Are Eircom Lying to Me? (like... duh!)

DeVore

Ok, I requested a line from Eircom as I was assured I was on the ADSL trial.

Since I bought into their whole "Hi Speed Vision" I only have ISDN in the flat. SO... I get a PSTN line installed.

I even spend the day at home to be sure that I can tell the guy I dont want a split line or anything weird as its going to be upgraded to ADSL.

The engineer who installs it has no idea that Eircom are rolling out ADSL or that they are even trialling it... but he's a nice bloke
so he agrees to do the only quality test he knows about on the line.

He rings a bloke in the computer section and has him do an "IVR" test (as far as I recall) on the line... apparently the line is perfect.

The engineer isnt surprised because he tells me the box on the telegraph poll outside my window is brand new... the line is brand new and I live about 500 metres from Beggars Bush Exchange.

I'm happy. Then I ring the ADSL installation people, and they tell me I'm too late for the trials... we argue... I "win" the argument but apparently (and very quickly) the line fails the test and I'm off the trial...

What I want to know is
a. What is an IVR test?
b. What is the test which they do for ADSL and is it somehow "special" and different from a standard line test.

DeV.

Fergus

"IVR" I'd guess is a current/voltage/resistance test.. I being the electronics symbol for current, V voltage, R resistance. Probably just checking for ground faults, shorts, opens, leakage, etc.

Possibly ADSL also requires testing for frequency response in the bandwidth required (up to 1 or 2 Mhz I think) and maybe the noise level / Signal-to-Noise ratio.

dahamsta

a. What is an IVR test?

I don't know, but there are people here that do. Perhaps they could pop their heads out of their shells for a moment to tell us, or email me with the info please?

b. What is the test which they do for ADSL and is it somehow "special" and different from a standard line test.

I've been told unofficially that there is no realtime test. Lines are evaluated when they are installed, and this is logged by the engineer. I have no evidence to back this up however.

adam

The Cigarette Smoking Man

a: Interactive Voice Response

The Clown Man

AFAIK if you are on the line at the time the test is done it can negatively affect the test. That could have been it but in all fairness what I think you got is the "£ircom Fob"

- when a customer rings in with a legitamate query, do not answer the query, tell them it never existed, make up something that sounds technical like "The NARF issue" and why its going to cost them £99 for nothing, then proceed to spew out random bullshít in order to get the now angry customer to hang up the phone. If this takes longer than 6 seconds cut off the line with an "I'll transfer you over to the <bullshít> section - they'll know what to do."

I actually had this problem myself Dev, but being an experienced unhappy customer I rang the engineers themselves and got them to sort it all out (make sure they are there the next day etc. - the 4 weeks installation time is part of the aforementioned "Fob").

However, the engineer couldn't find a spare line in the locality so he had to go and install one along the telegraph poles. In the meantime I was contsantly ringing I-Stream to make sure the trials were still available (I didn't quite trust the rep. who said it would be open for the next few weeks) and, surely enough, they were stopped the day the guy was finishing, so I went outside and told the guy to get down from the pole and go home, thus saving me £99 for the new line.

Thats the other thing, they are now going to try and charge you £99 for the installation of isdn again. Either that or the installation of the new PSTN line.

Either way, they are going to try to charge you £99 so be ready. If you get onto a teamleader or boss or something they might cancel the charge if you shout enough and try to sound scary. Luckily for us, they are fairly easily scared.

And watch out for the "Fob."

Best of luck.

Clown

Mountjoy Mugger

One of the tests they carry out is loosely called the "whoosh" test.

See http://www.btofaq.net/articles/intro.html for BTO's xplanation of it. Unfortunately, there are three other tests that BT carry out - not sure if our crowd do them as well...

Hope this of some assistance, Adam.

DeVore

They already tried the "you'll have to pay for the line" trick on me.
I can be particularly scary when I need to be so they will be refunding that cash...

I'm well experienced with the £ircom Fob...

DeV.

Ruu_Old

Does any normal consumer have ADSL at all? or even business

ando

this all seems like a bit of deshavu for me and my experiences from last week ..... new line (5/6 week wait).. adsl trials over ... your new line has failed the test.... '£uck you eircom' .... 'well at least chorus will be launching powernet soon' ..... *cough*

timod

Does any of the stuff mentioned at:
http://www.btofaq.net/articles/intro/failed.html
work on Eircom lines?

i.e.

Line gain
Dial 151 and ask them if line-gain has been enabled on your line. If it has, ask them to turn it "off". This will degrade modem performance slightly, but should help the ADSL line test results.

How long is your line?
The maximum permitted line length for ADSL is 3.5km from your local exchange. You can test your approximate line length by dialling (on your intended ADSL line) "17070", The response will tell you the number of your circuit. Then enter "3", then "1" (you ARE authorised, aren't you?), then "2". If you then hang up, the test system will call you back and tell you the approximate distance distance from your exchange.

Identifying your exchange
If you are over the permitted line length, the next step is to identify your local exchange. Sometimes this is obvious, sometimes less so. A good starting point is the comprehensive exchange list which can be found at http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/banks/5/index.html

Is there such a website for Irish Exchanges? It would be useful for some people to know where their exchange is. (It is possible to get that info out of the phone book, but online would be nice.)

Do the phone numbers above work, or are there equivalent nos?

Tim

dahamsta

Hi Tim,

Is there such a website for Irish Exchanges? It would be useful for some people to know where their exchange is.

It's been alleged that during the original LLU negotiations, Eircom refused to hand over network maps, citing, among other things, security concerns. The OLO's had to build up maps themselves. Probably an urban myth, but not entirely beyond the bounds of belief. I believe Fergus found something on exchanges recently -- Fergus?

It is possible to get that info out of the phone book

Is it?

Do the phone numbers above work

No.

or are there equivalent nos?

There are "special" numbers that the engineers use, but the distance one is new on me.

adam

Boston

you should have asked for the manager, he would have told you, as he did me, that he cant say weather or not there will be a place

shamrock

it's a load of **** if ya ask me. ADSL will be out of date everywhere else by the time eircom get off their laurels. UTMS will be out soon and thats a faster wirless connection. TO be honest I think a national wireless lan would be a better idea.

Sure. You'd have to fork out about 3 or 4 hundred euro for the antenna and the wireless lan card but if enough people go into it and had a few connections here and there to t3 r dc3 lines it would be fast enough..

And think of the games of counterstrike you coudl play!!!

timod

Originally posted by dahamsta

It is possible to get that info out of the phone book

Is it?

The info isn't in this years phone book, but I managed to fish stuff out of last years (at least in the 02 area issue)

On page 24, of the 2000/2001 02 phone book, there's a section called:
"eircom 02 local charge areas"

This lists the phone numbers that you can call for the cost of a local call.
E.g. The books says that somebody calling from Youghal (024)
can make local calls to:
021-642 (Ballincurrig)
021-646 (Ballycotton)
021-623,667 (Castlemartyr)
etc etc..

The name next to the number is the exhange name.

A quick scan through the listing, and I found my relevant number, and was able to tell for sure which exchange I was on.

There are probably 4 exchanges within a mile of me, so I wasn't definitly sure. (Thankfully, I'm quite close to mine )

It's not so relevant to rural areas, where it'll be fairly obvious which your exchange is, but in the city, it's sometimes hard to say.

timod

Actually, this could be a mini project for the research working group. The same info is prolly in the previous editions of all phone books. Just a matter of collecting it all, put it on a site, type in your number, a little bit of cgi, and it will show up your exchange name.

It doesn't give us maps, but gives us definate exchange names, which does help.

If I get a chance I'll pull all the 02 data together tomorrow.

Tim

XbLaDe

UTMS will be out soon and thats a faster wirless connection. TO be honest I think a national wireless lan would be a better idea.

UTMS is about 2 - 3 years away from whats expected of the technology. Networks AFAIK need to increase their masts by 7 fold to cater the service and with consumer concerns over radiation etc it might take longer.

Question: Has anybody outside the Dublin area been contacted for trials ?

shamrock

About the wireless LAN... Check oout this site... seems that there already is one:

http://www.irishwan.org/

Sher tis a good ieda anyway!!!

buddy

IVR is an Interactive Voice Response System - when you ring eircom etc you have to key in things on your phone - option 1, a/c number etc to get your details back.

Interactive - key things in.
Voice Response - it respond by calling out your balance etc.

This is one example of such a system. In eircom they will have an IVR to test a line status - fault etc.

The one system is not used to test PSTN lines for faults and lines for ASDL availability.

ASDl, as far as I know depends ona large number of things - e.g. Exchange being the primary one, not every exchange has ADSL ability.

timod

Hi All,

Finally managed to do as I said.

Info for Cork city is here:

http://ocean.ucc.ie/02/tjod1/exchange.html

Have fun.

Tim