Ardoyne Schools Fiasco

tools · 11-01-2002 5:11am #1

This is getting bloody ridiculous. If only the catholics had done as they were told and taken their kids to Holy Cross school via the back entrance, there wouldn't be such trouble spreading all over Belfast.

Report Here.

In the morning, pupils and teachers had watched in terror when six loyalists, one with a gun, rampaged through the grounds of Our Lady of Mercy Catholic girls' secondary school, smashing 18 cars with crowbars. Horrified parents rushed to collect their hysterical daughters.

In the afternoon, police used armoured Land Rovers to ferry Protestant pupils from the Boys' Model secondary past nationalist crowds on Crumlin Road to get them safely home to the Shankill, while other schools in the area were forced to close early.

"This is a disgrace, Protestant boys unable to get home from school," said Frank McCoubrey, an independent unionist councillor. "The whole world should see what's really going on in north Belfast."

Hobbes · 11-01-2002 6:49am

Yes I blame the parents as well if they hadn't brought their kids to school none of this would of happend. Being selfish expecting an education.

They should arrest the parents for purposely endangering the kids lives.

:rolleyes:

gandalf · 11-01-2002 9:38am

What the hell difference does it make what way they bring their children to school. They should be able to do it without a problem.

Its a bit hypocritical of the Loyalists to deny people a route into their school when they harp on every 12th of July about been allowed to march down their "traditional routes".

What this signals is a dangerous development where children are now been used to express sectarian hatred. As that quote says its now spreading and the Nationalists are now starting to use these tactics.

Personally I think we should have bought the Berlin wall when we had a chance and slapped it around NI and leave them all to it.

Gandalf.

FreaK_BrutheR · 11-01-2002 10:25am

Yeah i agree. those nationalist scum should have walked the way the good old loyalists told them to. [abuse removed - read the rules FB - Gandalf]

And gandalf....build a wall around NI and leave them to it?...i was under the impression that you at least had the ability to form an opinion/ come up with solutions/ have intelligent contributions to make? Obviously not. Stick your head in the sand,,,, g'man.

gandalf · 11-01-2002 10:51am

Sorry FB I forgot to put the

in !!

Gandalf.

Hobbes · 11-01-2002 10:59am

Here is my simple solution to the problem.

1. Anyone who is up to no good, arrest and jail them. Regardless of what side they are on. Put a minimum detention time on the arrest of a couple of days (that's excluding any charges).

2. If the person arrested has children have them put into care, as they are clearly not responisble enough to look after them (if they feel throwing firebombs at kids is good parenting).

I could think of other things but trying to think how they can't be abused.

Biffa Bacon · 11-01-2002 12:59pm

What I am sick to death of hearing is weaknik politicians and commentators talking about mediation and having discussions and talking about the need for both sides to trust each other etc. No. There is a very simple solution to the problem. Enforce the law. If people are rioting, jail them. If people are endangering police officers' or civilians' lives, retaliate with lethal force. Shoot them. Three arrests made yesterday? Pathetic. Another thing I am sick of hearing is rioters being described as "loyalists" or "nationalists" as if there is some sort of political motivation to it. Let's call them what they are: knackers. They are rioting because they are knackers. That's what knackers do.

bonkey · 11-01-2002 2:49pm

I've deleted the "wrong place" stuff, cause its irrelevant to the thread, and appears to be resolved

jc

Blind Boy Grunt · 11-01-2002 3:35pm

Well said Biffa. Most (if not all) of the media coverage seems to be obsessed with labeling those involved as either "loyalists" or "nationalists". "Knackers" mightn't be the best word either but its definitely closer to the mark

tools · 11-01-2002 3:47pm

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
What I am sick to death of hearing is weaknik politicians and commentators talking about mediation and having discussions and talking about the need for both sides to trust each other etc. No. There is a very simple solution to the problem. Enforce the law. If people are rioting, jail them. If people are endangering police officers' or civilians' lives, retaliate with lethal force. Shoot them.

When push comes to shove, for political reasons, the security forces are always much more lenient when loyalists are throwing their weight about. There was no problem beating Garvaghy Road residents off the street to allow an orange order march to go through. However when catholic children are being pelted with bricks and bottles and subjected to outrageous abuse, we are not likely to see a full scale no nonsense baton charge, followed by dozens of arrests. The problem may be escalated (that's what anti-peace process loyalists and republicans want) so mediation is the only solution.

Here's what happens when one dominant culture refuses to get with it and respect multiculturalism.

seamus · 11-01-2002 4:06pm

I just noticed one thing last night. I watched Hearts and Minds for about 10 mins. They had 2 politicians on, 1 from some Unionist party and one from Fine Gael.
They were both asked simply for comments. The fine gael guy just said how it was awful that people were reverting to violence, and effects it would have on the peace process, decommissioning, yadda yadda.
The Unionist guy though started off talking blame. He said there were 'certain groups' responsible for antagonising others, and from his languagem he implied the antagonisers were the Catholics.
I'm not basing any opinions on this, or am I siding with anyone, I just found it very interesting in the way both groups expressed their views. The minority side talk about solving it, the majority side attempting to absolve themselves of blame.

Sorry about not knowing names of people/parties, 'cos to be honest, I just don't give a **** anymore. Split them from Ireland and Britain and then we'll see who cares!

bonkey · 11-01-2002 4:08pm

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
Another thing I am sick of hearing is rioters being described as "loyalists" or "nationalists" as if there is some sort of political motivation to it. Let's call them what they are: knackers. They are rioting because they are knackers. That's what knackers do.

"And in this evening's news, rioting loyaslist scumbags threw bricks and petrol bombs at a peaceful protest being carried out by the nationalists.

Unfortunately, the peaceful nationalists turned into nationalist knackers, and retaliated in kind against the unionist scum."

Would make the news more interesting, wouldnt it

jc

DeVore · 11-01-2002 4:16pm

Originally posted by tools
This is getting bloody ridiculous. If only the catholics had done as they were told and taken their kids to Holy Cross school via the back entrance, there wouldn't be such trouble spreading all over Belfast.

Report Here.

You HAVE to trolling?!

Just done as they were told? Noone should have to bring their kids into the a school via the backdoor because of their colour or creed.

I thought Martin Luther King ended that...

DeV.

mike65 · 11-01-2002 6:52pm

Looking at the carry-on in North Belfast from a southern perspective, the biggest (bad) joke is that some down here want them up there to share this republic with us! Ha. :mad:

Every time the raw sectartian hate of many in Norn Iron is
highlighted in the news I'm glad to remember most people
"down here" don't actually want anything to do any of 'em.

Mike.

Victor · 11-01-2002 8:26pm

DeV, I'm surprised at the tone of the Guardian article.

Can pepole kindly remember that this is a two way thing. It is not simply a matter of children going to school. It would appear that there are a few children in Holy Cross School who have parents with extreme republican views. These are the same republicans who are orchestrating the harassment of Protestants when they go to the local shops (in most Catholic part of the area) and the occassional rioting. In part, this is what has provoked Loyalists. However, those loyalists have over-reacted.

tools · 13-01-2002 8:00am

On a related note, anyone see Tom Paulin shouting his head off at Germaine Greer on the Newsnight late review show thing?
They were discussing the Bloody Sunday movie and Greer says something daft like "it should have focused on other lives it blighted...like those of the paratroopers". Paulin shot in "What about the paratroopers?". Greer says "they were just working class boys" Paulin eyebrows arched as far as they can go shouts "I DON'T CARE! THEY WERE ROTTEN RACIST BASTARDS SENT IN BY PUBLIC SCHOOLBOYS TO SHOOT PEOPLE!!!! " And some more stuff then Greer was going "stop shouting stop shouting"

It went on in that vein. not exactly word perfect but I haven't got a good memory and it was fairly shocking to see. The film looks pretty good, one to fire up the emotions.

Sand · 13-01-2002 1:23pm

Great, just what the North needs then.

mike65 · 13-01-2002 3:45pm

Originally posted by tools
On a related note, anyone see Tom Paulin shouting his head off at Germaine Greer on the Newsnight late review show thing?
They were discussing the Bloody Sunday movie and Greer says something daft like "it should have focused on other lives it blighted...like those of the paratroopers". Paulin shot in "What about the paratroopers?". Greer says "they were just working class boys" Paulin eyebrows arched as far as they can go shouts "I DON'T CARE! THEY WERE ROTTEN RACIST BASTARDS SENT IN BY PUBLIC SCHOOLBOYS TO SHOOT PEOPLE!!!! " And some more stuff then Greer was going "stop shouting stop shouting"

It went on in that vein. not exactly word perfect but I haven't got a good memory and it was fairly shocking to see. The film looks pretty good, one to fire up the emotions.

Yep I saw the prog and thought just for a moment that Tom Paulin
was going to throw his glass of water at Greer, sadly British telly is too restrained for that kind of carry-on!

On the films, I think the timing stinks. The last thing Norn Iron needs right now is a bunch of triumphantly "hurt" republicans rubbing the Unionists/Loyalists noses in it again. Its like picking at a sore over and over....:(

Mike.

tools · 13-01-2002 9:46pm

Originally posted by mike65
On the films, I think the timing stinks. The last thing Norn Iron needs right now is a bunch of triumphantly "hurt" republicans rubbing the Unionists/Loyalists noses in it again. Its like picking at a sore over and over....:(

30 years after the event is bad timing? Oh we wouldn't want to upset the sweet and tender murdering bigots now would we?

chernobyl · 13-01-2002 9:55pm

The violence in NI is all because of blind hatred (aka stupidity) and should be given as much thought and discussion as how many layers on makeup Christina Aguilera uses @ once.

mike65 · 13-01-2002 11:12pm

Originally posted by tools

30 years after the event is bad timing? Oh we wouldn't want to upset the sweet and tender murdering bigots now would we?

Tools, you'vre just made my point for me!

How many really mad and angry Loylists does Norn Iron need, its got enough already. Also there is an enquiry ongoing which the makers of both films said they'd wait to conclude before going into production.

Mike.

Ardoyne Schools Fiasco

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