you cant make points without backing them up! :P

<< Fio >>

Victor · 19-02-2002 11:52pm

Originally posted by smiles
sounds like thats just your school so. how did a lack of funding lead to that? you cant make points without backing them up!

Troll!

No, i think it happened up and down the country. The reason it arose was because of policy decisions that deprived inner city schools and increase the teacher : pupil ratio during the eighties. Oh, and if anything is predictable, it is demand for teachers (predictable by 4-18 years by using births) I'm sorry but the Department of Education webiste is miserable (http://www.gov.ie/educ/publications/243233a.htm might help), so I can't give you a link.

Ri-ra · 19-02-2002 11:58pm

Originally posted by foobar

I wouldnt consider it unrivalled, but having been to both an international school and an RAF run school, plus a few others along the way, i would consider the standard of education to be higher here, or at least the speed at which you are able to learn/absorb the material

Compared to England's secondary school system, perhaps, but I'm not convinced. Other countries are a different matter. And don't get me started on our third-level institutions...

The real point to be made in this particular thread, however, is that education (as a whole) needs a rethink by the government, and I don't see that happening with the current crowd that is in power.

ReefBreak · 20-02-2002 10:06am

And don't get me started on our third-level institutions...

The third-level you went to perhaps... The one I went to (UL) had unrivalled facilities, and possibly one of the best reputations in Europe. And since I left it's got even better.

smiles · 20-02-2002 3:27pm

Originally posted by Victor
No, i think it happened up and down the country. The reason it arose was because of policy decisions to deprive inner city schools and increase the teacher:pupils ratio during the eighties.

Thats laughable. There was no policy decision that said "lets deprive inner city school". Perhaps it was the result of something else, i'm not sure what policy you are talking about.

Originally posted by Victor
Oh, and if anything is predictable, it is demand for teachers (predictable by 4-18 years by using births)

what has predictability got to do with it? the government cant *force* people to become teachers, as much as they might like to.

Originally posted by Victor
I'm sorry but the Department of Education webiste is miserable (http://www.gov.ie/educ/publications/243233a.htm might help), so I can't give you a link.

I don't want links or that sort of thing, all i want to a valid argument, mean you're talking about policy decisions without saying what the decision was (beyond: "lets deprive inner city schools"), all i want is some meat in your arguments!

<< Fio >>

Ri-ra · 20-02-2002 5:42pm

Originally posted by ReefBreak

The third-level you went to perhaps... The one I went to (UL) had unrivalled facilities, and possibly one of the best reputations in Europe. And since I left it's got even better.

Way to drag this off-topic, Reefbreak. You picked a little corner of my post to troll. I was talking about money for these institutions.

Oh yes, you're absolutely correct: UL is on everybody's lips across Europe, the US, etc.... :rolleyes:

ReefBreak · 20-02-2002 5:47pm

Oh yes, UL is on everybody's lips across Europe...

Riiiiight...

Victor · 22-02-2002 11:23am

Originally posted by smiles
There was no policy decision that said "lets deprive inner city school". Perhaps it was the result of something else, i'm not sure what policy you are talking about.

Sorry, I'm claiming sleep deprivation on that one. I have rephrased what I said.

smiles · 22-02-2002 2:33pm

Thanks for the rephrasing. Still doesnt make sense. My rephrasing: How did the government deliberatly deprive inner city schools?

<< Fio >>

Victor · 23-02-2002 8:11pm

Originally posted by smiles
Thanks for the rephrasing. Still doesnt make sense. My rephrasing: How did the government deliberatly deprive inner city schools?

It didn't, thats why I rephrased. Policy moved people out of the city centres from 1930-1990, creating a doughnut effect. Education funds were then spent duplicating education infrastructure. Teh objective was not to deprive schools, but that was the result.

SHAMAN · 25-02-2002 4:41pm

I'm glad to see that ppl can express what they think is politically correct and that this thread is not as boring as was first asserted....:D

SHAMAN · 26-02-2002 4:20pm

This is probably my longest thread but seriously don't preach or criticise some1 else just because to you they're politically incorrect. I permit debating, but no slagging just because they love Bertie! I suppose that he isn't doin to bad, others wud probably do much worse.

smiles · 26-02-2002 7:32pm

Originally posted by SHAMAN
This is probably my longest thread but seriously don't preach or criticise some1 else just because to you they're politically incorrect. I permit debating, but no slagging just because they love Bertie! I suppose that he isn't doin to bad, others wud probably do much worse.

If I am criticising someone it's not intended as a personal comment, i tend to debate things because they usually need to be, not for any personal reasons.

<< Fio >>

Digi_Tilmitt · 26-02-2002 9:37pm

Originally posted by Ri-ra
I'm still unsure how people can assert that the Irish education system is "unrivalled." Having experienced foreign education systems, I would have to say that the Irish system leaves a great deal to be desired.

Education is crying out for money, and spending money on it would certainly go a long way toward improving it. Where that money would come from is another matter. A governmental rethink on education is long overdue.

I agree. I sit through the governments pathetic education system everyday. The whole system should be changed, teachers can not get through to students at all. It's just so sad and half the teachers think that they are making us into lovely children but when you get to see things from my view, as another student, it is failing so badly. Most students don't think morally at all and have no knowlege of the world around them. I'd label 20% of them as seriously unfit to be called people. Although there is a minority of roughly 20% which are really nice people, the rest are alright.

If we want a happy utopia land we need a better education system but since that will obviously fail I shall return to my quest for chocolate and anime dvd's. ^_^

Victor · 27-02-2002 4:31pm

Originally posted by Ri-ra
I'm still unsure how people can assert that the Irish education system is "unrivalled."

Only spotted this now. This is a mis-nomer. While the Irish system does generally provide the majority with a good overall education to age 18, this is because we typically take 6-8 subjects to Leaving Cert. In the UK I understand that people would typically only do 3-4 A-levels. teh irish sytem is eduction in breadth not depth.

ReefBreak · 27-02-2002 5:03pm

I'd have preferred depth at the time. But in retrospect, breath is a far better way of doing things... A far broader outlook on education. Plus, what you want to do at 17 is not necessarily what you'd want to do at 22.

Crash · 27-02-2002 6:23pm

Ri-Ra:

I would probably on reflection have to admit thaat my views on Irish schools are slightly biased, as i have had relatively good luck in getting teachers tht know the material off by heart nearly, thanks to private education.

As for 3rd level, i have absolutely no points that i can argue there, due to no experience. (still in Secondary education)

Do you think that a new government is a good idea?

Do you think a new government is a good idea? 14 votes

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