Genetically Modified Organisms

Typedef

Do you believe the use of genetically modified organisms is a wise step. Could the use of such organisms be a risk to human health. In the UK such organisms or foods derived from such organisms must be labled as such.
Ireland's position
http://staffweb.itsligo.ie/staff/bcrowe/bill/styles/frames/gmos/gmos&env.htm

We know that viruses can transfer genes from one organism to another. Advantageous genes added to our domestic animals or crop plants may be transferred in this way to their competitors, or by them crossbreeding with closely related species, making them even greater potential dangers

Is it right to crate an 'animal' or higher mamal a pig for example, (an organism that is already genetically speaking quite close to humans) that we homo sapiens may use for the harvesting of human organs? Would it be amoral for example to create a 'cut-down' version of a human without a brain, or self-awarness, perhaps a creature genetically similar to a 'lower primate' for harvesting human organs? If not is it amoral to test vaccines and drugs on 'higher primates'?

EU Directive http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l21157.htm
The directive the government has legislated under.

EU Directive
Warning Eurobabel
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1994/en_394D0385.html

I am of the opinion that given enough time a 'Frankenstein' will come to fruition if the re-engineering of organisms and their subsequent release into the ecological system continues especially with the rate of development of such organisms increasing exponentially.

azezil

Genetic engineering is a very sensitive issue, but i believe it is a step which is necessary for the further development of human kind.

Genetic engineering will allow doctors to prevent birth defects in the womb, grow limbs for those who may have lost them in an accident. It will undoubtedly lead to many changes is our social structure and may indeed spawn whole new life forms. The issue of when does life begin and what is the definition of life will undoubtedly have to be addressed in greater detail.

I'm an optimist, although i know there will be atrocities, I believe the possible gains far outweigh the risks.

Typedef

I hear what you are saying azezil, ostensibly I agree. I feel uneasy with the idea of GMO's being given access to the ecological system. These organisms can never truly be controlled and genes humans append or alter in species x may have vastly different consequences on symbotic species of gmo x, or may create super-predators of one nature or another that could seriously undermine the ecological system as a whole. Some species may become overtly, unnaturally and artifically proliferic due to more food or less predators because of a gmo or because of the impact of a gmo to the food chain. I'm not trying to be a doomsdayer, but this is the entire concept of Frankenstein.

Also I believe it amoral to create organisms for the purpose of harvesting human organs, moreover if such technology did become available what kind of impact would it have on human society, would humans in effect become a master race. A race of genetically superior (by design) organisms and therefore wholly right and endowed with the ability to manufacture organisms and reengineer the environment to service us, at a genetic level?

azezil

As much as i care for the environment, plants and animals there in, I think it rather inevitable that one day they will be all gone.
Genetics will allow us live longer, maybe longer than we should! but i think its our right as a superior species to do whatever necessary to ensure our survival. By that I mean if genetic manipulation will allow us an easier way of life, one where children no longer have to suffer the because of genetic defects, a world free from desease, it's worth doing.

As for the introduction of alien species into an environment that isn't ready for them, that would be unfortunate, we can only hope that sufficient care is taken to ensure this does not happen.
On the flip side genetics’ may allow species which are in danger of becoming extinct to live on... too repair the damage caused by our interference.

The bible says God made us in his own image, I think it inevitable therefore that we should endeavour to mimic him and become the creators ourselves.

(I'm not religious, just threw that in to see what kind of response it evokes )

Typedef

As much as i care for the environment, plants and animals there in, I think it rather inevitable that one day they will be all gone.

I'm not flaming you azezil, but what makes you think that one day the earth will be, a big wasteland or like Trantor a planetary city from foundation? Strange.

Genetics will allow us live longer, maybe longer than we should! but i think its our right as a superior species to do whatever necessary to ensure our survival. By that I mean if genetic manipulation will allow us an easier way of life, one where children no longer have to suffer the because of genetic defects, a world free from desease, it's worth doing.

Of course that is the big debate, do the benefits outweigh the risks, and can humans really answer the question before making mistakes and learning from them? Can humans afford to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes?

As for the introduction of alien species into an environment that isn't ready for them, that would be unfortunate, we can only hope that sufficient care is taken to ensure this does not happen.

Hmm, I would take example of the large marsupials that used to live in South America, there used to be gigantic cousins of the kangaroos in South America, but these species were killed off literally by feline and canine species which crossed from Eurasia over the then bridged Bering Strait into Alaska and gradually filtered down to South America, eventually to supplant the marsupials that were the dominant mamals at the time. Here is my what if, what if we humans are the marsupials in this case and a Frankenstein of our own creation supplants us? Much the same concept applies to aliens, humans may encounter non terran lifeforms if humans ever devise a feasable way to traverse great distances of interstellar space, we, humans, may meet a race so pathogenically violent and advanced that total anhilliation, a total war against our species allays our race and destroys all terran life. It may sound a bit far fetched, but a society that thinks in a radically different way, that has a radically different brain might view such genocide as the 'natural order'.

I think genetic manipulation is extremely desireable in some instances, ie medical research, longevity negating congenital defects, but where I think it is not really warranted or properly tested is in the field of argiculture. Once a crop of gmo's comes into cantact with the environment at large, it becomes part of it. My major gripe with this is that in ordinary circumstances evolution and genetic change takes millions of years, but here come the humans, we are going to do it in years, not eons, and what will happen if and when it goes wrong? How bad will it be, pithe or the beginning of the anhillation if the human race? No way to know until it happens it would seem, that position seems scary, never mind untenable.

azezil

Well am, not sure why i said that now hmmm I'll think about it n get back to ya!

azezil

Ok thought about it:

With our ever-changing world, deforestation, pollution and general human nastiness, flora and fauna are being put under ever increasing level of stress. It is only by adapting that they can possibly survive but the rate at which we are changing the environment may be too fast for them to cope and thus die out?

Typedef

Originally posted by azezil
It is only by adapting that they can possibly survive but the rate at which we are changing the environment may be too fast for them to cope and thus die out?

True, and whatever about the morality or amorality of genetic engineering of our own species, I think it is a damning indictement of our species that people consider the only salvation for some of the other 'residents' of this planet lies in the human re-engineering them to cope with the impact of humans. Says it all really.

Maybe we are moving towards a new era of eugenics and genetics, where society and ecology is like that film Gattaca, valid and invalid based on your modified inheritence. I read an Asimov short story about the last 'humanoid' robots that advocated the supplantation of the 'evolved' flora and fauna for miniturised robotic versions of the same (but for sinister purposes), perhaps as you intimate the only way for species to survive will be in 'our' image.

scuzzy

So, what happens if GE allows humans to live to hundreds, even thousands of years, the place would be kinda crowded...
I also think that the world would become an incredibly boring place. There would be no new faces for quite a while, and after a while, life would become quite monotonous and repetitive.
However, the ability to live for millennia could be useful if one was to get off this planet.

Typedef

Stephen Hawking makes a good case for the virtues of genetic engineering
http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,545653,00.html of course he advocates genetic engineering so that humans may compete with sentient machines, much as azezil advocates genetic engineering so that other creatures that share this planet may continue to proliferate in the face of man-made obstructions