Tough new Traveller law planned

Lump

Agree or disagree??


I think that as far as I'm concerned I agree with them. However, after reading down through the article I would think to myself that maybe it's a bit unfair. I mean has the government provided any alternative? What do you think?

Taken from http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=633630&issue_id=6344


John

Doc

now how did I miss this,

doc post on topic or not at all

Pimp Ninja

Taken from article
Hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage has been done to GAA pitches, parks and other public amenity land across south Dublin in recent months by the setting up of illegal itinerant encampments.

This is by no means a recent thing. Travellers have been "setting up camp" wherever they liked for years now. Usually encorporating a couple of stripped car chassis, maybe one burned out, and a big pile of mud, where the grass used to be after they move to somewhere else.

Is it only that they are now causing damage in South Dublin, the area where most of these Politicians live and work, that it has become a problem?
Or is it something else?

Its true they are not all responsible for the actions of a small group, so I wouldnt like too see somebody with a huge brush painting all travellers the same colour.

Yes this is a problem, yes its been around for a long time, a really long time.
Why is it only now that action has been taken?

Kix

Fair enough. There's a group of travellers blatantly taking advantage of the fact that the legal process to get people off your land is slow and difficult. Confiscating their property will make them take notice in a way that other penalties would not.

I've heard many stories of the intimidation and destruction of property people have suffered at this group's hands. If you went into the toilet in their caravans and started to set up house they wouldn't be too understanding.

This is a bunch of people who don't care about anyone else's rights. Society owes them no favours.

K

TwoShedsJackson

That law looks fine to me, if Travellers want to go about the place in caravans and all that, that's up to them, but there is absolutely no reason they should be allowed camp on private property, wreck the place, and then demand money (25,000 quid to get off a building site in Lucan a couple of years ago), to leave.

Figment

This is a bunch of people who don't care about anyone else's rights. Society owes them no favours.

why should they care when 'our' society has taken away all their rights!


they were/are an equally legitimate race/society/whatever and have lived in this country as long as we have. They have their own customs, history, tradition, lives, deaths, loves. Like any race of people.
yet this country has developed in one way and has made no provision for an equally legitimate share of the population. Isn't that discrimination and racism. Yet we would shout about south Africa and organise rallies for it a few years ago. How come we cant recognise it here and adjust our thinking. I see no mention of providing an alternative for these people. What rights have we to take away their way of life.

It seems that this country will not be happy until they are all driven out (as many are to England because what life have they here?).
What's that word again when you wipe out a race of people???!

They are probably thinking the same as you.
'This is a bunch of people who don't care about anyone else's rights. we travellers owe them no favours or curtesy'

Figment (who is just trying to provoke thought and is a guilty as the next man)

seamus

I'm sorry, call me rascist if you will, I don't care, but I hate the bastards. In fact, they say that it's only a minority causing hassle for the rest of the travellers, but in all my time, I have never met one of the majority. I used to live across the road from a halting site, and for about two years we had nothing but hassle from them. They constantly came around scrounging for money, they stole stuff from our sheds(We know it was them cos we caught them in the act), and went through our rubbish, dumping stuff they didn't want on the grass patch in front of our houses :mad: The kids were scum, always trying to pick fights and rob our bikes while we were still on them. Anyway eventually they settled down, and all was hunky dory.

Then I moved away, and another big group of them moved on to a private GAA pitch right beside the halting site. The same crap started again. One guy even had his phone robbed from his car when he went back in to get his briefcase one morning. He was gone for about 30 seconds. The pitch was wrecked, and the clean-up bill is about £80,000, something which us taxpayers have to pay for, and the local government tells us they can't prosecute, 'cos they have no proof? WTF??!!?!!? The pitch still isn't restored, 6 months later :mad: They've also wrecked the area beside the dodder.

Travellers weren't like this when I was a kid. Fine they were a bit scruffy, but they never did damage to where they were living, just the recent ones seem to be worthy of a shot in the head, because they are just scum. There is no other word for them.

Someone should maybe tell them it's the 21st century. I mean, get a fúckin house!!!!!!! And maybe we should tell them that inbreeding is going to keep them ugly, stupid and poor. :mad:

Trojan

I agree with the proposed law in the form as mentioned in that article.

I don't feel particularly guilty for agreeing with it, and nor am I racist, I think it's more of a realist attitude: I'd like it if 90%[1] of travellers[2] were nice people who cared about this country and didn't destroy our parks and roadways, and that it were only 10%[3] of them who caused the terrible pollution and environmental and social trouble that they do. Unfortunately, those numbers[see notes 1 and 3] are more likely to be reversed: either that, or the 10%[3] are actively causing as much trouble as possible.

There are just too many anecdotes of this happening. A case I read about during the summer was where last summer some "travellers" had an "industrial cleaning company" which went around removing buildings, roofs, etc made of asbestos etc. Their appropriate dumping facilities were the football pitches of a well-known Dublin city footballing school[4]. It cost over £22,000 to clean up after they moved on (a real industrial cleaning company had to come in and do a proper job).

I notice they've moved in on the Alfie Byrne Road now (perhaps some of the lads will come down from the East Wall and "help" them move on?).

I believe "genocide" is the word you were looking for Alan, but I don't think it's the most appropriate one to use in this situation, it'd only bring an emotive term into an already emotional situation.

Al.

1. Figure made up, insert suitable "majority" percentage here
2. If you are offended by the term "traveller", please insert the appropriate noun (I'd make suggestions, but I wouldn't dare offend)
3. Figure made up, insert suitable "minority" percentage here
4. I'm not certain which one, but I believe it was St. Marys in the north city.

Lump

OK, DOC, WHAT THE FU<K are you talking about??



John

swiss

I do feel that these FG proposals are warranted. I know that many travellers do feel at present that many in society are discriminating against them in modern society. Now, of course they will feel that the Government will perpetrate these same discriminatory attitudes should they adopt these proposals and sign them into law.

The simple truth of the matter is that these proposals are not in any way discriminatory against travellers, IMO. As a matter of fact, the reverse is the case. If any member of the settled community were to engage in such acts of wanton destruction with such impunity, we would very quickly see the law step in and administer a very swift kick in the pants to any individual caught. To date, this has not been the case with the travelling community.

These proposals advocate a strict stance against travellers where they are clearly illegally upsetting the peace of the wider community. I feel that, to date, the authorities actions in relation to such incidents as these have been too permissive. When traveller elements that clearly engage in such anti-social behaviour realise that they can be prosecuted and brought to book over their actions, then they will find that having equal rights as the settled community entails the same responsibilities as the settled community, and to earn the respect of people they must behave responsibly.

Bosco

Hi folks,

I, like many here who have expressed negative sentiment toward Travellers, have had my share of bad experiences. Until recently, I felt as many here feel, hating an entire people based on the criminal actions of relatively few. I came to realise however, that we as a people are directly responsible for the current situation.

Given the way our government has treated the travelling community in recent decades, there is absolutely no way things could have turned out differently. We have made it extremely difficult to survive in this country as a Traveller while not breaking with Traveller custom. Custom and tradition are extremely important to a people, and to force a Traveller into a house is in the eyes of most Travellers a crime of the foulest nature. To some, 'settling' would be a betrayal of all they have been brought up to believe, all that was taught to them by previous generations. And make no mistake, trying to force Travellers into houses is exactly what we've been trying to do.

We have banished hundreds of people to the fringes of our towns and cities, providing them with minimal (and sometimes non-existent) facilities as regards utilities, transport and most importantly education. We have denied them (mostly through our bigotry) basic human rights and needs such as a secure environment in which to bring up children and the means to make a decent living. We have done these things, and we expec them NOT to turn to crime as a means of supporting themselves?!? We have in fact made it extremely difficult to survive as a Traveller in this country without breaking the law. We have committed injustices. The Travelling community (and to a far lesser extent the settled community) has suffered greatly as a result.

You cannot just 'move on' hundreds of people from the land on which they live without providing them with a real, viable alternative, an alternative that provides the hundreds of things that settled people take for granted, and most importantly, an alternative that allows these people to retain their beliefs and traditions. We owe these citizens of Ireland, these people we have marginalised for so long, a very real and great debt. By helping them we help ourselves.

Just a thought

Bosco

Monty - the one and only

I also happen to agree with this....The majority of those that I have seen hold no respect for anything it seems, most recent group that I can think of is one of about 20/30 caravans parked themselves along the dodder(in dublin) river beside bushy park( some of whom are still there btw) and have turned the the area they were in into a trash heap...

If they dont respect or even obey the law, they should get what they deserve. Simple as that.

Clintons Cat

From Monbiot.com

more

and more

adnans

i agree with the proposed action. only the most ignorant travellers that have no clue in how to act in a civilised world will have to be dealt in such a way. there is not much else to say.

whats traveller's story in the Irish history anyway? where do they come from? why havent they tried to provide better facilities for themselves instead of travelling around the country making it harder for them to get jobs and messing up their children's education/future by moving around the country and not having a permenant school to learn and develop?

can anyone answer that?

adnans

mayhem#

There's a really nice thread 'bout this on either soc.sulture.irish or ie.general....

gigi

Hi, a newbie here who just had to post a thought

Whereas I agree that something has to be done to stop those few travellers who *do* cause damage, set up camp and dump illegally, surely we cannot think it is right to take away their caravans? After all a traveller's caravan is their home, when a settled person commits a crime against society there is never even a thought of possessing their house. How can we as a society support reducing a person to homelessness, punishing any children they may have for their parents wrong doings, leaving people on the streets. I think it is utterly and morally wrong. Jail them, fine them or make them bear some of the cleaning cost, but you cannot take away a family's home, it's wrong.

Asok

Originally posted by gigi
Hi, a newbie here who just had to post a thought

Whereas I agree that something has to be done to stop those few travellers who *do* cause damage, set up camp and dump illegally, surely we cannot think it is right to take away their caravans? After all a traveller's caravan is their home, when a settled person commits a crime against society there is never even a thought of possessing their house. How can we as a society support reducing a person to homelessness, punishing any children they may have for their parents wrong doings, leaving people on the streets. I think it is utterly and morally wrong. Jail them, fine them or make them bear some of the cleaning cost, but you cannot take away a family's home, it's wrong.

There is a warning period so it then falls to the parents if they end up on the street all they have to do is move on

i`m all for this its about time... call me a biggot if you want but some of these people deserve this