Extreme Programming

Hobbes

http://www.extremeprogramming.org/index.html

I haven't finished reading all of it yet but it is certainly intresting.

Maybe I haven't seen it yet but while the process looks good, it seems to deal more with the actual coding of a product rather then costing or dealing with fixed release cycles (Eg. quarterly releases).

Anyone use this before? What are your thoughts?

Trojan

Hey Hobbes,

Haven't used it, but I've read the Beck book ("XP Explained")... as you said I'd like to hear if anyone actually has used it, especially in a production env.

Just going one by what I've read, there's a lot of good ideas in the process (as mentioned at http://www.extremeprogramming.org/rules.html on that site).

One of the higher profile ideas was the pair programming concept: it sounds like a good idea (once you read *exactly* how to do it without causing fights ), but I really can't see this being accepted into mainstream development for a fair while to come (except maybe in your research depts there).

What dya think yourself?

I looked up those books, there's

Extreme Programming Explained: Embrace Change (The XP Series) by Kent Beck
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201616416/ref=bxgy_cc_text_b/102-5145061-0177769

Extreme Programming Examined by Giancarlo Succi, Michele Marchesi
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201710404/ref=bxgy_cc_text_a/102-5145061-0177769

I like one of the comments there:

To summarize :

A lot can be accomplished with a small hand-picked group of people who are emotionally stable, secure, honest, and communicate well who have a nice work environment, lots of feedback, and a diligent but benevolent boss.

Well, "duh!" Under those conditions *anything* would work. The author pretty explicitly rules out most real life situations at the end of the book.

If these principles of XP are a revelation to a manager, that manager is so far in the hole that they'd better stick with traditional management structures before they do real damage.

Consultants can look for business restoring traditional structure to many groups in 2002 .....

lol

Al.

Shiminay

Personally, I find I work better when I can "play off" another person. I've done a little bit of it here at work and it's worked well (only small areas where our joint skillsets could accomplish the task) and it really did half the time spent on the area.

There are elements in it that say you write your test plans first - from the product spec and then write just the code you need to fulfil the test plans. It's a really good idea that (common sense kinda).

Ebeon was going to introduce parts of it (the test plans thing definitly), but we all know what happened there!

Evil Phil

Exosoftware in Dublin use xp. Check out their website for informatin on the xp community in Ireland. I know they do occasional seminars and they have a pub night.

eXosoftware

Don't use it myself and it's been a while since I read anything about it but I'm going to refresh my memory today.

ManWithName

Iona are getting into this in a big way too, it seems. They invited Kent Beck over to do a talk a while ago. I think the pair programming thing sounds good, and I like the idea of the "stand up" meetings...I'm sure that would have made a big impact on a cow-orker I had before who used to love to hear his own voice for hours and hours Iona and their offspring XmlEJB

Hobbes

heh I got all three books.

It seems to assume that your programmers are egotistic beginners who have no concept of what they are doing.

Some of it is good, some makes sense, some doesn't. But a lot of it is "My way or the highway" attitude that every other way of development is flawed.

I also like his part that if someone does not want to pair program they should be called a witch then fired.

Trojan

It seems to assume that your programmers are egotistic beginners who have no concept of what they are doing.

Describes me almost perfectly

but seriously, did you try any of the stuff? What parts have you implemented?

btw Beck seems more like a "your mileage may vary" and "take the parts you like" kinda guy in his one, or so I thought...

Al.