Broadband network plan may cut prices : Irish Times

neverhappen

Karlin Lillington in today's Irish Times

encouraging quote :

"According to senior Government and industry sources, significant pressure is building across Government to resolve the broadband issue."

seamus

n1, some very tasty quotes in there. Totally OT - wtf are the CIE doing with a huge private broadband network? They barely have a decent frickin railway network!!

neverhappen

Didn't a tribunal want to know more or less the same thing last year ?

It is understood that fibre networks held by semi-state agencies are being eyed for the project. Several agencies have built out such systems, including Bord Gáis, the ESB and CIÉ

Has anyone told the ESB this ?

This story (also in todays times)

(and also already referred to in another link here)

indicates that the ESB have their own plans for their network.

Left hand unaware of right hand activity ?

Fergus

I don't think I can take another announcement on broadband investment from the government coupled with the ongoing blatant ignorance of the end-user access issue. It's looking more and more like collusion with the telcos all the time. Time is up for the gross incompetence excuse.

aidan_dunne

I've just read the article and a few things came to mind.

Firstly, the government are once again showing their totally ineptitude at trying to get this country's broadband infrastructure in place and working. If I remember correctly, the government gave Telecom Eireann and then Eircom millions of pounds to help upgrade the old copper network to fibre and put a broadband structure in place. Yet, despite getting this money and working (rather slowly) on the ADSL project, Eircom are still only trialing ADSL and we are still no nearer to widespread ADSL in this country. We should have ADSL pretty widespread around the country at this stage with all this 'investment' going on yet we haven't even got flat-rate, yet alone ADSL. So, where did all this magical 'government investment' money go to? Into the pockets of the likes of Alfie Kane and his cronnies, I fear.

Now the government want to spend more of the taxpayer's money in trying to put another broadband infrastructure in place or have to go to other semi-state bodies like the ESB and CIE and ask if they can use the fibre network they have. Listen up you total gob$****es in Leinster House! There is already a fibre network in place around the country, one in which you already invested money in. There is no need to go and start all over again or ask the CIE can you use theirs. It's very simple. You go to Eircom with a very stern look on your face and say, "Look you pack of ba$tards! Get up of your f**king ar$es, light up that fibre, roll out DSL, offer competitive pricing to the other operators, offer FRIACO and DO IT F**KING NOW OR WE WILL PULL YOUR LICENCE!" Simple as that. That is why we need the Comms Bill implemented NOW! I'm am sick and tired of this government's softly-softly bull$hit. You get tough with them and tell them what to do otherwise we will be in an even worse state than we already are. Of course, that won't happen because Eircom have all the politicians paid off to keep quiet and keep this cosy cartel going. I can't wait until the general election because I am going to go to town on every single politician who comes knocking on my door.

Secondly, having read the article it now seems that sources within the government are finally copping on to what we have known for ages; that the broadband network in this country is non-existant and we need one if we want to stay competitive in the worldwide market. Unfortunately, it seems that it has taken a spate of job losses and the closure of several mutinational companies like Gateway for the government to realise that if we want to stay competitive and look like an attractive base for the high-tech industry we need to have the proper broadband and communications network in place. IDA grants will no longer be sufficent to attract or keep high-tech companies in Ireland. A decent infrastructure is just as, if not more, important. There almost seems to be a panic, in fact, within the government now to get a decent broadband network in place in order to stop all the IT companies pulling out of Ireland for more 'wired' countries. But having to start all over again is stupid and a waste of time and will invariably prove to be too late. Eircom need to be made to toe the line and get it's network up to scratch otherwise Ireland will be a Third World country again.

Thirdly, seeing as the whole tech industry in this country seems to be collapsing around us, do Eircom not realise that maintaining the attitude they have at the moment will also harm them in the long term as well? Less business means less companies using Eircom's network and less profit. Are Eircom so short sighted that they cannot see they will be out of business themselves in the future unless they change today? I'm sorry Eircom but those are the sad facts. You will have to learn to compete fairly today or you will not be able to compete at all tomorrow. Unfortunately, the selling of Eircom to Tony O' Reilly will only exacerbate this problem as he is a man who is widely known for working for short term gain. He will obviously milk Eircom for all he can and then in a year or two, when the $hit is really hitting the fan, will sell it off to some other poor unsuspecting eejit. The fact that the government (or to be precise, Mary Harney) approved the sale shows that there is most definitely a cosy-cartel between the government and the telecos. But it will all backfire in the long term. In fact, as I said earlier, the panic in the government shows that they realise themselves that it is probably beginning to backfire already and that our economy is on a very slippery slope.

What does this all mean? Can we pull one out of the bag and save our economy? Personally, I think it's time to start booking flights out of here to somewhere else, somewhere where ADSL and other forms of broadband is cheap and readily available. Better go check to see how much a flight to Germany or Sweden would set me back! lol.

sceptre

Interesting points, Aidan. Agree with most of your comments. I do think, however, that the government have an interest in sorting the problem (or Mary O'Rourke at least judging by her comments I've read even before Martin's meeting with her).

There is a lack of technical (and business awareness) there however, even in the mandarins of the Department of Public Enterprise. This is, as you've said, a problem for today (or even yesterday) rather than tomorrow.

Bottom line - Ireland will suffer economically without a commitment to broadband and flat-rate internet access (at affordable costs for homes and businesses).

People with small net-based businesses will leave the country unless they have some emotional ties to the place. This will be the first wave - people with small one-man enterprises that can be moved almost anywhere without interrupting the relationship they have with their existing customer base.

The second wave will be the multinationals. I'm putting these second because they already will have structures in place for communicating with their head offices, whether leased lines or something more exotic. The cost of providing their staff with facilities to work from home using Terminal Server or similar will be the proverbial camel's straw as they have to rely on Eircom for this. Telecoms come in second place for multinationals after a suitable workforce. There is a growing number of countries that have highly educated workers emerging with degrees and a proficiency in English as a second language. These workforces are either at the same or lower cost compare with Ireland. The telecoms cost of working from home (and a growing number of even smaller enterprises are providing this, including my last workplace before becoming a student again) will be the major cost difference for these companies, even just in the European market - there's always Scotland as an alternative.

This is the possible future of the high-tech cottage industries, as well as the major players. Mid-size enterprises won't as a rule move - this is the one part of the economy that doesn't expand or shrink much as a rule, even in the early 80s when the economy was truly in the dumper.

I always remember those IBM adverts from a year or two back when I read comments like yours, Aidan - like the one with the two old French people selling stuff allaround the world from their website. A well-thought approach to the problem, properly and quickly exercised would mean that people would be coming here with their small web businesses, not leaving.

You're quite right in what you have said. The only trouble, as always with comments like yours, Adam's, Martin's (and the others, you know who you are) is that on this forum, you're mostly speaking to the converted. The Gateway exodus (in particular) was nothing to do with our shoddy infrastructure - Gateway were on their way out in any case. Intel and Dell (to pick two) are not though. Hopefully they won't be before a solution is implemented.

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by sceptre
I do think, however, that the government have an interest in sorting the problem (or Mary O'Rourke at least judging by her comments I've read even before Martin's meeting with her).

There is a lack of technical (and business awareness) there however, even in the mandarins of the Department of Public Enterprise. This is, as you've said, a problem for today (or even yesterday) rather than tomorrow.

Bottom line - Ireland will suffer economically without a commitment to broadband and flat-rate internet access (at affordable costs for homes and businesses).

I agree that the government do now have an incentive to try and get a proper broadband infrastructure in place and are trying as best they can to get it up and running as soon as possible. Certainly the downturn in the economy has made them realise that we need this infrastructure in place if we want to survive in a world market. However, I think that they have brought a lot of this on themselves because they were in cahoots with the telecos for far too long and it's only now that they are beginning to realise the error of their ways. What I don't agree with is the way they are going about getting a broadband and fibre network operating. Why spend millions more of taxpayer's money on trying to 'get a loan' of CIE's fibre when the likes of Eircom and Esat already have miles and miles of unlit fibre lying around that they should be forcing these telecos to light up, miles of fibre, might I add, that the government gave money to the telecos for in the first place. And the same goes for flat-rate and broadband. The government should be pushing Eircom as hard as possible to introduce FRIACO and release realistic pricing for ADSL. Holding back the implementation of the Communications Bill which would give the ODTR powers to make these demands gives the impression that there is definitely collusion between Eircom and certain elements within the government.

Originally posted by sceptre
People with small net-based businesses will leave the country unless they have some emotional ties to the place. This will be the first wave - people with small one-man enterprises that can be moved almost anywhere without interrupting the relationship they have with their existing customer base.

I agree completely and would also like to add that not only will the existing small net and IT businesses leave for more prosporous regions but unless things change in this country people will be put off trying to start up their own small net businesses.

Originally posted by sceptre
You're quite right in what you have said. The only trouble, as always with comments like yours, Adam's, Martin's (and the others, you know who you are) is that on this forum, you're mostly speaking to the converted.

And that is why the public and politicians who don't know about all this need to be informed about the dire situation in this country. That is why they will be getting a right earful from me when they come around looking for votes in the general election. By the time I'm finished with them they'll know all about what's going on and will be desperate to get away from me, hopefully in order to actually go and sort out some of this sorry mess.