British Troops Ideal For Afghanistan ?

Fidelis

Sky News have been parading the 'elite' Britsh troops of 40 Commando over the past few days in an attempt to convince the public that they actually do have a fighting force to deal with Mr. Bin Laden.

Going on about how they can fight in the snow Wow, these guys must be grrreat! Would it not be right to think that the Norweigians, the Swedes or possible the Russians possess the finest snow-fighting forces ?

Goes to show just how naive the station must be. Either that or they're being asked to do it by the MOD. Wouldn't surprise me really.

By the way, this war is wrong.

Lex_Diamonds

Its going to be interesting to see how long it takes America and Britian to realise that their troops are being massacred by the Taliban and pull out.

I suppose it was too much to ask that America would look at this situation sensibly instead of going in with a big gun. Ah well, the seeds of future conflicts are being sewn as we speak.

Human race are ****ing idiots, sooner an ELE comes along the better if you ask me.

Typedef

Sky News is an appendage of the British propaganda machine, as is corroborated by the above. In the same way Hollywood is an appendage of the US propaganda machine espousing the US has this freedom and that freedom.
Seems as if the majority of people have the right to vote for Al Gore for example and they also have to right to not do a damn thing about one of their right wing political famalies rigging the election either but hey what are you gonna do?

Rte is just an appendage of our government I mean come on Mary Harney's sister is a news caster for RTE news. Hello conflict of interest, and you know what they say , blood is thicker than water. I guarentee that as long as Mary Harney's sister works for RTE news there will never,ever,ever be any damaging reports about the PD's and consequently this amounts to a tacit kind of state run propagandist network.

Just my opinion.

Gargoyle

Originally posted by Typedef
Sky News is an appendage of the British propaganda machine, as is corroborated by the above. In the same way Hollywood is an appendage of the US propaganda machine espousing the US has this freedom and that freedom.
Seems as if the majority of people have the right to vote for Al Gore for example and they also have to right to not do a damn thing about one of their right wing political famalies rigging the election either but hey what are you gonna do?

Rte is just an appendage of our government I mean come on Mary Harney's sister is a news caster for RTE news. Hello conflict of interest, and you know what they say , blood is thicker than water. I guarentee that as long as Mary Harney's sister works for RTE news there will never,ever,ever be any damaging reports about the PD's and consequently this amounts to a tacit kind of state run propagandist network.

Just my opinion.

Typedef, please stop embarrassing yourself talking about election rigging and such. Whatever your fringe beliefs, they have nothing to do with the situation at hand.

Magwitch

Russian special forces were about the best in the world, but that was a long time ago. The ranks of the Russian special forces were heavily diluted towords the end of communism and after its collapse the entire program became a sham. Alpha Wing, the Elite of the Russian army, was drafted by Yeltsin as the Presidential bodyguard, an indication perhaps of the changing role of elite forces in Russia given its unsatble political climate. To date there are over 150,000 ex-army men in the CIS with special forces training, a statistic that points to the watering down of what was a very good force.

Nordic troops would be good, but lack combat experience. At Officer level this is essential to carry off operations. The British are about the most combat experienced in the field (Desert Strom can be ignored).

What America is only realising now is that the core of the Taliban fighters is (or was) an Elite army in the making. Chechyn fighters, who are at least as good as properly trained Russian Spetnez are the cadre, providing high levels training to the seven thousand or so "Foreign Legion" that prop up the Taliban.

Recent successes by the Taliban against Northern alliance forces and the failure of Norhtern Alliance forces to penetrate Taliban positions despite air support point to a mobilisation of this core Taliban force. The previous status quo in Afghanistan was only maintained because the Taliban were deploying second string fanatics to the front to hold ground while an Elite force was in formation in Bin Ladens bases. I believe these troops are more than a match for the northern Alliance if deployed to front line positions to go on the offensive. They would even be a match for standard British infantry (or better) man for man (whom I believe could not do the job in this scenario).

It should be remembered that elements of this Elite force are drawn from the Hezzbolah, who forced the IDF out of south Lebennon and of course Chechyn fighters who defeated the Russian army and still strike at will within the borders of the CIS. This is a force whoes younger officers have more combat experience than anyone the Allies have at the same level. They have defeated conscripts, regular army and special forces in India, Lebennon, Chechnya and fought in Bosnia and Sudan for certain.

It is imperitive that the Allies stop bombing as it is being mucked up and past public pressure has led to ineffective bombing practices anyway. But America is talking about delaying a ground deployment until spring or early summer. Apart from the winter conditions I think the American Army is attempting to bolster its Elite forces before commiting the cream of its troops to any long term ground venture. If it went pear shaped America could be left without any capable air-mobile troops and special forces. If I am right then their decision and tack points to an acceptance of a hard fought and costly ground camapign in early spring - ie. this is not going to be over fast. It would also mean that the facilities, practices and knowledge are available now for any organisation to build a Elite private army, all they have to do is supply suitable candidates (the hardest part).

Any British contribution would be very small and likely ineffectual in a large scale conflict within Afghan borders.

Hobbes

Typedef, please stop embarrassing yourself talking about election rigging and such. Whatever your fringe beliefs, they have nothing to do with the situation at hand.

Hmm, a foreign country with a president gotten into power under means which would suggest it wasn't by the people but instead some judge bigwig wigs who are also friends of his. His father previous president and one time leader of that countries secret police.

The president then goes onto ignore any world treaties to make it a better place, causes an international incident by killing another countries military pilot by spying and then blames it on the country they were spying on.

Takes the peoples money and invests heavily in a military system that doesn't work and throws the rest to the people making them think that he's magically creating money when in fact he's taking it from thier pensions.

Then at the time of a national tradegy he uses it pass laws which infringe on the fundamental rights of the people in that country. Also increasing funding to the secret police and expanding thier powers forever to spy on it's civilians without legal challanges.

Also while that president is in office a large number of package scares are conducted against the press and goverment which helps to keep the public from easily communicating with the goverment/press.

Also this president claims (extremly quickly after the incident) that a certain person is responisble for it and that they must bomb a country in order to kill the guy who did it (no trial for the evil person!), without presenting evidence to the country that person is in and also bombs foreign aid places within that country which are helping the starving there.

NOW BEFORE YOU START RETORTING

If this a description was of anything other then the USA, wtf response do you think other countries would say?

To be honest, I'm just waiting for Bush to pass in a new law that disallows voting of a new president and changing the name to "El Presidente".

bonkey

Originally posted by Typedef
Rte is just an appendage of our government I mean come on Mary Harney's sister is a news caster for RTE news. Hello conflict of interest, and you know what they say , blood is thicker than water. I guarentee that as long as Mary Harney's sister works for RTE news there will never,ever,ever be any damaging reports about the PD's and consequently this amounts to a tacit kind of state run propagandist network.

News casters read what is put in front of them.
News editors decide what to put in front of them.
News writers actually decide what to propose to the editors.

A news caster, therefore, has no say in what the news is, nor do they have any influence on how a story is spun.

So exactly how is MH's sister controlling the entire Irish broadcasting network from such a lowly position?

jc

Typedef

You might ask how did Jeb rig the election for "El Presidente" from such a lowly position, but he did.

Manach

Just to make a few general points, in my own personal opinion
- The British infantry are among the best, given their record of deployments in the Falklands, Gulf & Northern Ireland.

- But from a quick read of the Brits 1842 invasion of Afganisation, (1 survivor of that army) they have a tendency to underestimate "primative" foes.

- I think it odd that a person who gets less votes in an election wins but that was the law prior to Bush's victory. Given the polls so far, he might even get elected proper next time

- Propelor planes just do not ram jets.

- The CIA is an external agency, tasked to spy on other countries and is prohibited by congress on internal spying (The FBI is the secret police)

- No agrument from me on the stupidity of ignoring international treatys, esp. one's concerning biological weapons.

- Bin Laden, has been linked in the past to the USS Cole & African embassys attacks

- My own final 2p, a war is only justified if
I santioned by the UN
II a clear and present danger exists to the state.
Thus this war (point II) is right.

Clintons Cat

the daily mail ran a piece on how the british forces currently on military exercises in oman were provided with standard european kit rather than going to the expense of desert kit. there will probally be enough money to equip the 1000 or so "earmarked" troops with the much more expensive winter kit .wether 1000 men would make that much difference in a country the size of afganistan is another question.As a rule of thumb how many squadies were required in the North at the hieght of the troubles?
The ammounts currently mooted are totally inadequate for anytyhing more than a token role.
The issues of incompatibility of field radios and the jamming of SA80 Rifles in extremes of heat and cold still remain a constant bug despite numerous modifications.Hmm what are the two most notible features of afgan winters and summers?

Magwitch

The troops being talked about on the news are not to my knowledge the specialist desert fighting units the British army has (nick named the desert rats). Even money says the Brits have a greater deployment than admitted to currently.

And good point Manach about the UN. I though it interestng that the UN found it necessary to point out throught their special envoy to the region that the Taliban, who wanted evidence of OBL's guilt, executed without trial, Adullah Haq. Those who have agrued for evidence have been strangly quite on the subject since that murder. I would also add that killing Haq by hanging was an unforgivable insult that the Taliban will come to regret (and so they should).

Clintons Cat

The desert rats was the unofficial nickname for the 6th Army based in north africa during the second world war.It was disbanded at the end of the North Africa Campaign and the various elements incorperated into the army group assembled for the sicily landings.
There is no British army specifically trained for desert warfare.
100 Commando and the Sas Regiment get its troops drawn through rigourous selection process from the Parachute Regiment and Marines.They are trained to operate in a variety of enviroments.including desert and winter enviroments.

Fidelis

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
Sas Regiment get its troops drawn from the Parachute Regiment and Marines.

Wow, Mr.Cat. Your knowledge astounds me :rolleyes:
First and foremost. No. Anyone from the British Military can go for the 22nd.

Secondly, your information on this mythical 6th army is irrelevant. I think you mean to suggest that the 8th army was nick named the desert rats.

And to the best of my knowledge, the SA80 jamming problem has been rectified by supplying new magazines and firing pins.

Clintons Cat

1 i think youll find 22 have to be from the paras likewise the SBS have to be from the marines.
if you want to cite your reference i will happily concede the point.

2 well its a long time since i read my boys own comics so your probally right it was the 8th.
but i think you agree that the desert rats no longer exists then.

3 as for the firing pins and magazines have rectified some of the problems but not all of them,a new series of modifications are required to iron out faults of operating at the extremes of weather conditions despite £80m being already spent over 10 years.


....
:rolleyes:

Yossarian

The SAS draw there recruits from the mainstream british army.

The 7th Armoured division was nicknamed The Desert Rats. During the North African campaign (WW2) this division was part of the 8th army. Afaik the 7th Armoured Division still exists and fought during the Gulf war.

Fidelis

I haven't read the book in years but I believe Andy McNab was a regular RGJ private in a rifle regiment as he did his two Selections.

Clintons Cat

yes your right,i just hauled out one of my books from stock,
serves me right for drawing on childhood memories of daring do rather than proper research.


*my humble appologies*:(

Fidelis

Someone apologises on the humanities boards ? This is a first. I get over-zealous about these things, sorry for my *witty* sarcasm

Magwitch

Originally posted by Yossarian
The 7th Armoured division was nicknamed The Desert Rats. During the North African campaign (WW2) this division was part of the 8th army. Afaik the 7th Armoured Division still exists and fought during the Gulf war.

It is to that unit that I was refering (in the context of reports during the Gulf War). Reports at that time made much of the 7th's desert capailities. - Thanks Yos