An Post workers have a Cushy Deal

ballooba

According to Central Statistics Office data, Postal Workers earn considerably above the average weekly wage for industrial workers and are among the best paid people in the country:

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/earnings_dist_business.htm
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/indearnings.htm
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/public_sector_earnings.htm

They also do pretty well compared to their Civil Servant buddies.

Tha Gopher

The postal service treat their staff well. My uncle was caught drunk or drinking on the job at least 3 times in his 20 odd years with them (on one occasion someone rang the HQ up to report his post van was parked outside a pub):D He was about the only working class alcoholic I know of who seldom had severe money trouble, in essence he could afford to be one, unlike all his mates whos kids starved etc etc

He also got robbed at gun point 3 times, so its not all its cracked up to be

audge

ballooba wrote:

According to Central Statistics Office data, Postal Workers earn considerably above the average weekly wage for industrial workers and are among the best paid people in the country:

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/earnings_dist_business.htm
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/indearnings.htm
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/public_sector_earnings.htm

They also do pretty well compared to their Civil Servant buddies.

Jesus, you would think the least they could do, for that amount of money, is deliver the fekcing post on time. I had to wait until 1pm for my CAO results, and I remember waiting until 2pm to find out if I had been accepted onto the degree course in college, by that stage I had actually convinced myself that I had not been accepted and this was the reason for the lack of post (seriously, my friends where txting my from 8 in the morning to inform me that they had got their acceptance letter) I was ready to murder the postman!!

Tazz T

I lived in the UK for 16 years and the postal service here is a joke in comparison.

No post on a Saturday - what's all that about?

Mossy Monk

it is a pain in the arse that we get no deliveries on a saturday

vibe666

for a nice comparison, a friend of mine posted a CD to me from a village post office in rural Thailand last year. At the same time, he posted another CD to another mate in Cambridge.

Thailand to Cambridge = 3 days.

Thailand to Dublin = 16 days.

How's that for service?

And I live 5 minutes walk from the D2 sorting office.

In fact it's reguarly taken 2 weeks to receive stuff from the UK, inc. a wifi router I'm currently waiting for. will be 2 weeks on Monday.

Benster

And "Next Day" delivery might as well be renamed "Sometime..."

Standards are falling in the north, where I'm from, but they have a long way to go before they get to the current standard here...

RuggieBear

vibe666 wrote:

And I live 5 minutes walk from the D2 sorting office.

Where is that?

robinph

I got a letter delivered from the UK last friday, 28/10, that was postmarked on the 26/09!!!

Thing is that they can do things quicker when they put their minds to it, as I had another letter from the UK arrive on wednesday that was postmarked on monday. I'd already been emailing back apologising for not replying sooner, before I noticed that it had only taken a couple of days to get here though.

eth0_

robinph wrote:

I got a letter delivered from the UK last friday, 28/10, that was postmarked on the 26/09!!!

A guy I work with is waiting on a book Amazon dispatched from the UK on October 18! He rang An Post customer services...and they say it's Royal Mail who are causing the delays! Bullsh*t!

I ordered some stuff from Amazon and had it sent to my sisters house in Belfast and it arrived the DAY AFTER it was dispatched.

I've ordered from play.com twice in the past two months and each time it's taken 2-3 weeks to get to Dublin.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I was in the GPO yesterday mailing some parcels and they were laughing and joking about going on strike. Why are they even striking? I'd love a job where I can do f*ck all work and get paid above the national average!

robinph

eth0_ wrote:

A guy I work with is waiting on a book Amazon dispatched from the UK on October 18! He rang An Post customer services...and they say it's Royal Mail who are causing the delays! Bullsh*t!

If its Royal Mail causing the delays then how would they explain two letters posted on the same day from Dublin to Galway, one took 4 days and the other took 2 weeks?

That could clearly only be the fault of Royal Mail and not An Post.

Rabies

eth0_ wrote:

A guy I work with is waiting on a book Amazon dispatched from the UK on October 18! He rang An Post customer services...and they say it's Royal Mail who are causing the delays! Bullsh*t!

...

I've ordered from play.com twice in the past two months and each time it's taken 2-3 weeks to get to Dublin.

I ordered a dvd from play at the start of september. 4 weeks later it still wasn't delivered. Play emailed me, Royal Mail never sent the dvd out of england. They held it for a while and sent it back to Play.
Made the same order with the Sendit the next day. Myh dvd arrived in the door 7 days later

Ardent

Here's a good one, kind of related:

I sent a letter to myself by registered post (don't ask). A couple of days later, after I came home from work, I found a leaflet stuck in my letterbox instructing me to collect at my nearest post office. Only got a chance to go down a couple of weeks later and yer man told me they didn't have it because they don't keep stuff after 2 weeks or so.

I asked him where it might be now and he told me it would have been sent back to the sender. I told him I was the sender and that really f**ked him up! He couldn't tell me where it might be now and gave me a number to ring. Thank God it wasn't that important!

cormie

Ardent wrote:

Here's a good one, kind of related:

I sent a letter to myself by registered post (don't ask). A couple of days later, after I came home from work, I found a leaflet stuck in my letterbox instructing me to collect at my nearest post office. Only got a chance to go down a couple of weeks later and yer man told me they didn't have it because they don't keep stuff after 2 weeks or so.

I asked him where it might be now and he told me it would have been sent back to the sender. I told him I was the sender and that really f**ked him up! He couldn't tell me where it might be now and gave me a number to ring. Thank God it wasn't that important!

Trying to copyright something by any chance?

Enough of the bad stories, you're making me worried, I've 3 things on order from the UK, 3 seperate senders and one from the US too.

segadreamcast

eth0_ wrote:

A guy I work with is waiting on a book Amazon dispatched from the UK on October 18! He rang An Post customer services...and they say it's Royal Mail who are causing the delays! Bullsh*t!

I ordered some stuff from Amazon and had it sent to my sisters house in Belfast and it arrived the DAY AFTER it was dispatched.

I've ordered from play.com twice in the past two months and each time it's taken 2-3 weeks to get to Dublin.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I was in the GPO yesterday mailing some parcels and they were laughing and joking about going on strike. Why are they even striking? I'd love a job where I can do f*ck all work and get paid above the national average!

Glad someone else brought this up - I ordered a book on October 15th, still waiting on it! Normally, in all fairness, it arrives within 3 days... however, I'm just pretty disgusted at An Post right now. Fair enough, if you're gonna go on strike, go on strike...but don't screw around with the post for a month before your strike to make it seem as though you're understaffed...

projectmayhem

i'm a regular interweb buyer so i'm all too aware of an posts misgivings. i got 2 books today that were dispatched from amazon about 2 weeks ago. it's a complete and utter joke

jimmycrackcorm

Mossy Monk wrote:

it is a pain in the arse that we get no deliveries on a saturday

Think positive - no bills at the weekend.

Nightwish

in Kilkenny the An Post workers have been demanding a new sorting office, as the one in the town is too cramped and not very accessible, so a new depot was built for them approx 1km from town and they refuse to move into it as they want "disturbance money"

embee

eth0_ wrote:

Why are they even striking? I'd love a job where I can do f*ck all work and get paid above the national average!

Sigh... it would be great if you actually knew what really goes on in An Post, instead of spouting this sort of nonsense.

My dads a postman. Has been for the past 26 years. He deserves to be paid a decent wage for what is hard work. Its not "f*ck all" work whatsoever. He works 8am to 6pm five, sometimes six days of the week. They're understaffed, but An Post have a recruitment freeze in place. He is currently doing the work of 2 postmen on his own. His day is a hectic one. He sorts all morning (there are supposed to be sorting staff but again, they're severely understaffed), then he delivers parcels to businesses in town (he is a rural postman, and his round is exclusively in the countryside, but again, they haven't enough staff). Then he goes on his round. Doesn't get out on his round until after midday. His rounds a pretty long one, has been made longer by An Post in the last year (again, short staffed). He finishes at 6pm everyday. He doesn't have time to take a lunchbreak, instead he pulls his van over halfway through his round and takes a 10-15 minute break to eat his lunch. If he were to take a lunchbreak, he'd be even later finishing in the day. An Post expect their employees to do overtime, but don't want to pay them to do it. In addition, whilst after the last dispute which took place they were promised that they would be paid backdated cost of living increases (which they're entitled to, everyone else in the country gets them), An Post still haven't budged on this. They now want to change their rosters to bring them in line with more modern practices, but are refusing to pay them what they are entitled to be paid. Postal workers in Dublin earlier in the year received letters saying that their jobs had been relocated to the Midlands, effective 1 week from the issue date of the letter. If they weren't prepared to uproot their whole families to the Midlands, they would find themselves seeking alternative employment.

They're striking because An Post refuse to pay them under the Sustaining Progress Agreement. Those pay increases are mandatory, but they have been waiting over 2 years to get them with no joy. Their argument is - why should they agree to new working rosters when their employer won't pay them a mandatory pay increase?

Nephew

vibe666 wrote:

for a nice comparison, a friend of mine posted a CD to me from a village post office in rural Thailand last year. At the same time, he posted another CD to another mate in Cambridge.

Thailand to Cambridge = 3 days.

Thailand to Dublin = 16 days.

How's that for service?

And I live 5 minutes walk from the D2 sorting office.

In fact it's reguarly taken 2 weeks to receive stuff from the UK, inc. a wifi router I'm currently waiting for. will be 2 weeks on Monday.

my friend went to india when we were in 4th,5th or 6th class (i'm guessing it was sometime between 1994 -1997) and sent me a postcard. it took a while to reach ireland but it eventually got here, in january 2005.

Rabies

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Think positive - no bills at the weekend.

What about the business people that need cheques to arrive in the post every day to pay bills

cormie

Just got an A4 sized letter through the post that was sent from England. It wasn't any of the 3 items I ordered from England online at the weekend, which were posted on Monday, it was something else which was posted on Wednesday:rolleyes: I really don't want to be waiting around much longer as one of the things was bough from a non established Ebay seller.

godtabh

embee wrote:

Sigh... it would be great if you actually knew what really goes on in An Post, instead of spouting this sort of nonsense.
QUOTE]

That maybe so but proganda is spouted by bought sides so its hard to tell fact from fiction.

embee wrote:

He works 8am to 6pm five, sometimes six days of the week.

There is no such thing as a 9-5 job any more. Ask an Engineer on site how many hours he/she works. Most if any wouldn't get over time. I've worked jobs were I worked 12 hours a day for weeks on end to meet deadlines.

embee wrote:

They're striking because An Post refuse to pay them under the Sustaining Progress Agreement. Those pay increases are mandatory, but they have been waiting over 2 years to get them with no joy. Their argument is - why should they agree to new working rosters when their employer won't pay them a mandatory pay increase?

The pay increase isn't mandatory. It can be refused under the Sustaining Progress Agreement if certain targets for work ouput arent reached. An Post say there arent. I wont get a pay rise for doing the same job. If I increase productivity etc then my work will be rewarded. As many people have said An Post provides a poor service. Why should poor service be rewarded?

I personally think the unions have got to powerfully arent relevent in this day and age. I havent been in a union in years and will never join one again. But unions put ideas in peoples heads things get out of control. Irish Rail DART drivers threaten to strike over longer DARTs unless they are paid more. Nonsense. An Post workers wont move to better sorting office unless they are paid. Nonsense. ESB workers paid to work in a non working power station. Nonsense. Unions are to militant and they are the blame.

Try working in the private sector with this attidtude and see how far you get.

Improve the service expect a pay rise.

No improvement no pay rise.

RedorDead

I cant see there being any sympathy with An Post workers from the general public for a strike. There may be a quick about-turn just like the dart drivers when they realised they had zero support outside of their union.

skywalker

If strike action goes ahead will post offices still be open this afternoon? Also I know theres a post office on Baggot st but Im not sure where exactly, can anyone point me in the right direction?

ballooba

embee wrote:

Sigh... it would be great if you actually knew what really goes on in An Post, instead of spouting this sort of nonsense.

My dads a postman. Has been for the past 26 years. He deserves to be paid a decent wage for what is hard work. Its not "f*ck all" work whatsoever. He works 8am to 6pm five, sometimes six days of the week.

If I knew your dad I'd welcome hime to the real world. I'm quite junior in my work so I am not yet expected to work those kind of hours but most of the people around me do.

embee wrote:

They're understaffed, but An Post have a recruitment freeze in place. He is currently doing the work of 2 postmen on his own. His day is a hectic one. He sorts all morning (there are supposed to be sorting staff but again, they're severely understaffed), then he delivers parcels to businesses in town (he is a rural postman, and his round is exclusively in the countryside, but again, they haven't enough staff).

The work of two men by An Post standards or by the standards of the workload most people have?

embee wrote:

Postal workers in Dublin earlier in the year received letters saying that their jobs had been relocated to the Midlands, effective 1 week from the issue date of the letter. If they weren't prepared to uproot their whole families to the Midlands, they would find themselves seeking alternative employment.

I wish they would do this more. It would be a great way of getting rid of some An Post people. It is notoriously difficult to sack civil servants. Also another thing you mentioned if An Post workers feel they're getting such a bad deal then why can't they do like the rest of us and change jobs. DHL, TNT, Interlink, GLS. Oh wait, then they would have to do real work.

Tazz T

I recently received a cheque that had been posted a year ago from a business ten minutes walk away that I did some work for.

The abuse I gave them last year when they said they'd already posted it. :rolleyes:

It had been posted when they said it was. Another time someone phoned me saying they had found a open letter in the street with a cheque in it made out to me.

Do postmen just throw around the letters they don't feel like posting?:eek:

vibe666

RuggieBear wrote:

Where is that?

here on Cardiff St. (spot the little green vans!)

bounty

let them go on strike, who ****ing cares? they are crap anyway

then, while they strike, abolish anpost's monopoly, and create a rival private sector post service, no more pesky union bull****

Shabadu

It's funny how it's always the ones who haven't got a clue that are the first to witter on about the postmen: "dey do no werk whatresoever and me mail is alwayes laet"

Did you ever stop to consider that the reason your mail is late is because they are hideously understaffed, and the reason they are paid above the national average is because they are doing the work of two people?

Also, the concept of a National Average wage is spurious when you consider how many lackeys on minimum wage are factored in. People working in the Postal service tend to be lifers, and career people get paid more.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Wow, being a postman sounds cool, where do I sign up? (seriously)

ballooba

Shabadu wrote:

Also, the concept of a National Average wage is spurious when you consider how many lackeys on minimum wage are factored in. People working in the Postal service tend to be lifers, and career people get paid more.

That is bullshít. The concept of lifers doesn't exist anywhere else any more because people have to constantly compete and progress in their jobs to progress. Often the only way to do this is to move around. In An Post people don't have to move around because they will progress anyway just because they have been there longer.

Also regardless of the average industrial wage, postal workers are way better paid than most other categories of worker there:

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/earnings_dist_business.htm

Tazz T

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Wow, being a postman sounds cool, where do I sign up? (seriously)

I spent a summer working as a postman in the UK - it was easily the most enjoyable job while being a student.

For those who aren't career minded, it is an relatively easy job that's well paid.

Matches

I was listening to the radio on the way to work this morning and they said that one postie had earnt nealy €86,000 this year including his OT. I am in the wrong job.....

Slutmonkey57b

While I'm no fan of unions it's interesting to see just how stupid a lot of young career-minded people are in being hostile to the whole idea of unions. commenting "see how far that attitude gets you in the private sector" is moronic. What you're actually saying is "Hey! My employer abuses the **** out of me, breaks the labour laws, destroys my quality of life and I LOVE IT!" Anyone who regards having to work 10-12 hours a day, with unpaid overtime as a good thing is an absolute moron. There are laws in place to protect workers for a reason, and the reason is that a lot of employers would sell your organs on ebay if they thought they could get away with it. Unions don't help matters with some of the battles they choose to fight, but trust me, when you're older and you're relying on your job to pay for kids and houses you wont be patting yourself on the back boasting about how you worked 70 hours this week without getting paid for it, unlike those stupid trolls in the public sector.

Slutmonkey57b

ballooba wrote:

If I knew your dad I'd welcome hime to the real world. I'm quite junior in my work so I am not yet expected to work those kind of hours but most of the people around me do.

There's a big difference between working long hours because you choose to, and working long hours because you're forced to under threat of being sacked. And there's a big difference between being sacked as a junior office worker at the age of 19 when you haven't a care in the world and being sacked as a father of kids after 26 years in the same job.

The work of two men by An Post standards or by the standards of the workload most people have?

I've never worked in the post office in my life. However, even I can see one obvious point you've overlooked: Ever walked miles toting a large heavy shoulder bag around for hours every day? Being a student doesn't count by the way, a)your bag isn't heavy; b) you get to put it down whenever you want.

I wish they would do this more. It would be a great way of getting rid of some An Post people. It is notoriously difficult to sack civil servants. Also another thing you mentioned if An Post workers feel they're getting such a bad deal then why can't they do like the rest of us and change jobs. DHL, TNT, Interlink, GLS. Oh wait, then they would have to do real work.

Why would you support an employer using scare tactics on its workforce? You're a worker aren't you? Why would you want your employer to threaten you, overwork you, and illegally underpay you? And what makes you think that the courior companies would be better places to work? Do they pay well? Do they look after their employees? Or do you think that postal workers should be forced to change jobs regardless of whether it's necessary or not? Do you have any clue what you're talking about?

DonkeyStyle \o/

Well said Slutmonkey.
You spend such a large chunk of your life working, it seems ironic to spend so much time in a job that abuses you in order to increase your quality of life outside of work. :eek:
tbh I've got cold feet about sitting cooked up in a server room 12 hours a day for the next 40 years. :eek:

Slutmonkey57b

ballooba wrote:

That is bullshít. The concept of lifers doesn't exist anywhere else any more because people have to constantly compete and progress in their jobs to progress. Often the only way to do this is to move around. In An Post people don't have to move around because they will progress anyway just because they have been there longer.

So people who have the freedom to drop their life at the whim of their employer and move around should be rewarded, and people who have difficulty dropping everything and upping sticks should be penalised? Or sacked? Or prevented from getting promoted?
What exactly is the _necessity_ behind An Post demanding that its employees relocate to the midlands? Do you know?
Why shouldn't long term employees be rewarded for long term service? Don't you know that 90% of the use an employer gets from their staff is their on-the-job knowledge?

Also, in your own job, please tell me what exactly prevents your employer from relocating your job to Asia where wages are 10 times lower, people are better educated, and will happily give up all their rights for nothing? And why should they continue to employ you at all? Are you really that leet that they can't exist without you?

Shabadu

ballooba wrote:

That is bullshít. The concept of lifers doesn't exist anywhere else any more because people have to constantly compete and progress in their jobs to progress. Often the only way to do this is to move around. In An Post people don't have to move around because they will progress anyway just because they have been there longer.

Also regardless of the average industrial wage, postal workers are way better paid than most other categories of worker there:

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/earnings_dist_business.htm

Wow- the way you just reiterated your first post without adding anything new is teh KEWL!!1 I'll do the same thing now, then the circle will be complete:

Why do they get paid more? Do you know anyone in the Postal Service? Do you pay *any* attention to your sig?

Or are you just another person pretending to know what you're talking about?


P.S.: Slutmonkey for the win.

ballooba

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

What exactly is the _necessity_ behind An Post demanding that its employees relocate to the midlands? Do you know?

They most likely didn't want them to move and were merely trying to get rid of them.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Why shouldn't long term employees be rewarded for long term service? Don't you know that 90% of the use an employer gets from their staff is their on-the-job knowledge?

You shouldn't be rewarded based on the time you have been on the job. You should be promoted and paid based on the wealth that you produce and how hard you work.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Also, in your own job, please tell me what exactly prevents your employer from relocating your job to Asia where wages are 10 times lower, people are better educated, and will happily give up all their rights for nothing? And why should they continue to employ you at all? Are you really that leet that they can't exist without you?

Because my employers require a local presence and have just bought the company for exactly that purpose. I have spent a lot of time working to ensure that I am properly educated and can compete with Asian people. They could possibly exist without me but not without my team. I work hard to ensure that I am an important part of that team.

RuggieBear

skywalker wrote:

If strike action goes ahead will post offices still be open this afternoon? Also I know theres a post office on Baggot st but Im not sure where exactly, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Un upper baggot street inside a newsagent's called Murphy's/Murrays (i can never remember which), right at the back. Handy as it is also open at lunchtime.


Oh...thsnks vibe

ballooba

Shabadu wrote:

Wow- the way you just reiterated your first post without adding anything new is teh KEWL!!1 I'll do the same thing now, then the circle will be complete:

Why do they get paid more? Do you know anyone in the Postal Service? Do you pay *any* attention to your sig?

Or are you just another person pretending to know what you're talking about?


P.S.: Slutmonkey for the win.

Actually I was pointing out to that person that it is not just the average indutrial wage which the Postal Workers get better than. I don't know anyone in the postal service but I have worked in the Civil Service and I know exactly what it's like.

ballooba

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

I've never worked in the post office in my life. However, even I can see one obvious point you've overlooked: Ever walked miles toting a large heavy shoulder bag around for hours every day? Being a student doesn't count by the way, a)your bag isn't heavy; b) you get to put it down whenever you want.

They have bikes and cars available to them.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

And what makes you think that the courior companies would be better places to work? Do they pay well? Do they look after their employees? Or do you think that postal workers should be forced to change jobs regardless of whether it's necessary or not? Do you have any clue what you're talking about?

An Post is essentially a courier company. Why shouldn't postal workers have to be competitive with respect to the private sector workers. Postal workers aren't being to forced to change jobs. They are just not getting the extraordinary pay rises they are asking for. If they feel they are getting a bad deal then they should have to find a better one or shut up. I for one will not be paying any increases in postal rates I will just use a courier company and get proper service. If postal workers think that the company is going to survive keeping them in the lifestyles that they are accustomed to then they need a wakeup call. Hopefully the governement will give them one.

Slutmonkey57b

ballooba wrote:

They most likely didn't want them to move and were merely trying to get rid of them.

Again, why is that a good thing? Why is that something you would support? Why is it ok for an employer to use scare tactics on people with families who have done nothing wrong? It's not like the employees are asking for money that the Post office hasn't agreed to give them, is it? If there is someone "at fault" for high wages in the post office, it is the managers who agreed to the wage levels in the first place, isn't it? So why blame the workforce?

You shouldn't be rewarded based on the time you have been on the job. You should be promoted and paid based on the wealth that you produce and how hard you work.

Give me a quantifiable analysis of any job that allows me as a manager to predict the "wealth" that the majority of jobs generate and i'll give you a nobel prize for economics. Judging a job's worth by its wealth generation is only applicable to sales. Since a postman doesn't sell anything I'd love to hear exactly how you propose to measure their worth to the employer by wealth generation. I'd love to hear how you'd apply it to 90% of office workers too, most of whom work as part of teams with Dilbert-inspiring mission statements of baffling obscurity.

Because my employers require a local presence and have just bought the company for exactly that purpose. I have spent a lot of time working to ensure that I am properly educated and can compete with Asian people. They could possibly exist without me but not without my team. I work hard to ensure that I am an important part of that team.

You can't compete with Asian people on cost. You can't compete with eastern european people on cost. I have had (i'm not joking here) fully qualified electrical engineers who speak 3 languages applying for jobs as floor moppers. Irish people don't even come close to the educational standards of the eastern europeans and Asians.
And there's a big difference between your team being worth something and you being worth something. As for local presence, the company is the local presence they have bought, not you. They can staff that company with whoever they want and still have a local presence - just look at the amount of foreign nationals working in shops, hotels, bars, restaurants....

I'm not bashing you, or your job directly here. I'm trying to make the point to you that when worker A spends his time supporting Employer Z's efforts to destroy worker B's rights, he's only shooting himself in the foot in the long run. We in western europe have the highest wages, the best social benefits, and the best worker protection rights in the world. You, the workers, have these rights because people before you stood up and fought for them. Throwing them away because a modern employer is persuading you that they are "hurting" the company is just plain moronic.

Slutmonkey57b

ballooba wrote:

They have bikes and cars available to them.

And riding a bike laden with postbags is no effort at all, right?

An Post is essentially a courier company. Why shouldn't postal workers have to be competitive with respect to the private sector workers.

Better question - why should private sector workers be given worse, or illegal conditions, than public sector ones? And why should the logic of "drive everyone down to the base level" be one that workers should support?

Postal workers aren't being to forced to change jobs. They are just not getting the extraordinary pay rises they are asking for. If they feel they are getting a bad deal then they should have to find a better one or shut up.

Did you even read your _own_ previous posts? The post office is doing exactly that - telling workers they have to move or be sacked. And they're not asking for an extraordinary pay rise - they're asking for the pay rise the management agreed to give them to actually be paid.

skywalker

RuggieBear wrote:

Un upper baggot street inside a newsagent's called Murphy's/Murrays (i can never remember which), right at the back. Handy as it is also open at lunchtime.


Oh...thsnks vibe

Thanks Ruggie. Thats near the bridge/canal isnt it?

Padraig Mor

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

And they're not asking for an extraordinary pay rise - they're asking for the pay rise the management agreed to give them to actually be paid.

AFAIK management agreed to pay them more on condition that they change work practices. In time honoured union style however, "de workers" are now refusing to do what they agreed but are still demanding more money (am I correct in saying 25% extra?!), i.e. get money now and then demand more money in future for changes they had already agreed to.

RuggieBear

skywalker wrote:

Thanks Ruggie. Thats near the bridge/canal isnt it?

yep..heading from town, it's over the bridge on the right

Slutmonkey57b

Without knowing what the changed work practices are I wouldn't comment on what "de workers" are refusing to do. And if the company is witholding a legally entitled wage increase from its workers on the basis that work practices must change, then who is at fault?

Basically,
a) workers are legally entitled to a wage increase as of 2 years ago
b) a further increase was negotiated if work practices chaged
c) The first increase is being witheld because the conditions of the second increase have not been met.

Who is at fault? Why is it "de workers" and not "de management" who are ****ing it up? And again, why should workers side with management to destroy another worker's quality of life?

If, as a manager, I found that employees had signed up to a changed job description and then refused to fill that description, I'd be quite happy to press it as a disciplinary matter. So why haven't the management done that if the situation is as simple as "de workers" not doing their jobs?

godtabh

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

While I'm no fan of unions it's interesting to see just how stupid a lot of young career-minded people are in being hostile to the whole idea of unions. commenting "see how far that attitude gets you in the private sector" is moronic. What you're actually saying is "Hey! My employer abuses the **** out of me, breaks the labour laws, destroys my quality of life and I LOVE IT!" Anyone who regards having to work 10-12 hours a day, with unpaid overtime as a good thing is an absolute moron. There are laws in place to protect workers for a reason, and the reason is that a lot of employers would sell your organs on ebay if they thought they could get away with it. Unions don't help matters with some of the battles they choose to fight, but trust me, when you're older and you're relying on your job to pay for kids and houses you wont be patting yourself on the back boasting about how you worked 70 hours this week without getting paid for it, unlike those stupid trolls in the public sector.

Since this seems to be aimed at me I'll try and defend my point.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

While I'm no fan of unions it's interesting to see just how stupid a lot of young career-minded people are in being hostile to the whole idea of unions. commenting "see how far that attitude gets you in the private sector" is moronic.

I'm a engineer. Just say every day I desgin 5m long beams then the boss asks me to desgin a 10m one. From the union behind the DART potential strike was reprsenting me they'd ask for more money and I'd be shown the door.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

What you're actually saying is "Hey! My employer abuses the **** out of me, breaks the labour laws, destroys my quality of life and I LOVE IT!"

How am I saying this? Just because I'm not in a union doesnt mean I let my employer walk all over me.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Anyone who regards having to work 10-12 hours a day, with unpaid overtime as a good thing is an absolute moron.

When I worked 10-12 hour days working with a Plumber I got over time. Now when I do it I dont. I get me salary and am happy with that. Since I dont get over time I get looked after with my Christmas bonus. The harder I work the larger it is.

It seems to be the norm these days for profesional jobs such as engineers accountants to no over time where as skilled labour such as electricans, plumbers etc get paid over time.

I dont have to do the over time. Its not forced but I do it anyway.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

you worked 70 hours this week without getting paid for it, unlike those stupid trolls in the public sector.

Any one who works 70 hours per week are more than likely to be in higher postions in their companies and as a result their salaries will reflect that and the fact they may have to work long hours.

I work alot with public sector people and know that some do a fantatic job while others are just there to get a weekly paycheck and 40 years down the line a pension. T

The simple fact is that the public sector isnt run like it is a going concern. Can you say An Post, Irish Rail, the county councils to name but a few give us value for money?

godtabh

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

If, as a manager, I found that employees had signed up to a changed job description and then refused to fill that description, I'd be quite happy to press it as a disciplinary matter. So why haven't the management done that if the situation is as simple as "de workers" not doing their jobs?

If you disciplined one person there would be war and people would strike.
(Its happened before I think it was last Xmas in An Post)
You disciplin every one who works for you?