Pc Vs Mac

havok* · 30-01-2002 8:41pm #1

who here prefares working on PC or Mac?

Oeneus · 30-01-2002 9:22pm

I love MACs, but I'm yet to be able to afford one.

MMMMMMmmmmmmm....G4 cube. Out of Date but still small, quiet, and has a cd rom drive like a toaster! Mmmmmmmmmmm....

Figment · 30-01-2002 11:42pm

I dont mind either. The applications are layed out much the same so i can just as easly work on both.

31-01-2002 2:20pm

PCs, well windows, I guess.

I prefer the interface in Windows compared to the Mac one.

There's just so many more shortcuts and flexibility.

There are a few features that I like with MacOS but generally it sucks in comparision. It's just the little things. I work much better on a PC.

maybe MacOS X will change that though.

Having a Command Line would add alot more power to the Mac.

- Kevin

Baz_ · 31-01-2002 3:03pm

it should have been an os thread, because personally I prefer linux.

Figment · 31-01-2002 3:45pm

oh, i didnt realise they had photoshop, illustrator, flash, 3dmax, painter and the rest on linux. Silly me for thinking it a techy plaything with little realworld uses for the design community. But there i go again, always following the pack with little thought.

ObeyGiant · 31-01-2002 4:15pm

Originally posted by Figment
oh, i didnt realise they had photoshop, illustrator, flash, 3dmax, painter and the rest on linux. Silly me for thinking it a techy plaything with little realworld uses for the design community. But there i go again, always following the pack with little thought.

I think you're being a little harsh.
The applications you list above are not the be-all-end-all of design tools.
GIMP is a good all-round graphics tool (Although not quite as full-featured as Photoshop).
Flash.. well, my personal aversion to Flash means that it's not much of a loss. But that's just me.
As for 3D programs.. I don't know if you've heard of Blender, but it's pretty powerful. An unusual interface, without question, but without a doubt, a worthy replacement (Free too!).

As I said, the programs you listed are not the be-all-end-all of design tools. There are plenty of designers who use Linux as their primary desktop. Garrett from linuxart.com is an example of this, same goes for tigert (tigert.gimp.org.

Hell.. Dreamworks use Linux for all their animation (albeit with their own in-house, proprietary tools). That's gotta count for something.

Baz_ · 31-01-2002 4:35pm

http://www.blender3d.com/ - already mentioned
http://www.gimp.org/ - already mentioned
http://www.koffice.org/kontour/ -previously killustrator a review here
http://www.showmelinux.com/072000/article3.html

Cant find anything for flash or painter. Silly me, I forgot Linux was only a techy plaything too, what was I thinking. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Figment · 31-01-2002 5:16pm

DeVore · 31-01-2002 5:30pm

Why have cotton when you can have silk.

DeV.

Baz_ · 31-01-2002 5:36pm

why indeed, oh wait thats spam!!!!

DeVore · 31-01-2002 5:53pm

Still, trollish as it is, its a question I have yet to see answered.

I ask again:

Why have cotton when you can have silk?

Without an answer to that I think Figment wins...

DeV.

Baz_ · 31-01-2002 5:55pm

I think figment wins by virtue of his experience, I was just trying to do a little eye-opening.

FreaK_BrutheR · 31-01-2002 6:08pm

A computer is medium of design. One dosen't really differ much from the other long as you've got the SKILLZ! its a way to an end. I feel it much like paint....

Acrylic or Oil Paints?

Figment · 31-01-2002 6:17pm

Oil of course!

</troll>

ObeyGiant · 31-01-2002 6:30pm

Originally posted by DeVore
Without an answer to that I think Figment wins...

TrollISH?
The point is absolutly redundant.

Of the major players in this debate, I would like to put forward this statement: I win.

Allow me to explain.

Havok* started the thread.. top marks, but dropped the ball by misspelling "prefers". B-.

Figment sat on the fence in his original post. Sure, it's easy to switch between Mac and PC, and getting down to it, most applications have the same interface on both OSes, but people always have a preference. Hence the reason for the original thread. C-

Baz_ chimed in stating a preference for "Linux" - not an architecture, so only a B- for taking the thread off-topic.

Figment once again stepped in, and proceeded to take the thread further off-topic. This time going so far as to make some ridiculous point, listing the ubiquitous design tools, and stating that these were not available on Linux - ergo, Linux could never be used by real designers, in the design community. Drops to D- for taking the thread further off-topic, and then to F for making incorrect assumptions regarding Linux's uses within the design community.

I then added my own two cents, stating quite objectively that Linux does not need the tools listed by Figment to be used by designers, and that the lack of 3DS Max does not render Baz_'s opinion any less valid than anyone elses. For making valid points relating to design tools, but feeding the trolls, I only score a B.

Figment countered this with a smiley face. For this, he dropped to an NG.

DeVore's initial post consisted of an obscure statement. At first, I was unsure if he was pro-linux (silky-smooth stability, no crashing graphics tools, or graphics tools whipping away all available RAM - to the point where you drop any network connections), pro-windows (uh.. maybe Linux was 'cotton'. Describing Windows as 'silky' is certainly pushing it), or pro-mac (Silky-smooth GUI.. beautiful). Or was he merely quoting a chocolate bar's slogan? I held off on judgement.

After Baz_'s brief reappearance, DeVore made himself more clear - he was .. pro-windows. Without giving any reasons, no less! Nor giving any reasons why his point relates to this particular thread! Not only that, but he agrees with Figment's off-topic and.. well.. just plain wrong post. NG, once again.

Baz_ concedes victory, and in doing so, drops his overall mark down to a C, must try harder.

As I have shown, with a B, I win.

havok* · 31-01-2002 6:34pm

Originally posted by ObeyGiant

The applications you list above are not the be-all-end-all of design tools.

Mabye not, but they are the industry standard...

As for os, Macs and PC work on completely different systems, its not just to os that makes a differance.
It cannot be argued that macs are faster @ 2d work, they shift ram a hell of alot faster then pc's. They also look way more trendy

I still prefare Pc's cos there more versitile, from what i hear macs are complete ****e for 3d work,
Also u have to drag out each box to maximise it, which can be really really annoying.

FB: Acrylic paint (nice and messy)

ObeyGiant · 31-01-2002 6:42pm

Originally posted by havok*
Mabye not, but they are the industry standard...

Once you can output your work to an actual standard (proprietary files like those used to save photoshop, illustrator and 3ds files are never, and should never be standard) (oh, and even still - GIMP can open most PST files), it really doesn't matter what you use to get the job done.

DeVore · 31-01-2002 8:54pm

Well then allow me to sit the summer repeats...

Read your post again

I think you're being a little harsh.
The applications you list above are not the be-all-end-all of design tools.
GIMP is a good all-round graphics tool (Although not quite as full-featured as Photoshop).
Flash.. well, my personal aversion to Flash means that it's not much of a loss. But that's just me.
As for 3D programs.. I don't know if you've heard of Blender, but it's pretty powerful. An unusual interface, without question, but without a doubt, a worthy replacement (Free too!).

As I said, the programs you listed are not the be-all-end-all of design tools. There are plenty of designers who use Linux as their primary desktop. Garrett from linuxart.com is an example of this, same goes for tigert (tigert.gimp.org.

Hell.. Dreamworks use Linux for all their animation (albeit with their own in-house, proprietary tools). That's gotta count for something.

"Why have cotton when you can have silk" by that I meant
why settle for working with unknown utilities that *you* swear can do everything 3DMAx, Flash, Illustrator and Photoshop can do... when you could just use those tools.

I dont doubt you *could* just use those tools but citing some bloke from linuxart.com and someone on the GIMP site is hardly proving it can cut it in the real design world. Your point about Dreamworks just proves it further... we dont all have time to write our own applications...

My point is:
1. Its unacceptible for a web-designer to say "I dont do Flash because my OS doesnt run the design tool and besides I dont like it...".

2. You accept that GIMP is not as powerful as Photoshop

3. Blender has a dodgy interface (by your admission) and skills built up in it are not as saleable as 3DSMax in the market. I highly doubt it can do a lot of the things 3DSMax can.

So by your own admission just about every designers tool you cite for Linux is substandard to its PC/Mac counterpart.

Hence my question:
"Why have cotton when you can have silk?"
Why settle for the lesser system ... where are the positives?

I think teacher has been drinking again... Expelled.

DeV.

Baz_ · 01-02-2002 12:48am

hahahahahahaha

I think thats the longest post I've ever seen from Dev, these polls are great for flame wars.

havok* · 01-02-2002 10:39am

Originally posted by ObeyGiant

TrollISH?
Havok* started the thread.. top marks, but dropped the ball by misspelling "prefers". B-.

Hmmm, as most ppl already know i am dyslexic. I cannot spell.
I'll thank u not to stare...

Originally posted by ObeyGiant

TrollISH?
Sure, it's easy to switch between Mac and PC, and getting down to it, most applications have the same interface on both OSes, but people always have a preference. Hence the reason for the original thread. C-

Wrong, this is'nt and os thread. This is'nt a programming/tech board.
Allow me to explain:
You walk into any Design house, and you'll be lucky to find a PC anywhere, every1 uses Mac's. It's the Industry Sanadard.
As i have already stated in my last post, mac and pc's are built and work differently.
Web Developers on the other hand, which have a mix of programming, Sales, Design staff genrally use PC's. It can save alot of hassle, Pc's cant read alot of mac files.
Alot of ppl (like myself) that work Freelance use PC's also.
The thread was Pc's Vs Mac's, in which os is just a small part...

Originally posted by ObeyGiant

I then added my own two cents, stating quite objectively that Linux does not need the tools listed by Figment to be used by designers, and that the lack of 3DS Max does not render Baz_'s opinion any less valid than anyone elses. For making valid points relating to design tools, but feeding the trolls, I only score a B.

Actully, its probobly the only valid point any1 has posted yet. Regardless of how good u think Gimp / Blender etc are, fact is there not really used in the industry. Beleive me, I know quite alot of proffessional designers, none of which use them.
So having established that (how my spelling btw ?) its fair to assume you can take programs like Photoshop, Illustrator, Max as the most commonly known/used proggies, and therefore good referance to bacing an argument on weather Mac's or Pc's handle them better. Hence the topic of the thread

Originally posted by Devore

Why have cotton when you can have silk?

Originally posted by ObeyGiant

DeVore's initial post consisted of an obscure statement. At first, I was unsure if he was pro-linux (silky-smooth stability, no crashing graphics tools, or graphics tools whipping away all available RAM - to the point where you drop any network connections), pro-windows (uh.. maybe Linux was 'cotton'. Describing Windows as 'silky' is certainly pushing it), or pro-mac (Silky-smooth GUI.. beautiful). Or was he merely quoting a chocolate bar's slogan? I held off on judgement.

After Baz_'s brief reappearance, DeVore made himself more clear - he was .. pro-windows. Without giving any reasons, no less! Nor giving any reasons why his point relates to this particular thread! Not only that, but he agrees with Figment's off-topic and.. well.. just plain wrong post. NG, once again.

TBH i think Dev was refering to the programs rather then the os's. Why have cotton (Gimp/Blender etc) when you can have silk (Photoshop, Max ect)
Mabye Dev can Clear that one up.

Originally posted by ObeyGiant

As I have shown, with a B, I win.

Your medal's in the post...

Genrally we dont grade threads, i beleive that right is reserved for master posters like yourself who's opionions are above the genral populas.

Inferiority Complex?

po0k · 01-02-2002 4:14pm

AmigoOS.

0wned...albeit by a small and diminsihing band of Scandivaian artist with their accelerated A4000s

I've used Macs, Linux and Windows.
Win2k is class.
My PuTTy terminal gives me access to all I need (atm) and I used MAcs for a period of three months doing maps, databases and drawings.

Hated the bastids. Coldn't tweak anything. Sluggish awkward GUI...would benefit a hell of a lot from a second mouse button.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that Macs move memory faster. They have SDRAM, and though the G4 and associated Chipsets may have higher bandwidth (I haven't read into it much) SDRAM is still limited compared to DDR or RAMBUS (what ye should be using anyways if ye're serious about moving large chunks of data quickly - look at SGi machines).

The Macs do make more efficient use of ram though and many other OSes could talke a leaf from the apple-scented book

Gordon · 01-02-2002 9:37pm

Macs shine
[vote] Mac
[/vote]
OSX uses Ram very well as opposed to the older OS's of Mac where you would tell the system how much RAM to give the app.
One great advantage of Mac's is the chip... http://www.apple.com/g4/myth/ will take you to a great explanation of how different chip process information, granted biased towards Macs but a great insight to newbs on the onus of megahertz.

I want cake

po0k · 04-02-2002 8:57am

True. Hence the greater cost per megahertz

I saw a bench mark in an Arts mag in Easons a while back.
They tested a dual 800Mhz G4 against some BOXX PC with a Xeon cpu/P4. Also tested them agaisnt a 400Mhz G4.
The 800daulie wasn't even twice as fast as the 400 single cpu. What does that tell you about OSX's multi-threading code?
I honestly can't remember what the P4 got. Think it was roughly the same (albeit from a P4 1.6Ghz ~ equal to a 2*800G4 clock speed wize - though theoreticla performance should have swayed heavily in the way of the Mac). Does anyone know about the mac's ability to do dual processing?

Gerry · 04-02-2002 9:38am

Quite an interesting thread, this is where mac users get to outline what a mac has over a pc, given that the pc has the same software (photoshop, 3ds, maya, etc etc)

By the way, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking a question

Is it that the developers concentrate on the mac versions, making them more desirable than the pc version, or does everything just run faster on a mac?

Syxpak, the apple chipsets are still not up to scratch performance wise, and could be said to be holding back the performance of the G4. Performance on multithreaded apps varies greatly. On 3dsmax, you should get almost a 100% boost, similar to a pc. ON photoshop the gains won't be as good, perhaps 50-60% on some filters, 90%+ on a few, and 0-20% on an awful lot of them.
The G4 certainly does not move memory around faster, but perhaps software on macs is more memory efficient? I dunno.

ObeyGiant · 04-02-2002 10:57am

Originally posted by DeVore
"Why have cotton when you can have silk" by that I meant
why settle for working with unknown utilities that *you* swear can do everything 3DMAx, Flash, Illustrator and Photoshop can do... when you could just use those tools.

I gave examples where they could - but overall, it's of little importance, once the tool you use gets the job done, agreed?

Originally posted by DeVore
I dont doubt you *could* just use those tools but citing some bloke from linuxart.com and someone on the GIMP site is hardly proving it can cut it in the real design world.

Excuse me if I'm wrong here - but surely the topic was about who preferred what.. not what are the definitive tools for the entire design community?. If you want the topic to go in this direction - why not start a thread that way, instead of chiming into a topic about people's opinions and making sophomoric assumptions about people's abilities to do certain things with the tools they choose to use. I gave real-world examples of the tools I mentioned in use. People do use them. In other words, people do "choose cotton when they can have silk" - as I'll explain anon.

Originally posted by DeVore
Your point about Dreamworks just proves it further... we dont all have time to write our own applications...

More's the pity.

Originally posted by DeVore
1. Its unacceptible for a web-designer to say "I dont do Flash because my OS doesnt run the design tool and besides I dont like it...".

I don't do flash because in my mind, it is not a design tool, it is a crutch. I come from an accessibility/usability background, and it is for these reasons that I don't "do" flash. It is impossible to create an accessibile version of flash, and I have seen very few examples of a usable interface created in flash. Those that are out there are suffocated by the overwhelming number of dreadful "nu-media" interfaces that serve no purpose other than to give the designer an inflated sense of self-worth.

Having said this - I have seen some wonderful animated short films done in flash - perhaps what it is best used for?

Originally posted by DeVore
2. You accept that GIMP is not as powerful as Photoshop

Of course, but mainly because it's got a non-intuitive interface. Add to this the fact that it gets more powerful with every release, and the fact that it's interface can be modified by a few patches (KIMP makes it a bit more photoshop-like, with all the windows contained within one window).
Once again though, I must repeat myself, it does the job.

Originally posted by DeVore
3. Blender has a dodgy interface (by your admission) and skills built up in it are not as saleable as 3DSMax in the market. I highly doubt it can do a lot of the things 3DSMax can.

Blender, again, has a non-intuitive interface, but once you come to terms with the plethora of keyboard shortcuts, it makes a lot more sense than 3DSMax. As for whether it can do a lot of the things 3DSMax can - of course it can't. I'd be a fool and a liar to say otherwise. But you'd be a fool and an idiot to assume that you could get the same power out of a Free tool as you can with something that costs .. well.. more than I can afford. It's a fantastic tool for cutting your teeth in the world of 3D design.

But once again, I must ask you to look at the topic of this thread - is this about what is the most powerful tool? Or what people prefer to use?

Originally posted by DeVore
So by your own admission just about every designers tool you cite for Linux is substandard to its PC/Mac counterpart.

Substandard? Perhaps at first. GIMP can do just about everything photoshop can - you just need to learn the esoteric incantations to get it to work.

Originally posted by DeVore
Hence my question:
"Why have cotton when you can have silk?"
Why settle for the lesser system ... where are the positives?

An entire design shop for the cost of your computer, vs and entire design shop for the cost of a mortgage. Surely this was obvious?

po0k · 04-02-2002 3:27pm

Originally posted by Gerry

The G4 certainly does not move memory around faster, but perhaps software on macs is more memory efficient? I dunno.

Pretty much the gist of comparing Mac and PC hardware.
I can't believe though that it's only recently that they allowed other graphics cards to be used in Macs (VooDoos excepted). ATi ad their monopoly....G4s with Rage128 chipsets <shudder>.

Anyone hear anything about the AmigaONE coming out?
I'd imagine it has a G4 in it somewhere.........

I'm content to use my P3 800 and Paintshop pro. Can't stand Photoshop's fiddliness.

po0k · 04-02-2002 3:31pm

http://www.amiga.com/products/one/pr.php

Kairo · 04-02-2002 4:14pm

AmigaONE = So Mine

I'm actually leeching the net in the multimedia lab in my college at the moment, and theres not a mac in site.

po0k · 04-02-2002 4:54pm

from:Old-computers.com
The commodore 64 is, along with the Apple II and the Atari XL computers, the most famous home computer. During its production from 1982 to 1993 (!) 17 to 22 million (!) of these computer would sell, to put in perspective, that's more than all the Macintoshes in the world.

LOL

This is by far one of the best sites I've found in a long while.

[EDIT] Fúcked up a bit of UBB code....[/EDIT]

Pc Vs Mac

Which do u prefare ? 23 votes

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