ESAT Fusion lowers cost of internet access

pete

Apologies if this has been posted already...

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0128/breaking41.htm

By Luke Cassidy Last updated: 28-01-02, 16:14

Esat Fusion has announced it is to cut its home Internet access rates by up to 20 per cent.

The company says the new rates will be made available immediately to the company's 150,000 residential telephone users.

To avail of the offer, customers will need to log on to the internet through the company's portals, iol.ie and oceanfree.net.

Esat says customers will now be able to access the Internet for four cent per minute during the day and one cent per minute at evenings and weekends.

Eircom, Esat's main rival in the internet service provision market, charges 1.27 cent for off-peak access and 5.08 cents for daytime use.

Chief executive Derek Kickham said the offer "will kick start a stagnant market which is good news for consumers, 98 per cent of whom pay for their internet access by the minute,"

Typedef

Here's to Ryanair in telecoms.

Fooger

is this even possible

I mean doesn’t this all sound like SNL/IOL-Nolimits all over again

dahamsta

[DELETED]

dahamsta

[DELETED]

hmmm

Originally posted by dahamsta
http://www.enn.ie/news.html?code=5856466

Kickham's comments get more laughable - and more scary - by the minute. I know he's not dumb, so he obviously thinks we are.

adam

Why exactly are his comments "laughable"? I see a perfectly reasonable statement, preceeded by a discount on internet access costs for those using Esat. I'm completely lost at the point of your abuse here, and would applaude Esat for reducing costs of internet access.

Roy

dahamsta

[DELETED]

aidan_dunne

As one of the SNL refugees (i.e. now limited to 75 hours per month instead of unlimited off-peak access) I would be very dubious about this offer. Maybe it's just because I was stung once before by this shower of incompetent gobs**tes but I wouldn't switch my voice service over to them just to get this "discount". Why? Because I wouldn't be surprised if in six-months time, after signing up lots of new voice customers on the back of this offer, they turn around and say, "Sorry folks, the show's over. We can't sustain these losses anymore due to Eircom's pricing.... blah.... blah.... blah," ala SNL.

Don't be taken in by this, folks. They'll only sting you too.

peterd

in six-months time... Sorry folks, the show's over.

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I'd say at least you would get 6 months @ 20% less, no ? That works out at about €30/month for me. 30x6=180 == 1 month free internet! (Does it cost anything to change over?)

hmmm

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Don't be taken in by this, folks. They'll only sting you too.

Sting? How were you stung by SNL?? I remember paying £20 quid a month for a service that was probably costing Esat a large multiple of this. Did you have to install the software for another ISP and pay by the minute? My god what an incredible struggle that must have been. Fill me in on exactly how Esat "took you in", I'm dying to hear.

JTMan

quote:

---

Originally posted by peterd
(Does it cost anything to change over?)

---

No Nothing. Just give them a call.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Don't be taken in by this, folks. They'll only sting you too.

---

what a load of crap. They wont sting you. Ever know a telco in Ireland to RAISE local voice rates in the last few years? It wont happen. Esat are not out to sting you.

dahamsta

I'm bowing out of this thread, because I have a chip on my shoulder about Esat at the moment, one that I feel is entirely justified, but one that is muddying the water between me as the PRO of IrelandOffline and me as a consumer and a businessman. Apologies for my vehemence.

adam

chernobyl

ah, the old "Letter of Death", which lied/patronised the users of No Limits.

But what ppl dont remember is that Esat have been pro internet users from the beginning, and have pushed the market as far as it can go, the even went beyond that and accepted looses (No Limits) in the hope they would get a big market share when FRAICO was introduced.

€ircoms response to Esat when they tried to introduce innovation was "no cant be done in Ireland", so ultimatley €ircom are responsible for everything and also a "Tech Dumb" government.

In reflection if Esat has just told the truth in the "LOD" to the effect "Unfortunatley customer €ircoms interconnection fees are far too high to sustain you as a customer, or the No Limits product as a whole, we accepted our looses in the hope of the market moving foward but "obstacles" are always in our way, so we have to let you go", then €ircom are in the hotspot.

Also that twit Pat Kenny did not help...shh, defending €ircom.

Delphi91

Speaking as one of the Esat2000, I am amazed at the attitude of some people to the SNL debacle.

I don't hold a grudge over what happened. I wasn't too pleased with the way it was handled, but lets be fair here, every company is in business to make money. If you have a loss making service, you do what you can to minimise the loss.

I didn't agree at the time with the way that 2000 people were singled out to take a fall - from a PR point of view, it was a disaster.

However, you have to give ESAT their due - they're making some effort to lower net access charges. Chorus were an option for me but they've stopped supplying Powernet. The only other company who COULD do it are pulling a Liam Lawlor attitude.

I have no problem signing over to Esat to get cheaper access. 99% of my phone bill is Internet, so whatever I can save, I will. I'd prefer if my rental charges were going to Esat and not Eircom, but for the time being I'm stuck.

I'll go with however gives me the best deal and at the moment it looks like Esat.

Mike

Typedef

Don't get me wrong.
I'm moving out this month or next month := I will need internet access, so I can troll here(very important) therefore I would not get a 75 hour acess deal like I have now, and rather than pay eircom prices, I'm more than amenable to allowing esat charge me less.

Gawd bless Esat and all who sail in her!

Keeks

What ppl should remeber is that you have to have an Esat telephone account so there are hidden charges there somewhere

From the Website:

You just need to be an Esat Fusion home phone customer to qualify for these great Internet access rates.

Fergus

Is Esat offering a circle-of-friends type 10% discount on this rate? Assuming anyone using the normal 1891 is applying this already, the Esat reduction may be only half what it seems.

aidan_dunne

Sorry if people took me up wrong on what I meant when I said about getting "stung". I still think that what Esat did with the whole SNL thing was wrong and they should have been honest with people about making a loss and not try to blame the customer's "over-usage". That was just blatantly wrong and the completely wrong way to have handled the whole thing.

It's just that since the SNL cut-off debacle, I've become really cynical and suspicious about any offer from any teleco, whether it be Esat, Eircom or whoever. I just don't trust any of them anymore. Call it paranoia, pessimism, holding grudges or whatever, but I've become the type of person who just thinks that there is something suspicious about every "special" offer from the telecos nowadays; that there is something behind it.

Given the whole argument about how Esat was making a loss on SNL, I can't understand how they can now turn around and make these reductions. They were making a loss on SNL so surely they will also end up making a loss, or at least a lot less profit, on these reduced call costs. Until Eircom is brought into line by the ODTR regarding charges to other operators, I just can't see how any other teleco can manage to offer significant reductions in call charges. That's why I think Esat will be forced to scrap these reductions after a while unless Eircom changes it's pricing towards other operators, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

So, I apologise for saying how people would be "stung" by this offer. I guess I still have a lot of anger towards Esat over the SNL debacle, which may have made me put this point across in a bad way. What I was trying to say was the above, how I don't think this offer is really feasible in the long term and will be withdrawn after a while unless Eircom's pricing policy towards the other telecos changes.

dahamsta

Well said Aidan. Although I can't speak for whether or not Esat's rates are viable, you summed up my sentiments exactly. It's probably not fair to Esat to simply knock them out of hand, however speaking personally I feel that Kickham's comments are intentionally misleading, and depressingly disingenuous. I honestly find them an insult to my intelligence.

adam

Lemming

Originally posted by Typedef
Gawd bless Esat and all who sail in her!

You've been listening to the Divine Comedy haven't you typeDef

On a more serious note .... I'd be inclined to side with aiden and dahamsta on this one. Although not one of the Esat2000 (god bless DNA.IE/UTV-Internet), I have to question how Esat couldn't afford those 2000 people, when they potentially have tens of thousands more who may decide to take Esat up on this cheaper-rate offer.

Unless Esat are trying to get more converts from Eircom by taking a short-term loss??

I dunno

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by Lemming


You've been listening to the Divine Comedy haven't you typeDef

On a more serious note .... I'd be inclined to side with aiden and dahamsta on this one. Although not one of the Esat2000 (god bless DNA.IE/UTV-Internet), I have to question how Esat couldn't afford those 2000 people, when they potentially have tens of thousands more who may decide to take Esat up on this cheaper-rate offer.

Unless Esat are trying to get more converts from Eircom by taking a short-term loss??

I dunno

This is my point. They thought that by launching SNL they would only suffer short-term loss before Eircom would act "reasonably" and start to play fairly in the market. However, they didn't realise how stubborn Eircom would be in trying to maintain their monopoly and what Esat hoped would be a short-term lossmaker with SNL, leading to fullscale FRIACO within a year or so, turned into a major loss maker with no sign of any movement by Eircom.

Now, you would think that Esat would have learned all this by now after the SNL debacle but it looks to me that they are about to make exactly the same mistakes all over again. And, for any of the Esat 2000 or the rest of us who've had our "unlimited" off-peak access cut back to 75 hours, this is a major slap in all our faces. They couldn't maintain the loss they were making on SNL but now they are going to do this? I have to say that I for one was deeply insulted when I read about this offer. But, as I said, I reckon this is going ot be a case of Esat making the same mistakes again, having to withdraw the offer and then anyone who still believes that Esat is even halfway competent will then see how incompetent they actually are.

R_Tribesman

okok ...tomorrow i will ring them and tell them im want to apply for the discoutns and whatever ...but i will give them loads on the phone just to see what they will say - like , "whats to say in a few months u wont back out of this 1 like u did with no limits

, the even went beyond that and accepted looses (No Limits) in the hope they would get a big market

in reply to this .. didnt they just back out, accept the losses because the market was bigger and was ready to make esat some money when they closed SNL??

I don't hold a grudge over what happened. I wasn't too pleased with the way it was handled, but lets be fair here, every company is in business to make money. If you have a loss making service, you do what you can to minimise the loss.

in reply to this!!... u dont hold a grudge over what happened becasue your not left paying them by the minute!


N_MC_C@hotmail.com,
niall.

TomF

I was also a SNL customer, and was booted off for some other reason than "too much" use, or at least I think so, because we never had more than 32 hours a month use.

After being booted off, I subscribed to the IOL Gold service at a reduced price for the year because I had been booted off SNL, and by using the 1-891-121-121 number to dial up Internet access, I think I was being charged 1p a minute off-peak, and 4p or something like that on-peak, but the charges were levied by Eircom because the 1-891 number was theirs.

I have had Esat for all other calls for several years, I think.

What's the difference, then? Is it that it is costing 1 cent a minute instead of 1.27 cents a minute? Hmm, I guess that is a better deal.

Xian

ESAT can afford to do this because it remains a per-minute service. If you see the graphs for costs vs revenue for SNL, revenue remains flat while costs, without a flat rate wholesale interconnect rate, rise at a 45 degree angle. Pretty soon you're making a loss. As the service is still pay-per-minute they've obviously worked out a lower margin that they can operate the service on while still making a profit (cost and revenue moving in the same direction) while stealing customers from €ircom.

nahdoic

Originally posted by Xian
ESAT can afford to do this because it remains a per-minute service

Exactly. It's so obvious. I can't believe someone didn't say this earlier.

NeilF

Around the time of the Esat 2000 some people noted that £20 bought Esat approximately 75 hours of off-peak access from Eircom at the wholesale rate. This would mean Esat pay Eircom about .55 cent per minute. I would expect Esat to have lower costs than Eircom so that probably explains why they are able to make the reduction.

That said I agree with adam's (personal) comments about Derek Kickham's remarks. It has very little to do with improving the lot of Internet users in Ireland. We need unmetered access and broadband. This development is neither. I think it more a case of Esat wanting to take some of the per minute revenue Eircom currently make. For the consumer the reduced charges are the main attraction of switching.

I'm not too sure about how the telcos charge each other so do point out any errors Suppose I use Oceanfree.net, an Esat ISP. If my phone carrier is Eircom am I right to think Esat only make money on the link from oceanfree.net to Eircom's network? But if my phone carrier is Esat then Eircom only get paid for the local call around their network, which is .55 cent, and Esat keep the rest?

Typedef

Circle of friends. bah, why'm I not surprised.

Oh wait I remember it's because I was 'outside the spirit' of nolimits.

This is a common mistake, similar to when scientists say infinte, but mean 75, it's called nolimits inverse aphasic psychosis and causes people to misread the worlds '75 hours' as 'nolimits'.

"What he said, but more of it.... and down with Goldstein

flamegrill

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
As one of the SNL refugees (i.e. now limited to 75 hours per month instead of unlimited off-peak access) I would be very dubious about this offer. Maybe it's just because I was stung once before by this shower of incompetent gobs**tes but I wouldn't switch my voice service over to them just to get this "discount". Why? Because I wouldn't be surprised if in six-months time, after signing up lots of new voice customers on the back of this offer, they turn around and say, "Sorry folks, the show's over. We can't sustain these losses anymore due to Eircom's pricing.... blah.... blah.... blah," ala SNL.

Don't be taken in by this, folks. They'll only sting you too.

Just one question for ya mate, do you still actually stick close to the 75 hour limit? if so why? i know several lil internet junkies that are back using it to its maximum.

They stopped monitoring it late in the summer afaik.

Regards,
Paul

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by flamegrill


Just one question for ya mate, do you still actually stick close to the 75 hour limit? if so why? i know several lil internet junkies that are back using it to its maximum.

They stopped monitoring it late in the summer afaik.

Regards,
Paul

Yep. I downloaded a little internet timer thing and I make sure I stick religiously to the 75 hour rule. In fact, I stay a good bit below it just to make sure. But, the ironic thing is that I never exceeded 75 hours per month in the first place and I still got "the letter". This proves that the whole cut-off thing where anybody using it above 75 hours a month was cut off was bulls**t. However, I'm not going to take any chances with Esat and that's why I stay below 75 hours. That way, also, I can't give them an excuse to try and cut me off in the future for "over-usage", even though they shouldn't have tried to cut me off in the first place anyway.

As for not monitoring it since late summer, are you sure about this? I'd love to hear more details if anyone else has them because something tells me that the second I went over 75 hours the bast**ds would probably try and cut me off SNL. I'd love to know if this true so any more details would be appreciated.

Ronan|Raven

One of my mates who used it even as much as me neevr got kicked off during the whole removal of " abusive " users.He still uses it all Weekend and every evening when he gets a chance.

byte

Where did you get the timer thing, Aiden? I have exceeded my stated dose of 75 hours few times but not by much and not too often. And who said that there was a 75 hr limit? Esat never told me.

Ruu_Old

Thats true, i never heard of this 75 hr rule, Esat certainly didnt announce it, or give me the option of it. The thing that angers most ppl including myself was the manner Esat acted to cut users off.

sceptre

Originally posted by irishbyte
Where did you get the timer thing, Aiden? I have exceeded my stated dose of 75 hours few times but not by much and not too often. And who said that there was a 75 hr limit? Esat never told me.

The "75 hour limit" was something that someone in customer service thought up - then the other customer service reps ran with it. It was never official and still isn't. If you feel like using it as a rough guide of reasonable usage, so be it (personally I'm not going to say how many hours I use it - who know who reads here)

On the timer, I'd recommend No Frills Timer. It's freeware under GNU license. Really small when minimised - I've it slotted into the bottom-right of my screen. You can set it up for different connections so it's also good for monitoring peak use - and you can reset it whenever you want, perhaps alongside your phone billing dates like me

Get it at
http://users.bigpond.net.au/nmaher/

aidan_dunne

Yep, No Frills Timer is the one I use. Very nifty little piece of software. Download it and don't give Esat an excuse to try and cut you off.

As for the 75 hour thing, I rang Esat customer support when I got "the letter" and gave them absolute hell about it. That's when the customer support rep said to me, "Okay, tell you what. If you promise to stay below 75 hours a month, I won't cut you off." I grudgingly accepted, even though I knew I was below 75 hours every month before that anyway.

I have to say that the idea that one customer support rep came up with the 75 hour idea (probably because he was getting hell from an irate customer as well and just wanted to get rid of them off the phone) and the rest of them then copying it proves that Esat haven't a clue and nobody seems to know what the hell is going on in this very disorganised company. I mean, for Christ's sake, if any other company operated like this (with perhaps the exception of Eircom, who are a rule unto themselves anyway!) they'd go down the pi$$er in six months!

byte

Thanks for timer info. No Frills Timer is pretty good. I see it logs too