"Martin outlines plan to ban smoking in pubs"

Meh

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0130/breaking39.htm

Smoking would be banned in pubs across the Republic under new proposals disclosed by the Government today.

The Minister for Health Mr Micheal Martin said he would propose laws to ban cigarettes in many public places, including licensed premises.

In a Dáil committee Mr Martin was asked by Mr Gay Mitchell, Fine Gael's spokesman for health, why pubs had not been directly proposed as smoke-free zones under the Public Health (Tobacco) Bill.

Mr Martin said he proposed to add an amendment to the Bill "later" which would bring pubs under the same no-smoking umbrella.

Mr Mitchell told the select Committee on Health and Children: "According to statistics supplied by the Department of Health there are now 7,000 deaths each year attributed to smoking."

He said lung cancer rates in the republic had increased from 9.7 per cent 30 years ago to more than 20 per cent today.

He said: "Based on statistics from the United States, the third biggest killer ... is indirect smoking. So perhaps up to 900 deaths in the republic each year are attributed to indirect smoking . . . In other words, somebody goes for a pint and they smoke someone else's cigarette when they do not smoke themselves."

He also criticised the wording in the proposed laws, which directly refers to cinemas and schools, where smoking is already banned but does not mention pubs.

But Mr Martin responded, saying the absence of pubs on the list did not mean they would be excluded from the law.

"Let's not have any doubt out there," he said. "I have an amendment coming out later which mentions the workplace and pubs, or licensed premises, and we are adding those two to the list."

I'm not a smoker myself, but I think this is a bit strict. Why not introduce legislation to force the pubs to install proper air conditioning instead? This could be restricted to pubs with above a certain level of turnover, so it doesn't put smaller pubs out of business...

Hobbes

about time.

bonkey

Originally posted by Meh
Why not introduce legislation to force the pubs to install proper air conditioning instead? This could be restricted to pubs with above a certain level of turnover, so it doesn't put smaller pubs out of business...

Wouldnt work - that would put the larger pubs out of business as all the smokers rushed to their last havens.

Personally, as a sometime-smoker (or somewhat-reformed-fulltie-smoker) I think its a great idea. Its simple, cost effective, non-discriminatory (except to smokers) and generally all round a good idea.

jc

Meh

Originally posted by bonkey
Wouldnt work - that would put the larger pubs out of business as all the smokers rushed to their last havens.

...and then the smaller pubs would increase turnover over the threshold and have to install the air conditioning.

EvilGeorge

Not a smoker myself, but seriously , I think it would be bad for pus obviously, how much money do the government earn in tax of driinks for a start - would they chance it ??

The Sweeper

*ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooowwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllllllllllllll*

How would all of ye who enjoy a pint like it if the government decided to introduce prohibition?

I mean, alcohol is an injurious substance that when taken regularly in excess damages health, so snap on the ciggies there, alcoholics ruin other peoples lives so that could be construed as 'passive alcoholing', blah blah.

I'm browned off that the government have picked cigarettes as their hobby horse.

I don't like a smokey pub any more than anyone else, and I do appreciate good air conditioning, but I'm not in favour of a government decision to restrict my freedom to smoke down the pub.

It just shows where their priorities are - the pub is the sacred sanctum in Ireland, so politicians would never propose to ban the humble beer.

I'd be interested to see how much of the government's annual health budget is spent on tobacco-related cancer, and how much of it goes on alcohol-related diseases...

flyz

To be honest how many country pubs do you think are going to conform to that law? Very few I'd say. You're lucky enough to get them to stop serving at closing time

I'm a smoker and I ain't looking forward to that leglistlation coming in. On the other hand it's only a matter of time before it does come in.

What I would agree with more is to only allow smoking in pubs after a certain time at night, say 9pm.

Take McDonalds for example.. they claim to be a no - smoking restaurant (if you can call them that :-)) but they don't enforce the no smoking rule in there after 10pm. they know it would be a waste of time.

Imagine you job was having to go around a packed pub on a saturday night to tell drunk ppl that they can't smoke!

Trojan

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels
How would all of ye who enjoy a pint like it if the government decided to introduce prohibition?

Personally I've heard it too many times before and am sick of telling the smokers that whilst I am not physically pouring drink down their throat, they are polluting my air, and I don't have much choice except leave. A non-drinker can choose not to drink and still go to the pub.

Question to the audience: do you believe in this comparison of alcohol and cigarettes?

Al.

Meh

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels
I mean, alcohol is an injurious substance that when taken regularly in excess damages health, so snap on the ciggies there, alcoholics ruin other peoples lives so that could be construed as 'passive alcoholing', blah blah.

The difference is that the vast majority of drinkers don't injure their health or other people's health with alcohol.

I'm browned off that the government have picked cigarettes as their hobby horse.

Well I'm browned off that my taxes have to pay for lung cancer treatment for smokers.

I don't like a smokey pub any more than anyone else, and I do appreciate good air conditioning, but I'm not in favour of a government decision to restrict my freedom to smoke down the pub.

What about other people's freedom to enjoy a pint without being suffocated by cigarette fumes?

Hobbes

You can if you start handing out fines, not to the punters but to the actual pub.

flyz

Originally posted by Hobbes
You can if you start handing out fines, not to the punters but to the actual pub.

Like they do for the late serving??
Ha that's a joke, all pubs get is a slap on the wrist and nothing else!
Either that or the owners of the pub have the local gardas paid off nicely to stay away from the pub at closing time. there's a lot of politics involved in running a pub.

seamus

Originally posted by flyz
To be honest how many country pubs do you think are going to conform to that law? Very few I'd say. You're lucky enough to get them to stop serving at closing time

Tbh, how many Dublin pubs will conform? I have never seen Gardai come into a pub, except where there was a serious fight or sumthing, and it's almost impossible to enforce any other legislation on pubs. Prices still go up despite freezes, and young people can still get in with Fake I.D.'s. Like everything else in this country, the government means well, but lack the balls to back it up.

Imagine you job was having to go around a packed pub on a saturday night to tell drunk ppl that they can't smoke!

Absolute nightmare. Most of them would go, oh, ok, then light up once you're gone, and some will get violent and smash your head open with a bottle. I don't think anyone will be on for enforcing it.

As I already said, nice idea, but we won't notice an ounce of a difference if it comes in.

frankly

As a part time smoker, I only smoke when I drink, I don't like the idea. But i'm sure it'll happen because it's been introduced in the US and we do tend to follow their example.
As to the arguement that non smokers don't like to be polluted with the smoke from ciggies, fair enough but as one who works in Dublin City I can assure you that the fumes from the traffic is far more harmful to ones health.

Manach

Against the idea, for it is the Government playing the role of nanny of the state. A pub is a place for relaxation not of instrusive rules.

BTW - non-smoker myself

azezil

I think its a good idea but it'll never work!

I believe they tried it in a pub in galway a few years back? They gave up on the idea after a couple of weeks cause noone came in.:rolleyes:

Blade

Originally posted by Meh
I'm not a smoker myself, but I think this is a bit strict. Why not introduce legislation to force the pubs to install proper air conditioning instead? This could be restricted to pubs with above a certain level of turnover, so it doesn't put smaller pubs out of business...

You then answered to Minesajackdaniels quote:
I don't like a smokey pub any more than anyone else, and I do appreciate good air conditioning, but I'm not in favour of a government decision to restrict my freedom to smoke down the pub.

What about other people's freedom to enjoy a pint without being suffocated by cigarette fumes?

So make up your mind, are you in favour of not banning smoking but enforcing proper air extraction or would you just ban it? Interesting to see how you voted in your own poll when you can't even seem to make up your own mind.

The difference is that the vast majority of drinkers don't injure their health or other people's health with alcohol.

What a pile of $hite, alcohol kills something like 10,000 brain cells per pint, f*cks up your liver and is one of the biggest causes of violent crimes, marital and family break-ups in Ireland. Don't tell me it doesn't affect you and the people around you.

I gave up smoking 6 months ago but I don't go on like the typical reformed smoker anoying the $hit out of everyone who lights up a fag in my company, unless of course they leave it in an ashtray and it's going straight up my nose. I even let people smoke in my car once they open the window. I don't think it's right to discriminate 'completely' against smokers because most of todays smokers got addicted when they were young and foolish and at a time when it was generally acceptable in society to smoke. Of course we have to move on and change that but an all out ban on smoking in a pub is IMO unfair to smokers in an environment where smoking and drinking always went hand in hand. I was expecting the next step to be 'no smoking at the bar' and designated smoking areas in pubs and of course proper smoke extraction. This IMO would be a much better idea.

I think pubs and nightclubs are going to loose a fortune over this as it will simply create a society of 'stay at home' drinkers or worse still encourage more outdoor or 'knacker-drinking'. In my group of friends, about half of us don't smoke but I know that if this law comes in, the whole lot of us will end up staying away from the pub and drinking in someones house instead, which means the pub isn't just loosing all their smoking customers but also their friends.

franco

I think smoking adds to the whole pub atmosphere. Not that I'd call the pubs of today pubs in the true sense, glorified feck1n restraunts most of the time.

Victor

Personally I don't go to pubs anymore. I'm fed up with my clothes smelling of other peoples smoke (should I have to wash my overcoat everytime I go to the pub).

Originally posted by Manach
Against the idea, for it is the Government playing the role of nanny of the state. A pub is a place for relaxation not of instrusive rules.

I think this is the type of argument that Enron put forward and look where that got lots of people. Oh and the US airlines insisted that normal (by international standards) security restricted growth in the airline industry and on internal flights had very lax security regimes up to September 11th.

Victor

Originally posted by Meh
Well?

Do you want to rephrase your question?

The Sweeper

Originally posted by Blade


<insert text of whole post>

This is me agreeing with everything you said, five times over, with knobs on.

Originally posted by Meh
Well I'm browned off that my taxes have to pay for lung cancer treatment for smokers.

Let me reiterate - I'd be interested to see how much of the government's annual health budget is spent on tobacco-related cancer, and how much of it goes on alcohol-related diseases...

AFAIK, Ireland doesn't invest in a smokers version of help groups like alcoholics anonymous, al-a-teen, family support groups, etc. etc. As for the pollution smoke does to other people's airspace, a pissed-up a$$hole in your face is, I believe, somewhat more intrusive.

But anyhow, the point I'm trying to make really isn't 'alcohol is worse than fags', more that 'the government have peculiar priorities'. I feel that the government is trying to jump on the 'cigarettes are evil' bandwagon right now on the way into the election.

I mean, whatever happened to tolerance? How come you'll tolerate one thing being banned by the government, but not something else?


Heading into rant territory now... time to stop

Trojan

Originally posted by Blade

What a pile of $hite, alcohol kills something like 10,000 brain cells per pint, f*cks up your liver and is one of the biggest causes of violent crimes, marital and family break-ups in Ireland. Don't tell me it doesn't affect you and the people around you.

You're talking about long-term symptoms of alcohol abuse which have nothing to do with actually being in a pub.

To say that either the physical and/or social effects of alcohol and cigarettes are similar is just silly.

Al.

Meh

So make up your mind, are you in favour of not banning smoking but enforcing proper air extraction or would you just ban it? Interesting to see how you voted in your own poll when you can't even seem to make up your own mind.

As a matter of fact, I don't think this ban is necessary if the pubs are made have proper ventilation. I just dislike the attitude of smokers like minesajackdaniels who go on about the government taking away their rights. Yeah -- their right to give themselves cancer and have me pay for the treatment. Their right to pollute the air I breathe.

Originally posted by Blade
What a pile of $hite, alcohol kills something like 10,000 brain cells per pint, f*cks up your liver and is one of the biggest causes of violent crimes, marital and family break-ups in Ireland. Don't tell me it doesn't affect you and the people around you.

The majority of drinkers do not have their health negatively affected by drinking. Some studies have even shown that alcohol can be beneficial in small quantities. Kills 10,000 brain cells per pint? Rubbish. Let's see you back this up.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by Meh

The majority of drinkers do not have their health negatively affected by drinking. Some studies have even shown that alcohol can be beneficial in small quantities. Kills 10,000 brain cells per pint? Rubbish. Let's see you back this up.

I don't really think the issue is the difference between smoking and alcohol, but its a valid point.. a well valid point.
How many smokers, come home from work and beat the fúck out of their spouses? How many (now I'm talkin non-drinkers here) smokers go out on the streets at night in the mood for a rumble... and put some poor fúck in hospital, how many kids are scared every Friday night when their drunken Dad comes home to batter them? Don't be so stupid yourself.... BUT as I said this isn't the point.
Point is, it won't happen, and if it does it won't be enforced... why? 'Cos the pubs will lose too many customers and too much business, big time. It's actually laughable. I for one, and all my mates will also avoid the fúckin pub if it's no smoking. There's nothin a smoker enjoys more than a smoke with his/her pint.
Fair enough - passive smokin = not good. How about proper a/c and well ventilated pubs, with a smoking and a non-smoking area - same as a fúckin restaurant? Oh, yeah sorry I forgot, all you fúckin self righteous non-smokers want the whole fúckin lot!

Xterminator

Originally posted by Dr. Loon


I don't really think the issue is the difference between smoking and alcohol, but its a valid point.. a well valid point.
How many smokers, come home from work and beat the fúck out of their spouses? How many (now I'm talkin non-drinkers here) smokers go out on the streets at night in the mood for a rumble... and put some poor fúck in hospital, how many kids are scared every Friday night when their drunken Dad comes home to batter them? Don't be so stupid yourself.... BUT as I said this isn't the point.
.....RANT..........ETC....... I for one, and all my mates will also avoid the fúckin pub if it's no smoking. There's nothin a smoker enjoys more than a smoke with his/her pint.
Fair enough - passive smokin = not good. How about proper a/c and well ventilated pubs, with a smoking and a non-smoking area - same as a fúckin restaurant? Oh, yeah sorry I forgot, all you fúckin self righteous non-smokers want the whole fúckin lot!

Dr Loon

Apart from your distastful characterisation of all the people who would like to breathe clean air as 'self righteous ****ers'
your entire thread is rubbish.

The reason they are planning to outlaw smoking in public places is because passive smoking damages the health of those around the smoker(s).

There is already a law against going home and beating your family, and there is already a law against picking a fight and hospitalising some poor sod on the street.

Although you drew the parallels, between such loutish behaviour and smoking in public, I belive there are similarities. In both cases you do something which you know is bad to those around you, and in both cases you are so selfish you just dont care.

The main weakness in your agruement is that to take alcohol in moderation, does not harm those around you, thus there is no reason to outlaw it. To smoke does.

Finally no-one seems to have mentioned the people who work in these establishments.
While I can choose to go to my pub (and be poisioned) or not, the workes do not have these choices. They are beng poisioned constantly, by the smoker.

X

bonkey

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
Point is, it won't happen, and if it does it won't be enforced... why? 'Cos the pubs will lose too many customers and too much business, big time. It's actually laughable. I for one, and all my mates will also avoid the fúckin pub if it's no smoking.

Somehow I doubt this.

Ireland has a pub culture. It is far cheaper to get a bunch of tinnies, and have a bunch of mates over to your place. Less distance to walk home, and generally no chance of getting into a bit of argy-bargy. And yet somehow we dont do it much - we go out. Why?

There is some attraction in the pub which makes it preferable to staying at home. OK - there's the possibility of meeting new people (even those of the opposite sex), but is this the only reason people go pubbing? Seriously? I dont think so. There is something which is effectively driving Irish culture to revolve around the pub.

You are basically saying that smoking overrides this something - that if you cant smoke, you couldnt possibly go to the pub. I wonder if you would have said the same when they banned smoking in cinemas? I know a lot of people did. I recall so many smokers saying "last time I go to the cinema. I mean, how can i enjoy a movie if I cant light up when I feel like it?".

Funny - didnt seem to put them out of business.

jc

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by Xterminator




Apart from your distastful characterisation of all the people who would like to breathe clean air as 'self righteous ****ers'
your entire thread is rubbish.

Sorry, I got a bit angry there, but I do know too many non-smokers who are a bit self righteous, including people who have given them up. Just annoy me, don't take it personally.

The reason they are planning to outlaw smoking in public places is because passive smoking damages the health of those around the smoker(s).

Hence, I'm saying, air conditioning, smoking areas, and good ventilation in the non-smoking areas! Did you miss that piece?

There is already a law against going home and beating your family, and there is already a law against picking a fight and hospitalising some poor sod on the street.

Doesn't stop it happening though does it?


Bonkey - I'm a fairly heavy smoker, I can manage a meal without smokin, I can watch a movie without smoking, but I could barely take the flight from here to New York without going fúckin insane, I was really, really bad, but that's me! There's others like me who won't be able to last down the pub for a good 6 hour stint without a few smokes, and there's a difference, there's somethin about a smoke which makes it better over a pint or vice versa... if you smoked you'd know what I mean.
Then again there's others who will manage fine, and maybe I might, I can't predict the future... I don't see it being enforced and I still believe that pub owners will lose money if there's an all out ban.

tHE vAGGABOND

I lived in San Francisc where a similar law exists...

People just got used to it. If you want to smoke you have to go to the front door - but you cant smoke in doors.

When I went over first most people I knew smoked, none of them do now...

Most people smoke most, or only smoke while having a pint, banning smoking in pubs - it works...


As for the money question, the money saved - medium term - in health care out weighs any loss in money from ppl giving up smoking. And no one is going to stop going to pubs because they are clean and dont have that manky smoke smell!!!!

Saruman

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels


I mean, alcohol is an injurious substance that when taken regularly in excess damages health, so snap on the ciggies there, alcoholics ruin other peoples lives so that could be construed as 'passive alcoholing', blah blah.

Alcoholics may ruin lives but its not the same, an alcoholic is restricted to either family/friends or in the case of Drink driving, some other individual or small group..
A smoker though inadvertently can ruin the health of every person they come across.. And its a very slow process taking years and years to develop. Alcoholism may seem more brutal but it does not affect as many people.

At the moment you can not go to any pub and avoid a lungful of someone else's tobacco! Which is why I avoid them as much as I can. Sorry to anyone who smokes but the stench alone almost makes me sick.. I went to Vicar street a few months back and when I got home went straight to the shower and threw my clothes in the wash.. I was ready to throw up from the smell and I could even feel it on me..

Many countries do not allow smoking in pubs or anywhere in public even.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND
I lived in San Francisc where a similar law exists...

People just got used to it. If you want to smoke you have to go to the front door - but you cant smoke in doors.

When I went over first most people I knew smoked, none of them do now...

Most people smoke most, or only smoke while having a pint, banning smoking in pubs - it works...


As for the money question, the money saved - medium term - in health care out weighs any loss in money from ppl giving up smoking. And no one is going to stop going to pubs because they are clean and dont have that manky smoke smell!!!!

Hmmmm... interesting. Maybe it could work alright, I can't imagine it going well for myself. We'll have to wait and see.
On that other note, of giving up and saving money. If I gave up smokes, I'd have another habit probably nasty as well, I'd probably drink more, or take to some other drug.... I'm an addictive person.

bonkey

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
There's others like me who won't be able to last down the pub for a good 6 hour stint without a few smokes, and there's a difference, there's somethin about a smoke which makes it better over a pint or vice versa... if you smoked you'd know what I mean.

I do smoke. I used to smoke more than I do now. I (at the time) would have been mostly incapable of lasting 6 hours drinking without a ciggie.

However, all you have to do is get up, and go outside, have your smoke, and go back in. Bit like in the vast majority of companies I know around Dublin, really.

People adapt. And, hey, if pubs lose money, I think thats their lookout. If they are only popular because they're a smoking locaation, thats their problem. Its called business. You takes your chances. Publicans dont complain (much) about drink-driving laws costing them business, although it certainly does. I doubt that they will try arguing (much) that people should get passive-smoking induced lung cancer in order to keep their profits up either.

jc

The Sweeper

Originally posted by bonkey

However, all you have to do is get up, and go outside, have your smoke, and go back in. Bit like in the vast majority of companies I know around Dublin, really.

I now have this image of vast throngs of people outside the fronts of pubs all over Dublin, shivering in the rain with just the cigarette-holding fingertips poking out of their sleeves...

I suppose I'm just feeling hard done by because I like to have a smoke if I'm in the pub. Not necessarily loads, but a couple. It's one of the last places that I can have a ciggie in peace.

And I really, really don't like drunk people for the most part, seriously, but I'd never suggest the government ban alcohol because I understand that people have a right to partake of whatever legal substance lights their bulbs.

I see a lot of people's points here though, because personally I prefer the pub in the afternoon, when it's less smokey and there are more likely to be windows open. I don't like coming back from the pub with clothes that smell like they're covered in the contents of an ashtray either.

Here's a question - how many of you (mainly males I'm assuming) that are posting here about how bad cigarettes are for you, regularly check your testicles for unidentified lumps?

Meh

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels
And I really, really don't like drunk people for the most part, seriously, but I'd never suggest the government ban alcohol because I understand that people have a right to partake of whatever legal substance lights their bulbs.

I think you're setting up a straw man here. I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that cigarettes should be banned completely. The government is talking about introducing more restrictions on smoking. You do have a right to smoke. But that has to be balanced against other people's right to breathe fresh air.

bonkey

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels
I'd never suggest the government ban alcohol because I understand that people have a right to partake of whatever legal substance lights their bulbs.

Yeah - but isnt this like saying "you shouldnt ban it because its legal at the moment" ??? Which wouldnt be a million miles away from saying about other things "you shoudlnt legalise it because its illegal at the moment".

In principle, I think smoking should be banned (even though I smoke myself). In practice, I think thats unworkable, and so I accept that it will remain legal, but fully support any initiative which makes it less intrusive on others (such as banning it in public places). Of course, thats just me, and slightly off-topic

jc

The Sweeper

Originally posted by Meh

I think you're setting up a straw man here. I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that cigarettes should be banned completely. The government is talking about introducing more restrictions on smoking. You do have a right to smoke. But that has to be balanced against other people's right to breathe fresh air.

Right, time for selfish post.

I like smoking in the pub. I don't like smoking in the following places:

outside
in the rain
in the snow
in generally inclement weather conditions
while hiding in toilets
while in bed

All of the above is the basis of my personal opinion, which is "the government shouldn't ban smoking in the pub".

Whatever about splitting pubs into smoking and non-smoking areas as they do with restaurants, (which I think would be a fab idea - most pubs have the sort of layout which would lend itself to such segregation anyhow), what's important to me is that I can still have a smoke while I have a drink.

What's important to you is that you can breathe fresh air while you have a drink.

(Would someone please design a "because I fúcking feel like it"
card that would be appropriate in these situations??)

It's probably easier if we agree to disagree on this one and wait for the outcome from the powers that be. If your side win, I can normally be found in the area of boards.ie if you want to gloat.

Dr. Loon

For my opinions on smoking I recommend you refer to Mr. Denis Leary - No quotes are popping to mind at the moment - the smoke must be affecting me! :rolleyes: but he knows the way things should be done, plus, he's hilarious.
We'll all just wait and see...

Check this;
http://www.online.ie/news/irish_examiner/viewer.adp?article=1650074

logic1

Hopefully smoking will be banned in pubs. I hate everything about cigarettes from their disgusting smell to the horrible ashes that get everyplace to the yellow fingers they cause and the cancer they kill with.

I couldn't be happier if cigarette companies were all put out of buisness.

.logic.

Stephen

Smoking is a filthy habit. Smokers have no right to pollute my air. I don't pour my drink down their throats.

end of story.

seamus

You're forgetting that there already are restrictions on drinking. You can't drink in public places, ie. parks, Gov. buildings etc. In fact you're pretty much only allowed drink in pubs and private houses. Why shouldn't smoking have restrictions put on it? You enjoy smoking with your pint? Go stand outside the door while you have it. How many of your friends have you seen waving the smoke away from their faces, or blowing it away from them when you blatantly puff it into their face? Do you not care? Are you that selfish? [/rant]

The Sweeper

Originally posted by seamus
You're forgetting that there already are restrictions on drinking.

No, I'm not.

You can't drink in public places, ie. parks, Gov. buildings etc.

You can't smoke on trains, planes, in most official buildings, etc.

In fact you're pretty much only allowed drink in pubs and private houses.

And restaurants, clubs, special function rooms - the permission to drink in various places is a "licensing" issue - there's no such thing as being able to get a smoking license for a special occasion.

Why shouldn't smoking have restrictions put on it?

It already has.

You enjoy smoking with your pint?

Already stated.

Go stand outside the door while you have it.

I have a better idea. Why don't you go and have your pint in the rain.

How many of your friends have you seen waving the smoke away from their faces,

Many of them smoke.

...or blowing it away from them when you blatantly puff it into their face?

I don't.

Do you not care?

Ref earlier post about 'agreeing to disagree'.

Are you that selfish?

Yes.

Sure look at the poll results, the non-smokers are winning. This puts a new slant on it - based on boards.ie, more people want smoking banned in pubs than not.

Lets see how much attention our government pays to the non-smokers, shall we?


[/rant response]

ayatollah

piss off ye

and let us kill ourselves in peace!!!!

daftbegger

I would like to see both of them banned, but I'm a fascist git.

Dustaz

A couple of things.

This is a bloody stupid idea. Personally i doubt we'll see it in the next 5 years. Even if it is introduced, it will probably be largely ignored simply because of the vast amount of people who still smoke.

Originally posted by Blade


I don't think it's right to discriminate 'completely' against smokers because most of todays smokers got addicted when they were young and foolish and at a time when it was generally acceptable in society to smoke. Of course we have to move on and change that but an all out ban on smoking in a pub is IMO unfair to smokers in an environment where smoking and drinking always went hand in hand. I was expecting the next step to be 'no smoking at the bar' and designated smoking areas in pubs and of course proper smoke extraction. This IMO would be a much better idea.

All non smokers please read this. thanks.



I pay EUR5 for a pack of ciggarrettes. about 4 of that is tax. please hush about the 'taxpayers' money being used to treat smoking related diseases. You dont moan about alcohol or cars in this fashion.


By all means, ban the sale of cigarrettes outright. Untill then leave me alone:)

Waylander

I think this is a ridiculous idea. Anyone who drinks in The Orchard in Rathfarnham will know that they have a non smoking section. It is a waste of space because it is usually empty, even aroung christmas it does not get very crowded, although the rest of the pub is packed.

I think that the good air conditioning was a much better idea, and the vast majority of pubs in the greater Dublin area could easily afford it.

ayatollah

click here

ayatollah

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by seamus
You're forgetting that there already are restrictions on drinking. You can't drink in public places, ie. parks, Gov. buildings etc. In fact you're pretty much only allowed drink in pubs and private houses. Why shouldn't smoking have restrictions put on it? You enjoy smoking with your pint? Go stand outside the door while you have it. How many of your friends have you seen waving the smoke away from their faces, or blowing it away from them when you blatantly puff it into their face? Do you not care? Are you that selfish? [/rant]

You can't drink in public places my árse!! Have you even seen this enforced properly? Sure, Buildings and shít, parks... no way. There's plenty of other ways in which the world and humans are polluted mate.... you're just another one of these fúckin major anti-smoker gits.....

Walk through town, that'll mess the aul lungs up.
Better yet, drive a car through town, that way you can pollute the city and humans walking through it.
Let some farmer dump slurry into our rivers and fúck up the water
Let's fúckin get some nuclear power stations goin and then we can really wreck the place and people some more.
Let's a group of us get drunk out of our minds and beat the crap outta some poor chap in town.
All I'm tryin to get across here is, there's plenty of worse things, and ways of being polluted than smoking.
I don't blow smoke into my friends faces, and try to keep it out of their way when I am smoking. You seem to think that all smokers are ignorant people!?!?! You might understand better if you smoked.... I like enjoying my life, so why don't you go and try and find a place on this messed up earth that won't pollute your body in some form!? Do nothing that's enjoyable... stop drinking, stop smoking, don't take drugs, become a vegetarian.... ****in move to some remote part of the world and do NOTHING!!

Trojan

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

You can't drink in public places my árse!! Have you even seen this enforced properly?

Yep. We have this people called Gardai, they wear navy or shiny yellow coats sometimes. And before you start spouting about them not enforcing this law, they enforce it just as much as they enforce other laws. Unfortunately that's an endemic problem with the Gardai which we really shouldnt get into on this thread.

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

Sure, Buildings and shít, parks... no way. There's plenty of other ways in which the world and humans are polluted mate.... you're just another one of these fúckin major anti-smoker gits.....

Oh my, what anger you have contained within yourself. Maybe you better have a smoke and relax, this could get difficult when your arguments are destroyed by careful application of logic (not logic1 mind you).

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

Walk through town, that'll mess the aul lungs up.
Better yet, drive a car through town, that way you can pollute the city and humans walking through it.

Well, actually we already have laws in place to reduce this pollution. We test vehicles over 3 years old, we sell smokeless fuels, we stop people smoking in public, etc.

Oh, maybe not that last one, I made a boo boo. But all the rest are starting to make a difference.

I don't know where you're from, but perhaps you'll recall the infamous "smog" in Dublin during the 80s...

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

Let some farmer dump slurry into our rivers and fúck up the water
Let's fúckin get some nuclear power stations goin and then we can really wreck the place and people some more.

What wonderful suggestions. I hope someone is taking notes.

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

Let's a group of us get drunk out of our minds and beat the crap outta some poor chap in town.

Well if you're on for the first part of that, we're in Messrs around 8ish tonight. And we can always find some poor unfortunate if you really need to express your anger in that way, not that we'll condone it mind you.

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

All I'm tryin to get across here is, there's plenty of worse things, and ways of being polluted than smoking.

I can think of far worse ways of dying than being shot.

But I'd still be dead.

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

I don't blow smoke into my friends faces, and try to keep it out of their way when I am smoking.

That is considerate of you (there's no sarcasm there, don't bother looking).

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

You seem to think that all smokers are ignorant people!?!?!

No, how could we?

You've really helped clarify matters, thanks!

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

You might understand better if you smoked....

Not everyone who's replying to you is a non-smoker....

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

I like enjoying my life,

That's nice, but you really lose it when you start to ....

Originally posted by Dr. Loon

so why don't you go and try and find a place on this messed up earth that won't pollute your body in some form!? Do nothing that's enjoyable... stop drinking, stop smoking, don't take drugs, become a vegetarian.... ****in move to some remote part of the world and do NOTHING!!

.... rant like that. It's really very unbecoming.

Cheers,
Al.

Victor

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
How about proper a/c and well ventilated pubs, with a smoking and a non-smoking area

Generally this is not practical, as the air would have a 0% recycle rate as opposed to a 90% recycle rate in say a shop. As regards smoking areas, I doubt it would be practical, due to the denial factor with so many smokers, especially when drunk. Just to make the point, I was out for a walk one evening when I could smell cigarette smoke - the smoker was sitting down 50 metres away - that is how much cigarettes smell.

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
Oh, yeah sorry I forgot, all you fúckin self righteous non-smokers want the whole fúckin lot!

And what of the self-righteous smokers, who insist on, say, blowing smoke in you face in the cinema foyer "because they can"? There is a two-thirds majority of non-smokers among adults.

Victor

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
I don't see it being enforced and I still believe that pub owners will lose money if there's an all out ban.

And since when are peoples sympathies in line with the owners of pubs?

bonkey

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
you're just another one of these fúckin major anti-smoker gits.....

You know, I hope that with an attitude like that, you seriously oppose any change in any law in this country.

Your basic argument is this :

1) I am allowed to smoke. It is legal.
2) Because it is currently legal, it is my inalienable right to smoke.
3) Anyone who proposes otherwise is an insensitive, rights-stomping nazi.

Yes - good logic.
Now, take any law change. Modify statement 1, and the end of statement 2 to match the new subject. Look - perfectly logical reasoning all over again.

Also, for reference, I would suggest that all those people who are saying "passive smoking isnt bad compared to air-pollution in Dublin" should go and actually study pollution levels a little bit, because quite frankly you havent a bog what you're talking about.

The relative toxicity of second-hand cigarette smoke is far higher than the air pollution in Dublin, and in the huge majority of pubs will exist in vastly higher concentrations.

jc

Victor

Originally posted by Dr. Loon
Check this; http://www.online.ie/news/irish_examiner/viewer.adp?article=1650074

"Already 50 barworkers are suing their bosses in the first smoking-related injury claim of its kind."

And this isn't going to cost publicans money?