did ye notice............

Gil

no bands seem to get any record label attention over here!
like look at the Uk or the states.
they are churning out new bands.
so are we...but they dont get any further than playing vicar st.
except JJ72 who are ludicrous.
but really....its not fair!
it is so hard being independent....where does the money come from?
you work....your band suffers from lack of practice, you dont work and you dont have the money to buy gear, record or rent venues.

sure there are a lot of bol lox bands around dublin...but there are some that with help in the right direction..would blossom.

but we get no help!

when it boils down to it.....its about money....and if ye dont have it....then forget it....and if you do...youre probably a c u n t.

ou est le real record companies?

the fnj

There are more people in England and America. Signing a good record deal and then making it, is very hard to and few do it. It is effectively a lottery so the odds of someone in a big country making it are higher than in a small.

It is a maths thing not a bias against Irish music.

Gil

but still...with the right promotion...it tends to work out.
record companies just dont invest in bands over here unless theyre f u c k i n g talentless aesthetic buttheads.

the fnj

Obviously you haven't heard of Melaton they are far from being talentless etc and sony signed them last year.

atonal

It seems to me that bands are not signed to major lables on the basis of creativity and quality but rather on mass sales potential. Thus record lables are looking for bands that are trendy and will be easy to market. The big trends right now seem to be American - pop-punk, American NuMetal/Rapcore/Mallcore and mopey British radiohead derivitive rock. Indie Irish music is not seen to be a big growth market I dont think. Seems that the kids arent really all that into intelligent lyrics, original arrangements, quality vocals ect. This is not what is selling bands at the moment. I read a statement by Thom Yorke once that said radiohead were only signed because they sounded like Nirvana but were doing it in britan.

yes JJ72 pretty much suck but they are trendy that is why they were signed. In general Irish bands get the shaft from the music industry. I dont think it is because they are Irish per-se but because they are not really trendy (this is a good thing from a musical standpoint) also Dublin is not exactly the center of the major label music industry NY, LA and London are probably better strategic locations for aspiring bands - on the other hand they have really big scenes as well so it is easy for good artists to get lost in the crowd.

but really....its not fair!
it is so hard being independent....where does the money come from?
you work....your band suffers from lack of practice, you dont work and you dont have the money to buy gear, record or rent venues.

Gil - I see this every day. There are so many bands I would really like to see signed because the talent of the members is totally wasted waiting tables and the like. On the other hand so many bands that get signed are just endlessly dicked around and then dropped. Really the whole industry needs to be reformed. There should be more space for bands to exist between hyper-market-driven super stardom and starving artists. There needs to be more venues for bands to get heard. I contend that if the music industry is going to be completely marketing based they could at least market good music - why market trash? and that the radio-listening public's minds could be broadened if they heard more music.

in short: no its not fair, yes it sucks, and I cannot really imagine what can be done about it.

Gil

no i actually havent heard melaton...but i hear theyre top notch....didnt know they were signed though.
but i do intend to see them.

im just frustrated....obviously not the only one.

i guess my only hope is the lotto.

the fnj

I get frustrated too, but I don’t let it get to me. I’d love to be in a band that breaks and starts a music revolution but the harsh reality is I probably won’t.

You have to be philosophical about these things. Sure it’s hard to do but it can be done. Instead of moaning about it try do something that promotes your act. I’m doing a music management course and we had a talk from Hugh Murray (Sony’s A&R representative in Ireland). One thing he said is to get your band known if you want record label attention. Do something that gets you in the papers brings you to the attention of the regular Irish people.

Bands will argue we don’t need cheap publicity “our music is what will get us noticed”. Unfortunately that is bull****. You can be the most talented band, writing really good original sounding songs and you still won’t get a record deal if you try make it using just the music and refuse to “sell out”. Every band who breaks has to “sell out” to a certain degree. Of course it’s the arm chair critics who will call them sell outs. Why are they “sell outs” because when they were negotiating a contract deal they had to make compromises.

If you want to make it big in the music industry you have to sell your soul to devil if it will sell you records. Once your established then you can start undoing all the selling out you did.

pixe

Record companies don't go out there anymore and find an act. That day is dead and gone. You need a ****ing flare gun and major hipe to get anyones interest. Unlike in U2's day were people went to gigs, people just ar'nt like that anymore, and so there is'nt as much hipe.

If bands can't get the crowds how else are people going to notice them? (and were not just talking one or two gigs, it needs to be all the time, and saddly your ma and best freind can't go all to all the gigs)


Check this site out:

www.gigsmartireland.com

Maybe with something like this they can only but notice, as the bands start to help each other out, get better gigs and hopefully get those big gigs that record companies notice.
Because everyone supports everyone in gigsmart there is a constant buzz, and further more there's people at the gigs, which is more likely to entice more people to gigs (and it has: mono, international, shelter all packed out gigsmart gigs mainly by people who walked in off the street wondering what all the other people were checking out....and they come back again and again)

Already people are starting to take a look at whats going on promoters, pubs, radiostations and newpapers. A new music scene created by Irish bands and they're music and it's only been a few months.

If your out there on your own you could be pissing agaist the wind for years and still nothing. At least in a larger group, people get curious, wondering what all the hipe is about, and hopefully this will hipe will adventally make it's way to some of the record companies, that will then in turn check out some of the talent on board.

Gar_ptc

when i get fully jiving on my band;all i want to do is play gigs;and release a few albums...but most of all i want to tour all over UK and play in the afternoon in reading..
but to do this i'm sure i';ll need a record company....

what to do....

i'm sure most bands have such medium ambitions also....
who actually wants to make money from music?

my album at the mo' ,im giving it away,sadly its taking time...

atonal

Yeah I think that whole gigsmart idea is a really good one. Adds a bit of profile and power to the bands and a number of those bands are class bands as well which helps.
One problem I see is that bands are not necessarily scheduled by club owners compatibly so often I go to see a band and really hate the other bands, the crowd for each band is totally different and divided. I went to see a buddy's band the other week it was sort of an alt-pop band very good but the next singer in the card was sort of male Tracy DiFranco his fans sat in agony through my friends set and although the kid was quite talented I had no intrest in his music. Neither artitst, although both were quite talented, was reaching a new audience that night. I have yet to find another band I liked by going to see one I allreday liked. I do have a list of bands I would avoid like the plague. More coordination (like gig-smart) between up and coming bands seems to have some really good potential.
I remain unconvinced that the lables really care too much about the crowds at gigs- obviously it dosent hurt but the hard core drinking on a weekday hungover at work for the sake of music fans are not really who the lables are targeting we allready have our music. They are looking for stuff they can sell to millions.

Thomas from Presence

When we organise a line up at a gigsmart gig we make it a priority to make sure that the bands on the bill are compatible.

If you go to an unsigned band gig where a promoter has six bands sandwiched together of disparate music the sound suffers and as atonal points out the bands don't expand their following.

As regards label interest Pixie has it bang on. Lose that dream and do your best, get on top in Ireland (not hard if your good by international standards) then get out of Ireland.

Hopefully by better organisation with gigsmart then the a&r men might take an interest in Dublin again (like the post-u2, post cranberries times) and we can drive a stake deep into the heart of Louis Walsh till his heart goes black and dies!!!!!!!!!!!

Trev M

Stake.....Black Heart ....wwwhhhuuuuuuuhaaahahahaaaaaa

I love it!

Thanks Atonal for your comments we try and take all of the suggestions onboard, myself and Tom communicate and meet regularly to discuss input from outside the gigsmart community regularly.

All the best - Trev M

playground

Record companies don't go out there anymore and find an act. That day is dead and gone.

Hmmm. Not quite true. Only a couple of weeks ago a friend of mine had a couple of guys from Island, BMG plus a very famous band come to his gig on spec and it has led to great things. I don't want to hex it by speaking about it.

All I'm saying is, if you ask them, they will come. It's just a matter of picking up the phone. You have to do a little leg work...or is that day dead and gone too?

pixe

The day that I was taking about is when scouts went out there and searched for the next big thing, rather than the bands going out there and begging the companyies to give them there big break. the was a time when that was offered. Not anymore.

Your friend seems to be a rare case (and I hope they do well)because I hav'nt heard of anyone getting any interest, unless they have management or/and management with close conections with a promoter! Even bands I do know that have been signed who tryed it on there own first, have said that even though their music was the same they needed that other person before the companies would take any interest.

Secondly, I'd love to know the phone numbers of all the record companies you know. Even if you did get get the right numbers and possilbey get to talk to someone who could do anything for you, you'd have to have some hipe surrounding you to make them come to check you out.

I never said that anything about not doing any leg work, just made the point that it is all in vain unless record companies can see the hipe surrounding you, and see people at the Gigs.

atonal

first off I just want to clarify I was not saying gigsmart misaligned bands - exactly the opposite - in case that my statement was misconstrued.

As far as label attention god knows how or what bands get that - it definitely is not about quality alone. When the record companies come out looking for the next big thing I think in general they are looking for something specific, bands that fit into a current marketing trend. The day you are speaking about Pixe will come if an entire scene is getting hype - like Seattle in the Early 90's or the current rage of brithish Radiohead clones. A band that can buid its own hype - get a following and get label attention that way is really impressive. Many are trying but jeez it seems a number of bands are known to the execs, the lables know they are good but wont sign them because they dont fit into a marketing demographic. Sad. If one band from a scene breaks big they will come looking for similar bands

Thomas from Presence

Not at all my good fellow! I was just restating our line-up policy just to show that we work it the best way we can!

If one band from a scene breaks big they will come looking for similar bands

Bang on, thats why we need every band to be the best they can be at every gig. Professionalism, performance, musicianship, quality of songs and variety of music will win the day for Ireland again.

As I said b4, there was a deluge of A&R men after U2 and the Cranberries cracked it so.....

playground

I know for a fact that Lakota will come to see a band play if the band ask them. And no you don't need a manager or a middle man to ask them for you and you certainly don't need hype. I'm not saying they'll give you a deal (they didn't give us one) but they do turn up and do offer their advice/opinion afterwards.

pixe

The fact is, that no record company will sign anyone unless there is hipe at the gigs regardless of talent (well maybe a bit, but if you've got the crowd and you look like you could make the company money it would be bad busness on they're part not to concider a deal)....nice of them to turn up, but your just waisting their time untill you can show them a product that will sell (ie that the people are at the gigs).

Most companyies have copped on to that, and thus they don't send out A&R men till they hear more about a band/musician from more than just from the musicians themselves.

The problem is that even if you did get a deal one company , since that is the only deal offered on the table they could give you a really ****ty deal.
Mates of mine were offered a crap deal but took it nearly for the reason as it was all they were offed at the time. It could of ment that they lost some rights to songs, crap money, and a long contract. Only when they got a manager they could then get involved with some promotion, did some other companies arrive, giving room for deals to be nogiated....ie..when they had the hipe!

manofspeed

One of the main reasons why labels are signing fewer bands has to do with the fact that practically all labels are now owned by the big six .

This means a trimming down at the lower end of their companies (the 'so-called' independents) and a massive push for the big artists that have already confirmed their popularity - hence the massive $40-80m record deals with the likes of Metallica, REM, Mariah Carey etc. Look what happened to a band like Elbow - this is what is going on all over the world.

Most bands on first albums only sell maybe 50,000 copies, which will now get you dropped. In the older days, this was less likely - think of all the bands with crap/mediocre first albums that went on to produce genius albums later on and ask yourself would they retain a recording contract now if that was done today - now you have to nail it first time or you are phucked.

The fact is the industry is a business and not a privilege for musicians.

And despite all the paranoid views about Ireland being ignored, the reality unfortunately is that the quality of bands is NOT that high. I've seen maybe 100+ Irish bands live in the last year, and only a small few are contenders, and even at that it is very tough. At the moment that is starting to change, but the bands do have to try harder. Release your own stuff and phuck the industry. If you believe in your own product, then you might as well try and release it....


www.speedman.ie

pixe

I could'nt agree more

Gar_ptc

bloody true.

Raggamuffin

Well i particularly remember an occasion in a dressing room where i observed some A&R guys talking about the Irish music scene.

Suggestions were tossed around such as Sony A&R the guy has a poisoned chalice if he signs anyone he will get fired, so meaning he is there not to sign anyone. Confusing is'nt it.

I found it digusting how promoters and managers talked it just took away from everything that i listen to on a CD or at a gig knowing all the **** that most bands have to put up with. Record Companies will come to see your band as i've seen BMG floating around all the time aswell as Island and Columbia but to be perfectly honest most of the bands they choose haev 99% commercial value 1% musical Talent or originality.

Hype is easy to create hoever if you have the money and the support (MCD, Louis Walshe). But somebody said it right though that record companies rarely go for "promising acts". Its just what will make me the most money the fastest.

Steve Albnini's "the problem with music" is a good read he actually has very little dealings with reacord companies going back to the oral contracts dealings with touch&Go and his band Big Black (the Butthole surfers all sued touch&go since there was only an Oral contract)

I think tha there are alot of talented musicians who actually don't start bands because
A. they hate people
B. THe hate the music scene or
C. they don't really see the light at the end of any tunnel.

i like going to gigs GOOD gigs, one being a Les savy Fav gig in the parnell mooney a while ago. It was amazing so much fun and so relaxed. God i only by chance heard about it were it not for http://www.thumped.com

I wish more bands came to ireland without going through MCD or big promoters they are for the most of the time bad for Music and GOOD for business......

I;m on the gigsmart website now so i cant really comment as yet but seems good

pugwall

Bellx1 recently signed the dotted line for Island and Sonora are in talks with a major label as we type...............so there:D

atonal

Originally posted by Raggamuffin
the bands they choose haev 99% commercial value 1% musical Talent or originality.

Hype is easy to create hoever if you have the money and the support .

Both very true and somewhat tragic

Pugwal: BellX1 are good band I think and I am happy they got a deal. Hopefully they will not just get messed with and dropped in a "spring cleaning" or something but they are also quite marketable falling nicely in line with the whole bends-era-radiohead thing now and all of those radiohead derivative british bands. This is among the better trends in music currently, (certainly better than pop-punk or rap-core i/m/o) but it is still more or less trend based.

Raggamuffin

but to be honest we don't really want "trends" just a decent band to listen to and enjoy at home or ona night out something to get involved in.

record deals are not the greatest but they do allow bands to tour.

read that Steve Albini "the problem with music" a real eye opener

atonal

that was sort of my point

Raggamuffin

oh all right..

sorry