Am I the only one...

Bard

Am I the only one who can probably find a problem with every sentence in this blurb from eircom.net:

eircom net, with a comprehensive national and international network, provides high-speed access and direct Internet links to Europe, the USA, and the rest of the world. At eircom net, we see how the Internet is impacting on our customer’s lives at home and in business. We supply a range of products and services, which enable our customers to surf the web, purchase online or just send and receive e-mails. Over the last 10 years, we have specialised in supplying businesses, large and small, with an extensive range of technical and commercial Internet business solutions. Our aim is to make sense of the Internet and make the Internet work for our customers.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank our customers for making us Ireland's single, leading premier Internet Service Provider.

(found by going to www.drivingtest.ie and clicking on the eircom.net logo to get a popup window)

--

afterthought... hmm... maybe the Blackout should be called the Scarecom Blackout (just to avoid using Eircom's name in connection with it)...

Hallowe'en -... "Scare"com... geddit?

P R O F A N I T Y

I cant remember the exact wording, but i got a piece of eircom spin the other day, comparing ntl, spirit, esat and eircom prices.

it was like 7p to call anywere in ireland for 7 minutes***********

Insuper small print
* May not be a real price
** Is at Weekend rates
*** Rounded up to the nearest hold number
**** Does Not include local calls
***** Prices may have changed since this was printed
****** May not be factual
******* Applies to internet charges only
Ha what a load of ****e i thought,

Matfinn

Quote from Bards quote

"We would like to take this opportunity to thank our customers for making us Ireland's single, leading premier Internet Service Provider."

It was actually you Eircom who managed to make yoursleves Irelands leading service provider, because youhave focused yourselves on driving out any possible competition from this country for as long as I can remeber, and you have been robbing your customers blind for god knows how long.

Hopefully soon you will have no customers to thank, because the way you behave in the Irish market is sickeningly unfair and very damaging to alot of people. You deserve no custom from anyone. Soon I will have an alternative, and hopefully many other users will too.

http://www.irishwan.org --> You cant take that from us!

I am not an extremist 'I hate Eircom' type, I just dont like seeing decent hardworking people being ripped off, or our country's economy being nearly held to ransom by one organisation. I beleive Eircom are doing both things vehemetly, and until they can offer a good and reasonable explanation as to why they are doing this so, then that is the way I, and many other people, will see them.

Thanks and god bless

Matt

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Niall
Re: Not wanting to use the eircom name in the blackout publicity...

I think we need to include their name:( so that ppl know who and what we're complaining about. I would though propose using the "€" symbol when spelling their name. Its been a feature used by those w/ anti- micro$oft feelings for a good while now!

**me thinks I might just avail of those nice AerLingus prices for the blackout weekend- hhmmm!**end of me thinking out loud**

dahamsta

I think we need to include their name:( so that ppl know who and what we're complaining about. I would though propose using the "€" symbol when spelling their name. Its been a feature used by those w/ anti- micro$oft feelings for a good while now!

Sorry 80p, but I disagree, for three reasons:

1) Although the protest is targetted heavily towards debunking them, Eircom are not the only target by any manner of means. We need to draw the attention of - and to - everyone involved, including Eircom, the OLO's, the ODTR and other government departments. They're all guilty, just to varying degrees.

2) Although we're certainly going to be attacking Eircom here, I don't see any profit to be made from making a *complete* enemy of them. We'll have enough trouble trying to get them into a room after this - presuming it's successul - as it is, without tacking their name onto it as well.

3) Using Eircom's trademark in something this high-profile would be inadvisable in my view. It's very unlikely they'd sue us, but there's a distinct possibily that they would try and get an injunction based on "brand weakening" or somesuch. Of course that's the whole point, but there's no point in leaving ourselves open to that, and also weakening our own "brand" by changing it halfway through.

On the subject of using the EURO sign in Eircom's name, well, I like using it here because I think it's funny, but I don't think IrelandOffline should sacrifice the professional image it's built up by using it in mainstream marketing.

I think we should stick to "The BLACKOUT", "The IrelandOffline BLACKOUT" or variants thereof. And I'm not being selfish when I say that. <adam stamps his little feet>

adam

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Fair enough Adam.

Personally I'm not sure exactly who the target of the blackout is...
ie. is it Directed to all the parties holding up the show or is it just €ircom. If its just €ircom the above statement stands but if its a general gesture to all the parties then it would be inapropriate.

However we must make the avg. person, oblivious to the ongoing saga, aware of the parties involved- and if that means we have to name parties (w/ or w/out funny mispellings) then we'll have to- which was Nialls original concern!

Giblet

Mocrie (mockery) is eircom backwards


We supply a range of products and services, which enable our customers to surf the web, purchase online or just send and receive e-mails

WOW!!!!!

the worst thing is this is a main selling point

i'd like to see a We provide 512k/128k ADSL service for everybody

dahamsta

Personally I'm not sure exactly who the target of the blackout is...

[DISCLAIMER: All this is my opinion, and possibly doesn't reflect the beliefs of the committee as a whole.]

I believe there are two definitions of "target" in this instance. There's 1) "Who are we trying to hurt?"; and 2) "Who are we trying to get the attention of?" They overlap, but they aren't necessarily the same thing.

In the first instance, Eircom have taken an aggressive approach to maximising their profits in Ireland, and although in a capitalist society that normally isn't a bad thing, this isn't a normal situation. Eircom have abused their position with monopolistic, even incorrigible behaviour, and that makes Eircom Public Enemy No.1. Whether in public or private hands, the national comms infrastructure - the PSTN network - is a national asset, over which Eircom retains ultimate control. That by definition makes them a monopoly, and because that monopoly cannot be taken away from them in the short term, it is the government's duty to control that monopoly until proper competition comes about. That makes the government Public Enemy No.2. And the OLO's should be aggressively tackling both at every turn, but they aren't. Public Enemy No.3.

So they're the targets of the blackout from a "Who are we trying to hurt?" perspective, in that order. We want to directly and irrevocably damage Eircom's brand; we want to embarass the government by highlighting their incompetence; and we want to embarrass the OLO's lackadaisical attitude. And I use the words "damage" and "embarrass" advisedly, because I think the government and the OLO's will recognise and respond to our protest, and possibly even use it to leverage change; but Eircom will "take the PSTN to the grave". In other words, it's my view that we have a chance of working with the government and the OLO's, but we really do need to damage Eircom to get them to mend their ways.

Personally though, I really don't want to hurt anyone, I just want people to see sense. My prime objective in suggesting and implementing the blackout isn't to damage people or organisations - although I will have no qualms in doing that - but to publicise the fact that there actually *is* a problem in the marketplace. Most people simply don't know that, they go through life using the Internet and the phone and complaining that they can't use it as much as they want; and that it's costing too much. But because people are for the most part naive, and Irish people by their very nature tend to balk at complaining, nothing is done.

Make no mistake, we're the exceptions here, we're the oddballs in their eyes. For the most part we're people just like them, people who are visibly and appreciably being hurt by overpricing and a lack of suitable products and services, but they don't recognise that. They don't understand the technology, and they don't understand the basic fact that it can get better, and that they can have a part in making change. We have to explain that to them, in basic terms that everyone can understand. No-one else is going to do it, so we really have a duty to take part in this protest and highlight the fact that the problems they're suffering are affecting everyone else too.

So although Eircom will be the prime target of our "marketing" or "propoganda" - call it what you will - they're absolutely not the prime target of this protest. The main objective is to grow our userbase to make IrelandOffline a "force to be reckoned with". Or, to put in blunt terms, it's a power-grab, because that's the only way to get things done in a democratic society. So, on the subject of "Who are we trying to get the attention of?", the order of importance changes somewhat:

1) Irish consumers & businesses - are the people with both the most to lose and the most to gain out of IrelandOffline.

2) The Irish Government (as a whole) - comes second because we need 1) to get their attention.

3) Other Licences Operators (Esat, Colt, etc) - come third because if we can highlight our support, we'll highlight the profits to be made, both financially and from a marketing perspective.

5) Other people Europe- and world-wide - come last, because drawing the attention of other countries will embarass the government.

4) Eircom - come dead last, because no matter what we do, they're not going to take any notice of us.

There's your targets.

adam

hmmm

If you're going to back out of targetting Eircom (and saying so) and go for some fluffy general protest, you might as well just do the proverbial into the wind. "Irish internet users give out about everything" has less impact than "Irish internet users target Eircom". The latter I'd grudgingly support, the former I'd actively oppose. So there :-7

dahamsta

If you're going to back out of targetting Eircom (and saying so) and go for some fluffy general protest

That's a very extremist way of viewing my post hmmm, I'm surprised by it? Make no mistake, the website (when I can get people out of their holes to finalise the date!) will not be kind to Eircom. It won't be kind to anyone, and I won't even have to twist the truth even a tiny bit to be right nasty about it. I was just trying to clarify that that's not my prime objective. My prime objective is in garnering support, so that the next action we take, in whatever form it is, will be far more powerful. Without people power, IrelandOffline is a bunch of Internet junkies sitting around playing games and talking trash.

adam

Lemming

Originally posted by Bard
Am I the only one who can probably find a problem with every sentence in this blurb from eircom.net:

No. Short n'sweet

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Thanks for the point of clarification of Adam

[btw- "word up to dahamsta"- you put so much effort into your replies- Obviously getting onto the cmtee. hasn't left you resting on your laurels!]

You've spelled it out in no uncertain terms that everyone who has slowed things up is a target for the blackout- ie if it was a criminal investigation... everyones a suspect! This of course means that the phrasing of the reasoning needs to be careful not to accuse those not responsible for certain aspects of delay etc. and should identify where neccesary specific culprits.

Additonally Perhaps an idea would be to collate a name and shame list like the rev. commisisoners love to do! This could annex any official letter we may send to public reps etc.

gurramok

Am I the only one who can probably find a problem with every sentence in this blurb from eircom.net:

No !!
It's all about the brand, if the brand has a good image, it will survive. I believe that the nonsense and false/misleading info coming from the EircoN brand in various forms(hi-speed, 1p/min crap, mouse ad crap, survey crap and other deceiving adv u see on tv/newspaper/web) should be exposed to the general public for what the brand actually is, a fluffy general protest would not work.
ppl will have to know the reason y, as a % of actual blame,
over 50% of blame is on eircoN, they have had too many yrs/chances to listen to the customer

For crying out loud , a flat-rate 56k product is not even available in 2001/2002 never mind broadband !!
That errorcom site setup by a distgruntled net user is a shining example of how their brand is more important than customer concerns. Did anyone see eircoN ever respond so fast to a customer query/prob than the speed they went to bring down 'that' site.....don't think so. :mad:

In my humble opinion they have gone too far to escape the majority of the blame.....lest not forgetting that odtr/gov/esat(as a former snl over-usage customer) form a minority of the blame

A blackout is an appropriate way of highlighting our probs, i believe that a similar blackout had an effect in France a couple years back.

P.S. shame i don't have the euro symbol on this keyboard

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by gurramok


P.S. shame i don't have the euro symbol on this keyboard

Just hold down alt and type 0128
like so.... €

Giblet

and a box appears
yeah i have the symbol but it aint showing up with this font
ah well
€€€€€€€€
all just boxes to me

seamus

I'm gonna be the one to tear this statement limb from limb then I suppose....

Originally posted by Bard
eircom net, with a comprehensive national and international network,

emm....the only unbroken national network they have is the analogue one, and that's not even their's, It's belongs to teh parent company

direct Internet links to Europe, the USA, and the rest of the world.

That's not a service eircom net provide, that's the whole point of the internet!!!!ffs!!!:mad:

At eircom net, we see how the Internet is impacting on our customer’s lives at home and in business.

This, from a company that has been reliably quoted saying 'The Irish people are bored of the internet'

We supply a range of products and services, which enable our customers to surf the web, purchase online or just send and receive e-mails.

Pretty much every GUI OS comes with a browser and email client as standard, without which, the internet would be useless for 90% of (100% of eircom net's) users. They would be required to supply these if the client didn't have them, not supply them as if they are doing you a favour

Over the last 10 years, we have specialised in supplying businesses, large and small, with an extensive range of technical and commercial Internet business solutions. Our aim is to make sense of the Internet and make the Internet work for our customers.

I refer two quotes ago - they don't have a clue about the internet

We would like to take this opportunity to thank our customers for making us Ireland's single, leading premier Internet Service Provider.

Ireland didn't have a choice. They are 'Ireland's single, leading premier Internet Service Provider' by default, because of their local loop control. grrrrrrrrrr :mad:

dahamsta

Actually I prefer...

eircom net, with a comprehensive national and international network of damp, mangy copper, rotten poles, tin cans, solder and a few bits of wire we found on the local tip.

adam

gurramok

Just hold down alt and type 0128

it don't work !!

GoneShootin

EIRCOM BAD

end of debate

logic1

Originally posted by gurramok


it don't work !!

Make sure your using western european encoding.

(View -> encoding)

.logic.

sceptre

Originally posted by gurramok


it don't work !!

Try ALT GR (right of space bar) and 4

Like so: €

(if yer still on win95 you'd need the font updates from Microsoft)

gurramok

Try ALT GR (right of space bar) and 4

it works !!

€€€€€€€€€

ty sceptre

oscarBravo

Originally posted by seamus
emm....the only unbroken national network they have is the analogue one

It is far from unbroken. It's absolutely goddamn useless, and I'm fed up hearing about PSTN dialup being referred to as 56k when so many of us can barely sustain 28k, and many more can't get dialled up at all. Just today I heard about yet another neighbour whose phone line won't sustain an Internet connection, and Eircom fobbed her off.

Originally posted by seamus
Ireland didn't have a choice. They are 'Ireland's single, leading premier Internet Service Provider' by default, because of their local loop control. grrrrrrrrrr :mad:

Is it me, or are Eircom flirting dangerously with lawlessness by referring to themselves as an ISP? Granted, eircom.net is an ISP, but we keep hearing how they are a completely separate organisation and subject to the same T&C as any other Eircom customer. Given all this, how come Eircom keep presenting themselves as Ireland's only gateway to the 'net?

To Eircom: let me make this clear. We don't want or need you to promote the Internet in Ireland! The people of this nation will discover the 'net very quickly once it is made readily available.