Buying an automatic

thejuggler

What should I look out for when buying an automatic? I know they are not very popular in Ireland. I have heard the bigger engines are better for automatic cars but I don't know if that is true.

Big Nelly

thejuggler wrote:

What should I look out for when buying an automatic? I know they are not very popular in Ireland. I have heard the bigger engines are better for automatic cars but I don't know if that is true.

Well you lose alot of power in an automatic....this is true to all automatics....no matter how big an engine.....more power with a gear stick......

Friend bought an import one....Mirage.....98 one.....I hate it to be honest......when I first get in I keep going for clutch but soon got past that!! the major problem is when it changes gears you get a chucking motion as it jumps up into the next gear....I find it extremely slow as well.....but it only has a 1.3 engine in it.....but a 1.3 non-automatic is alot faster...have drove the Colt which was exact same, 99 one....was alot faster!!

Few years ago was in a brand new Primera automatic...not sure what engine was in it but a big enough one being the new type Primera.....cousin from US had it rented out.....was driving around in it for about a day(at that stage I had an older model Primera) and althou it was a little slower on the take off you didnt have the same chucking motion as it went up thru the gear box....GF also drove an automatic in NZ this year, was an Alemera or soemthing similiar to a primera....2ltr engine or so....she said there was no problem with the chucking

So in other words yeah the bigger the engine the better,.....myself I would never change to an automatic.....take the fun out of driving without changing gears:D

unkel

thejuggler wrote:

What should I look out for when buying an automatic? I know they are not very popular in Ireland. I have heard the bigger engines are better for automatic cars but I don't know if that is true.

What car were you thinking of?

Big Nelly wrote:

Well you lose alot of power in an automatic....this is true to all automatics....no matter how big an engine

Not true. You don't lose any power. Traditionally automatics in general were a bit slower (mainly in acceleration, only slightly in top speed) because they were slightly heavier than the manual they were based on. Also the gear changing in the automatic was not optimal

This is more and more a thing of the past though. Take the BMW 530d for example. Both manual and automatic do 0-100km/h in 6.8 seconds...

Big Nelly

unkel wrote:

Not true. You don't lose any power. Traditionally automatics in general were a bit slower (mainly in acceleration, only slightly in top speed) because they were slightly heavier than the manual they were based on. Also the gear changing in the automatic was not optimal

This is more and more a thing of the past though. Take the BMW 530d for example. Both manual and automatic do 0-100km/h in 6.8 seconds...

Maybe in the big ass automatic but how many people can afford them??? as above I mentioned that a newer Primera didnt have the chuck motion but was slower off the line.....in most automatics that your normal joe soap will buy there will be abit of power loss and also slower on take off....from driving them I found this.....in both the Primera and the Mirage/Colt.....this is speaking from a personal point of view and I have also seen it reported on numerous occasions......

I know on the bigger cars this doesnt happen....avid watcher of TopGear!!

Ratchet

i like manual cars and yes they do have entertainment factor
However, in current traffic situation , automatic makes lots of sense.

you don't have to do motorists version of riverdance everytime you drive to work. clutch-brake accelerator clutch-brake, brake brake horn. clutch fingers accelerator

i had lots of manual cars but also
1.5 mk 1 CRX auto
and 1.5 CIVIC SLI auto

both of them were rockets and great for town. 1.3 automatic is waste of time, gearbox will be hunting for gears. they feel slower mainly because clutch slip and funny engine noise. on paper they just bit slower. Just because your engine revs higher doesn't meant that you are going faster. I could take anybody from traffic lights. You just boot the car and it does go instead of spinning wheels . Now you can get tiptronic gearboxes and the one where you can lock the gears. Also handy on motorway you just boot the car again and box drops gear lower instantly and revs got up like mad- instant pull,

another thing it doesn't roll on the hills and in multistorey carparks

if you are boyracer type then go for manual. saying that there is enough performance cars fitted with auto box.

Interceptor

Big Nelly wrote:

normal joe soap...

Eh who now?...

The majority of cars sold on this planet are automatics and the technology used to design and build them has come a long way in the last twenty years. Irish attitudes to electric windows, airbags and 'anything else that can go wrong' has always meant slow takeup and a fear of the unknown. The 'chucking' described is known as flaring and it happens when the clutches and brake bands wear in high mileage cars - it does not affect all automatics. You don't need to buy a bigger engine, just a model with a good engine/transmission choice. I've driven several Jap import Micras with auto boxes and found them very pleasant. My wife has an automatic Espace and she didn't want it when I brought it home - (said it took the fun out of driving or some nonsense) but she insists that she will only ever drive autos from now on.

Most cars sold in Japan (and most of them have 'smaller' engines) and most cars sold in the US have autos and I take the point that they have bigger engines but average engine sizes are on the increase worldwide, we are just slower to accept it.

To the OP - give an idea of what you have in mind - I am a big fan of autos, I've owned several and driven lots and I have never been able to kill one. Merc and BM are working on seven speed boxes which will make progress very smooth indeed. Many people will tell you that Merc manual boxes are actually very poor and their autos are the best in the world. If you have a model in mind and are planning a test drive you should plan to drive it at least ten miles in a mix of conditions watching for juddering under braking, flaring on acceleration and that the car doesn't slip backward on an incline when in 'D'.

'cptr

Dcully

Only this day last week i changed my 99 1.8 toyota avensis automatic and it deffo was not down on power.
It was every bit as powerful as a m8s 1.8 manual and a lot more powerful than standard 1.6.
I cannot praise this car enough,infact if you want ill link you to who has it for sale now

AlanD

There's only one affordable automatic on the market that's worth anything and it's the PAG group's DSG gearbox.

I've driven it in a new Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDi and I have to say it's the best auto I've ever driven. Changes are seamless and power delivery seems instant.

unkel

Forgot to make a relevant point in my above post. Again take the example of the BMW 530d where the acceleration figures are the same for manual and automatic

Anybody can achieve the 6.8 seconds in the auto, just put the foot down. Only a professional driver that knows the optimal shifting points will achieve it in the manual

So for non profesional drivers the automatic is faster than the manual

unkel

AlanD wrote:

PAG group

Damn, Porsche are moving fast on this one. Last I heared they bought some shares, now they own the place

thejuggler

I'm openminded really but I'm looking for a smaller car for my wife who has a slight disability which means it would be easier for her to drive an automatic than a standard car.

So from what I've read nothing smaller than a 1.4 is a runner?

She doesn't need a car for the open road - its most city driving anyway - going to work etc.

Johnny Storm

unkel wrote:

....So for non profesional drivers the automatic is faster than the manual

IMHO this is true. In my old auto PASSAT I used to leave all the other cars behind when pulling away from the traffic lights literally without even meaning to.

For driving in Dublin traffic the auto is yer only man

The only disadvantage of autos is a slightly worse petrol consumption.

It's amazing to me how many people have a bad opinion of autoboxes - seems to be some kind of macho thing - once people have tried one for a week or two (ie rental on holiday in the US) they usually come to their senses.

ALL of the above is purely my opinion, of course.

AlanD

unkel wrote:

Damn, Porsche are moving fast on this one. Last I heared they bought some shares, now they own the place

yeah heard that too and now they've sold them again....

Obviously I mean VAG.......:rolleyes:

Johnny Storm

thejuggler wrote:

I'm openminded really but I'm looking for a smaller car for my wife who has a slight disability which means it would be easier for her to drive an automatic than a standard car.

So from what I've read nothing smaller than a 1.4 is a runner?

She doesn't need a car for the open road - its most city driving anyway - going to work etc.

The auto is way easier to drive in traffic. I'm not sure if the 1.4 is an absolute limit. Some smaller engined cars have CVT autos (a different type of automatic gearbox) which should not be clunky.Take any cars you are interested in for a test spin and if they have clunky, unpleasant gearchanges then forget them.
FWIW My wife used to have a 1988 Civic 1.4 auto which was very smooth and great to drive(and is still going strong).

unkel

Are you buying new or second hand? What's your budget?

thejuggler wrote:

She doesn't need a car for the open road - its most city driving anyway - going to work etc.

For city driving any engine would do, even a Micra 1.0 liter

paconnors

I Have the tiptronic model gearbox and i must say that the car is very nippy and you dont notice anything when she is changing gears. Very Economical as well

Ratchet

unkel wrote:

Are you buying new or second hand? What's your budget?



For city driving any engine would do, even a Micra 1.0 liter

auto micra would be more likely 1.3 belt driven CVT and they aren't solid boxes

anyway back to question, things to check for most of the boxes
-service history is good as gearbox should be serviced regulary(gearbox oils has to be changed frequently)
-If the fluid is discoloured (brown ) or smells of burning more likely transmission has been overheated. Replacement of the fluid is then necessary.
-gear changing should be free from any heavy vibration and there shouldn't be any "jump in to gear" changes
-auto box should not really hunt for gears so do try to take it for longer spin

Kersh

My 300zx twin turbo is an auto, and with a turbocharged car an auto never falls off boost, so it keeps propelling you to the horizon. And you get the magical kickdown, when you floor the throttle it drops 2 gears and is off like a rocket - no wheel spin, no nothing, just acceleration, and as an added bonus i dont get tired crawling down the m50 every day...:rolleyes:

unkel

Ratchet wrote:

auto micra would be more likely 1.3 belt driven CVT

Previous model was 1.0 CVT, current model is 1.2 with conventional auto, which is a shame

Ratchet

unkel wrote:

Previous model was 1.0 CVT, current model is 1.2 with conventional auto, which is a shame

most cars i seen ranging 93-03 were jap versions of european 1.3 LX/SLX NCVT

Eoin

thejuggler wrote:

I'm openminded really but I'm looking for a smaller car for my wife who has a slight disability which means it would be easier for her to drive an automatic than a standard car.

So from what I've read nothing smaller than a 1.4 is a runner?

She doesn't need a car for the open road - its most city driving anyway - going to work etc.

This may seem like a very strange car to suggest, but the Daihatsu Terrios is a 1.3 pretend SUV that comes in an automatic. I have driven one, and although it didn't set the road alight, it was a lively enough engine and more than capable for urban driving.

However, there are a good few negatives to this car, a few being that it is very narrow, only 2 seats in the back, boot storage is pretty poor, it looks just a teeny bit crap (but this is obviously very subjective).

Pistachio

If your wife is not looking for anything fancy, I drive a Hyundai Accent 1.3ltr auto which I bought new in 2000, I find it excellent, never had it to garage except for regular service, never let me down, great around town and on roundabouts. I would prefer something with more power for longer journeys but could honestly recommend the Hyundai otherwise. HTH.

unkel

Ratchet wrote:

most cars i seen ranging 93-03 were jap versions of european 1.3 LX/SLX NCVT

Old model Micra imports from Japan were 1.0 too, check this

maidhc

I'm not a great fan of automatics myself, however, it is strange that auto boxes in cars are so primitive in comparison to those found in agricultural tractors.

CVT boxes are common now in many tractors (replacing powershift i.e. clutchless change boxes at an alarming rate), and standard on larger models. The disadvantages (inevitable power loss) seem to be outweighed by the advantages (increased efficiency, less driver fatigue, etc). I know part of the reason is that the useful powerband in a tractor is less than 1000k rpm, but that doesnt explain totally the perseverence of the manual box.

thatkindofgirl

I'm a big fan of automatics, although unlike most of my north american peers, I drive both manual and automatics well. I learned to drive in a car with a 3l engine, dual exhaust, turbo. I've driven all kinds of cars over the past 13 years. I commute 50 miles each way to and from work, and I'm on the road 3-3.5 hours a day. What car I'm driving makes a huge difference to my wallet, mood and general well-being.

My current car is a 1998 Nissan March -- automatic, 998cc engine. It's a bit annoying at 120 km/h, but other than that, it's a brilliant car. If I never had to go over 100kmh, it'd be the perfect car. It's comfortable, reasonably fuel efficient, the transmission is in great shape, and in most cases I beat almost every other car off the mark when the light turns green.

It has a button to switch off "Overdrive", so it forces the downshift when you really need that extra Oomph for overtaking.

It has aircon too, so I'm not all sweaty when I get home in the summer, which is pretty sweet. :-)

I picked mine up for under €5k, and it only had about 60000 kms on the clock.

Big Nelly

Interceptor wrote:

Eh who now?...

The majority of cars sold on this planet are automatics and the technology used to design and build them has come a long way in the last twenty years. Irish attitudes to electric windows, airbags and 'anything else that can go wrong' has always meant slow takeup and a fear of the unknown. The 'chucking' described is known as flaring and it happens when the clutches and brake bands wear in high mileage cars - it does not affect all automatics. You don't need to buy a bigger engine, just a model with a good engine/transmission choice. I've driven several Jap import Micras with auto boxes and found them very pleasant. My wife has an automatic Espace and she didn't want it when I brought it home - (said it took the fun out of driving or some nonsense) but she insists that she will only ever drive autos from now on.

Yeah the majority of cars sold on planet!! thats because the US cant drive anything but an auto!! cant drive most of them to be honest!! that is no reason!! US is the biggest market in world so if they sell auto then of course it is going to be the biggest seller in world!!!

In regards to the "flaring" as you call it....good engine/transmission????? the car I am talking about only had 20K on the clock and was in perfect condition!!! as mentioned by a few people on here this happens to all small engine autos.....I guess micra's with a smaller engine would have exactly the same problem!!!

also making a point about a woman driving an auto?? not much of an arguement to be honest!!

Tell the truth....auto's are for people that cant drive and shouldnt be allowed on the road in the first place!!:D

thatkindofgirl

Oh cute. You really think women are bad drivers. How lovely.

Tell me, how much was YOUR insurance this year?

Big Nelly

thatkindofgirl wrote:

Oh cute. You really think women are bad drivers. How lovely.

Tell me, how much was YOUR insurance this year?

Thanks I am cute!!! beautiful to be honest!! Brad Pitt isnt a patch on moi!!!

very cheap!!! I have managed to not hit a car in over 11 years driving!! how much was yours?? and more to the point how long driving and how many marks has your car??? its so hard to park at the shopping centre...bang.......:D

Please note people I am taking the pi*s now

thatkindofgirl

I haven't ever caused an accident. I've been driving 12 years and have always driven a lot including in ridiculous weather -- blizzards, tropical storms, etc.

I'd love to see the Irish driving population see a real snow storm. ROTFL

My car has almost no marks, and those that are there (I've counted 5) were there when I purchased the vehicle. Many dealers have commented that it's a very "clean Micra".

The fact that you honestly believe an entire nation of 296 million people "can't drive", and that half the population of the world are bad drivers (despite all evidence to the contrary!) pretty much paints your picture quite clearly though .

Awfully cocky for someone from a nation of unlicenced drivers.

Big Nelly

thatkindofgirl wrote:

I haven't ever caused an accident. I've been driving 12 years and have always driven a lot including in ridiculous weather -- blizzards, tropical storms, etc.

God your great arnt you? Give yourself a slap on the back......believe me nobody else will....of course you would say it was ridiculous weather....was prob a drizzle and you where doing 5 mph down the road with full headlights on and the fog lights on(want me to explain how to turn these on and off???)

thatkindofgirl wrote:

I'd love to see the Irish driving population see a real snow storm. ROTFL

Sorry but why you laughing? always sad to see a person laugh at there own jokes when they are crap

thatkindofgirl wrote:

My car has almost no marks, and those that are there (I've counted 5) were there when I purchased the vehicle. Many dealers have commented that it's a very "clean Micra".

First off....lol at saying that dealers say you have a clean car!! sure they will tell you anything to make out they are giving you at great deal...and of course you never made those marks....sure you never seen the car you hit so it couldnt have been you

thatkindofgirl wrote:

The fact that you honestly believe an entire nation of 296 million people "can't drive", and that half the population of the world are bad drivers (despite all evidence to the contrary!) pretty much paints your picture quite clearly though .

Awfully cocky for someone from a nation of unlicenced drivers.

First of all wtf are you talking about? you American? because this sounds like the sort of sh*t they come out wit? but then ur driving a Micra and I know that a Micra isnt sold in America so please explain!!! if you see my above comments I was taking the piss! but then again you are a woman so you cant see what is straight in front of you!!

Also again wtf about the unlicenced drivers??? ok there is alot of learner drivers on the road but everyone I know has full license so how are we a nation of unlicenced drivers????? if you are American which is sounds like do you have a full Irish license???

Again people please note the satire.....sorry but lost on this person

thatkindofgirl

No, I'm not American. Neither am I Irish. I have a full international licence. I am still waiting for a test in Ireland (great system guys!).

Interesting how you call being an ignorant pig, "satire". Is that the Irish meaning of the word?

I guess you'll tell me how I bought my car from "many dealers" too. Perhaps this is another Irish facility I am unaware of.

And why do you hate women so much? Did your mammy treat you bad?

Big Nelly

thatkindofgirl wrote:

No, I'm not American. Neither am I Irish. I have a full international licence. I am still waiting for a test in Ireland (great system guys!).

Interesting how you call being an ignorant pig, "satire". Is that the Irish meaning of the word?

I guess you'll tell me how I bought my car from "many dealers" too. Perhaps this is another Irish facility I am unaware of.

And why do you hate women so much? Did your mammy treat you bad?

Resorting to personal insults....yeah of course you are driving on an international license.....did you bother applying for the test yet??? seems strange that everyone that knows they wont pass the test cant get a date....who ever I know applies for test gets a date within 2-3 months at most in Dublin and less outside.....maybe its just me and the sh*t drivers cant get a test......

if you have come on here to insult the Irish then please f**k off!!! this is an ie website!! Irish people will be here and we comment on Irish things.....strange again that is!!

Maybe english isnt your main language because if you could read proper any of my comments above there wasnt nothing serious!! you just cant be bothered reading it....pick up on one part of my remards and then go around calling people names because you cant understand the meaning of the quote.......so I would suggest you go back to school or english lessons(which ever is required) and start over again because from what I have seen you havent a f**king clue

Hate women? where the f**k did you get that from??? again showing you IQ rating!!! I dont hate women! if fact I love them...and plenty of them as well;) ...the more the merrier(not sure how GF would take that).....again I will say the first comment was a piss take...UNDERSTAND.....the same as the one about auto drivers are just for people that cant drive.....also me and mammy get on great....wat about your mother?????

Oh yeah there is no satire anymore.....

thatkindofgirl

Get help

Big Nelly

thatkindofgirl wrote:

Get help

lol......no more personal insults????? aaahhhhhh

You should get help......look up yellow pages for english lessons!!!



Anyway enough of me winning arguements....in regards to initial point....how many dealers in Ireland actual sell new auto's??? I have never seen any except for imports or the larger model BMW/Merc

PlayaFlow

well my dad drives a Merc C270 CDI Auto . I all i can say is that its absolutley Savage!!...this car eats up the road. i drive it all the time and especially when youre on the M50 and wanting to overtake - you just pull out onto the fast lane and put your foot down and youre gone!! -something to do with the 400+nm torque.

anyway it feels muuch faster than a manual as the changes are so smooth and lightningly fast. i love that car

Johnny Storm

Whoa! Those last few posts kind of add evidence for my earlier point that not liking automatics is some kind of macho thing for some people.

Can we try and get back on topic for the benefit of TheJuggler, the original poster, please?

Big Nelly

Johnny Storm wrote:

Whoa! Those last few posts kind of add evidence for my earlier point that not liking automatics is some kind of macho thing for some people.

Can we try and get back on topic for the benefit of TheJuggler, the original poster, please?

Who is being macho??? this is already back on topic!!

prospect

Well, I am gonna get REAL macho on ye:


My MX5 is an auto!


Not by choice, as I do prefer manual transmission, (btw my other car is manual).
But having said that, in the mornings in traffic, and cruising long distances with few gear changes, the auto is really lovely and, em, relaxing.
But on the quiet country twisties, the manual is more fun, just because you feel more involved in the drive i suppose.

As for power loss in auto, if there is any, its negligable.

Mah two cents.:)

Borzoi

Big Nelly, thatkindofgirl - cool it, both of you. No more warnings.


As for the topic, I'd love to be able to put the car into some sort of 'automatic mode' for city driving, but retain the manual for the open roads.

Big Nelly

Borzoi wrote:

Big Nelly, thatkindofgirl - cool it, both of you. No more warnings.


As for the topic, I'd love to be able to put the car into some sort of 'automatic mode' for city driving, but retain the manual for the open roads.

No probs man....wasnt there a car out a while ago like this??? think I seen something on topgear about it....maybe my imagination getting away from me!!

lazylad

thatkindofgirl wrote:

I haven't ever caused an accident. I've been driving 12 years and have always driven a lot including in ridiculous weather -- blizzards, tropical storms, etc.

I'd love to see the Irish driving population see a real snow storm. ROTFL

My car has almost no marks, and those that are there (I've counted 5) were there when I purchased the vehicle. Many dealers have commented that it's a very "clean Micra".

The fact that you honestly believe an entire nation of 296 million people "can't drive", and that half the population of the world are bad drivers (despite all evidence to the contrary!) pretty much paints your picture quite clearly though .

Awfully cocky for someone from a nation of unlicenced drivers.

You obviously have issues if you are going to generalise every driver in this country. If you have a problem I suggest you get help and leave if it calms your, "provoked" by OUR society, angry personality.
You have a cocky attitude that is uncalled for. Noone on this boards is fully right RIGHT!. Arguing gets nobody nowhere but getting banned for some sh*t reason! So I suggest you keep your cool and don't generalise.
After all, didn't a European survery suggest that the Irish were either 2nd best or 2nd most confident drivers in Europe!
Either way you will attack that argument :rolleyes: But let the study speak for itself!:cool:

If someone attacks you on boards, ignore it and laugh it off, its just "type". I think anyone who argues on the internet is a pr*ck! or b*tch!

Keep fightin with a keyboard and mouse and shouting at a screen! Better than a real argument eh!:rolleyes:

telemachus

In fairness the guy spouting exclamation/question marks out of every orifice was hardly subtle in generalising about all Americans, quickly followed by all women, I guess the satire went over my head.

Big Nelly

telemachus wrote:

In fairness the guy spouting exclamation/question marks out of every orifice was hardly subtle in generalising about all Americans, quickly followed by all women, I guess the satire went over my head.

Its long over and done with.....back on topic!!

maidhc

Please, people. Arguing about American and/or women drivers has nothing to do with "buying an automatic".

(Although I'd love to know why colour coded bumpers on american cars are always and invariably destroyed... someone might start a thread...)

AMurphy

Color coded bumpers, that's a new one on me...not seen Bar Coded bumpers either. but we live and learn.

As for automatics. Modern automatics can be pretty slick, the "manual" or "auto-stick" mode on several cars is like clutchless shifting, otherwise, very similar in response.

Automatics do absorb a few HP, cause they have internal hydraulics which need to be kept pressurized, just like PS and AC absorb power, so to the primary hydraulics of the AT.

Which are better... Some Truck A/T are rated for higher torque than the manuals for the same vehicle, so it goes both ways.
A/T's are far more expensive to replace and to repair. And thy need frequent ATF changes, new ones with synth ATF's probably require an ATF change every 30K. AT/s do have clutches, which do wear eventually, so 100K mls out of a box is pretty good.
Easier to chage the single dry clutch int eh manual

Automatics are great in Dublin traffic, where you get about 5 feet per move when the traffic and bad weather peak together.

Automatics do have an adverse effect on your brake pad life, as the AT is always pulling, whereas the manual, is actualy brking, whe you drop the trottle.
Off the line acceleration is generally better with an AT, though it diminishes rapidly.

As for branding drivers who use automatics "pufters", well we could extend that argument to those who use ASB, Electronic Stability, power brakes, aircon, electric start, etc.....also.

When I was a lad we had real cars and real drivers, hand crank to start, bring your own hot water bottle (or wench) if you wanted heat and a few patches and glue, if you wanted to repair a flat....

My advice. Grow up.

Blaster99

Surely the torque converter saps power at lower speeds before it locks? Automatics are definitely slower than manuals and use more fuel.

AMurphy

There are some internal pumping losses in the Torque converter also, just like as with any pump.

Cars with A/T are as capable of doing 120 and ones with manuals, so the AT is not inherently slower or faster.

Typically the losses have to be covered with more fuel being consumed.

Not all Torque converters lock. and even with the TC locked, the internal hydraulics still require a few HP to maintain pressure.

Johnny Storm

Blaster99 wrote:

Surely the torque converter saps power at lower speeds before it locks? Automatics are definitely slower than manuals and use more fuel.

In my experience they use more fuel but do not feel slower.

_Kaiser_

Well I have to say my 98 Mirage Auto is very agile on the road (and it's a 1.3) and so handy in traffic. I can fill it for about €35 at the moment and that'll do for the week's travelling on the N3.

As for the common complaint of "they're slow" - well this is Ireland (not Germany), where the average (legal) limit is 50-80kph which ANY car these days will do comfortably. You want to do more, take it to the track

[rant]
We'd all be a lot safer on the roads if there was more cop on behind the wheel than power in the engine what with idiots driving around with no lights on in the dark/no indicators/dangerous overtaking/speeding
[end rant]

Blaster99

By "slow" I incidently meant 0-60, but automatics have lower top speed too, presumably because of the gearing.

No particular offence intended and this is a personal opinion, but I'd say your 1.3 auto is a dog to drive in the scheme of things. Autos need a lot of torque to get around the fact that they're typically in the wrong gear and the transmission loses torque. That's why they tend to work well in diesels. You can rarely get much performance out of a diesel even with a manual, so it usually doesn't really matter which you choose.

unkel

Blaster99 wrote:

You can rarely get much performance out of a diesel even with a manual, so it usually doesn't really matter which you choose.

Where have you been the last decade? Both diesels and automatics have evolved greatly