Unsolicited SMS issues

Bulmers

Hi all,

I am looking for some opinion on the following issue, i'll try to keep it as quick as possible.

My father has been hit with bills from a well known mobile company for receiving premium rate txts. Basically the bill is for over €400 for two months, normally the bill is €30-40/month. What has happened is a suscription has been made from my dads phone to a premium service. Over the two month perios over 500 txts were sent from this premium service to the phone and charged to the account, hence big bill. This started happening after the 1st month, my father called them saying he didn;t know what these txts etc were, bear in mind my father is 60, he just figured out txting in the summer and i guess he entered some competition etc and inadvertently ended up suscribed to a service. He has tried to send the "stop" txt but this has not stopped the txts.

He did call them about it several times querying this but this didn't seem to sort it out. Now the mobile operator are demanding this be paid as they are saying this is a 3rd party operating on their network and nothing to do with them, even though this particular "content provider" is coming from the particular network in question.

I personally feel he should not be liable for these costs, i think that they should have more security/control on their network to stop this happening, i.e. one nite there was 50 txts sent in 2 mins,at a cost of €1.20 a txt, that's €60 on the acc, why would someone pay for this plus my father said he did not receive that many txts, let's face it you'd remember something like that happening.

I know some people are going to think "tough" but i personally think that this should not be able to happen and it's the operators responsibility to make sure their network is not being misused as they are the ones who own it ultimately.

dahamsta

If he subscribed to the service, even if by accident, he's at least partly liable. If he legitimately tried to cancel, they're partly liable too. I'd suggest getting in touch with RegTel to explain the situation and ask his rights. However it's probably a good idea to try to negotiate a settlement with the operator first, if only to be able to tell RegTel that you've made that effort. The operator will probably tell you to feck off, but you never know.

HTH,
adam

Bulmers

cheers, thanks for the reply.

I do agree that if he did suscribe, even by accident that he is reliable,but what i dont agree with is €50 of txts in 10 mins, i mean that's not even a service, it's a blatant scam, if it was one or two a day, fair enough but that many?

I am going to try to talk to them about it and see what they say. I was speaking to a mate of mine who works in this operators shop and he told me that this is happening everyday now, people are coming in cancelling accs because of this sms txt issue so there seems to be a problem.

The thing that is annoying me is that it's basically free access to your account, you would not let anyone access your bank account to spend your money so how come it is so easy for people to access your mobile account and spend your money?


thanks

dahamsta

Oh, there's no doubt it's a scam and you could probably get a full refund if you took it to court, but there's likely no precedent for this sort of thing, so the case would take months or years. Which I doubt you want to put you dad through. And there's a fair chance the company responsible would fly the coop in the meantime anyway -- a good number of premium operators are recidivist degenerates when you get right down to it.

Here's what I do, which might not be what you should do. In fact it probably isn't, but anyway...

Start off with the premium operator and tell them you'll pay an amount you genuinely feel is fair. They'll likely refuse at which point you should drop them completely and move to the mobile operator, with the same offer. They'll refuse too, to which you should respond that it's obvious to you and anyone you've discussed this with that their network is obviously being used in an abusive fashion by their partner, and you'd prefer to clear this up without a big fuss. Obviously this is a threat, but their behaviour is cutting pretty close to racketeering, so sauce for the goose...

If they try to settle at this point you can drag it out for a little while, because you'll be able to beat them down from their fist offer. If they don't, it's time to go to RegTel, see how they perform.

adam

whiskeyman

who is the content provider here?
I know a lot of them on TV (jamster etc..) state the number of texts per month you get... I'm pretty sure this is required on the ads.
If they have broken it, you may get them on false advertising and would have a good case to reduce the bill.

Another thing - if it was activited from an original unsolicitated txt, I'm pretty sure the contact could be deemed void as there have alreayd been many actions against such spam.

Bulmers

I'm not sure who the content provider is, the numbers are on the bill which by the way are the operators prefix aswell. They wont talk to me too much about it as only my dad is registered on the account but he can call them and request me to be registered user so they will talk to me then.

I understand the fact that most of the operator adds on tv state in the small print how many txts you will get / month and the cost,and this is fine, but i'm looking at the bill here and in a period from 21:50 to 22:00, i.e. ten mins, there are 56 txts at €1.20 each.

I was reading the regtel site and it states aswell that stop codes should work, speaking with my dad, he said these made it worse, he seemed to get more sms crap through.

Suppose it's like the case with spam emails, reply to this to unsubscribe and you get 20 more, difference is when this happens in sms world, you pay

ck1

This happened to a friend of mine some months back, grant it not to the extent it is happening your father and I think it is a disgrace. He reported it to the police and the next day he got a call from the fraud squad. Check out the following Oasis link, it gives details to laws governing this.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/public_utilities/telecommunications/dealing_with_unsolicited_or_offensive_email.html

Bulmers

to check out who owns there short codes,txting to these is usually cheap, i.e. 30c or so,this is the 1st reply stage, it's what they get you to is the problem from what i can see.

All the txts for 1.50 are coming from a 08x long code number,same as a normal mob number so these must be assigned by the operator

http://www.comreg.ie/numbering/num_sms_search.asp

Just read an article that said Voda UK were going to close it's premium txt service as was causing customers too much hassle and people were simply walking away from their accounts.

http://www.zamano.com/press/newsItem.asp?newsId=71

Seems the main thing people do is walk away from the accounts

BrianD

RegTel is usually the last resort for a compaint. However, they are very helpful and may be able to advise you on how to approach and resolve the dispute. It's unbelievable that your mobile co does not have somebody available to serve their customers on these matters. You should also try ComReg as they may need to be invoved.

It's odd that he should get some many text from a long code in such a short space of time. Does he switch his phone off for periods of time?
What sort of service is it?

tiadesai

hello tell your fahter to change the number or the servoce if the service is not listening to you
also tell them that you will go to the consumer court if the problem is not solved
maybe the fear of the court will make them listen

Bulmers

This is an absolute joke, just got off phone to the operator now.

Basically they wash their hands of this, what i was basically told for snotty girl in collections " this is nothing to do with us,the bill needs to be paid and if it's not paid,legal proceedings will be issued"

I called back operator and spoke to another "assistant". He said that they have to allow these operators onto their networks by law, that it is nothing to do with them, they just need the money. So i asked him then how come i cant set up a company that offers voice and txt services on their network...they wouldn't allow that one as quick.

I said to him my father has been a contract customer for 7 years, can you not be more helpful on this issue? Again i was told it's nothing to do with them, they gave me the number of one of the operators, turned out to be Opera telecom, i called the number and when you call, the only option on the phone is to unsuscribe to a service, no option to speak to a customer service agent.

I called mobile operator back again and explained all this to them again, and they said, again, nothing to do with them and that i should call Regtel. I asked the assistant to speak to a manager in there and they said no, there's no point.

This is unreal,operator dont want to know, all they want is the money, end of...i said to them do you not think this is an abuse of their network and is their any vetting of these companies, assistant said "this is not an accurate assesment of what is happening"

I asked him what did he think of a company sending 50 txts at €1/txt in the space of ten mins, does he not think it's a scam? He said it depends on the service, so i asked him what possible service could do something like that? No answer...

I'm just going to have to go to Regtel as i'm getting zero satisfaction from o2 (whoops, did i say that out loud.....)

Answer to query above, no my dad would not have his phone turned off that much, definitely not at the times the txts came anyway.

These are the times i think when you see what companies are really like re customer service. Just hope now that Regtel can be more help as it is not going to go anywhere with o2, cant even get in touch with service provider as the number they give you doesn't even get you to a customer service agent.

dahamsta

Sorry, who exactly is billing you here? The operator or the "service" provider? If it's the operator don't take any crap for them, your contract is with them, not the service provider, and you're perfectly entitled to talk to a supervisor.

You're probably better off talking to the boss though. Top down approach.

adam

Bulmers

From what i was told, the service provider bills the operator who then bill the person.

I said to them since it's nothing to do with o2, he'd pay the normal costs on the account, i.e calls etc he made but they said no, that he owes them the full amount.

So on one hand they say they have nothing to do with the service provider and on the other one they want the money for it. Doesn't make sense to me to be honest but that was what i was told.

I agree i should have been entitled to talk to someone more senior etc but didn't happen. Have given up calling them now, will try regtel, hope they can help.

Dub13

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/11/01/story228124.html

New code of practice imposed on ringtone providers
01/11/2005 - 08:23:03

A new code of practice governing the providers of mobile phone services like ringtones and SMS competitions is due to come into force today.

The code has been put together by Regtel, the body that oversees and regulates premium-rate telecommunications in Ireland.

It is designed to protect children from being charged large sums of money for ringtones and other similar services.

Some companies have been accused of preying on children to get them to sign up for these services without fully explaining the cost.

Research has found that Irish people, particularly teenagers, spend €1.3m on ringtones every year.

BrianD

Bulmers wrote:

This is an absolute joke, just got off phone to the operator now.

Basically they wash their hands of this, what i was basically told for snotty girl in collections " this is nothing to do with us,the bill needs to be paid and if it's not paid,legal proceedings will be issued"

I called back operator and spoke to another "assistant". He said that they have to allow these operators onto their networks by law, that it is nothing to do with them, they just need the money. So i asked him then how come i cant set up a company that offers voice and txt services on their network...they wouldn't allow that one as quick.

I said to him my father has been a contract customer for 7 years, can you not be more helpful on this issue? Again i was told it's nothing to do with them, they gave me the number of one of the operators, turned out to be Opera telecom, i called the number and when you call, the only option on the phone is to unsuscribe to a service, no option to speak to a customer service agent.

I called mobile operator back again and explained all this to them again, and they said, again, nothing to do with them and that i should call Regtel. I asked the assistant to speak to a manager in there and they said no, there's no point.

This is unreal,operator dont want to know, all they want is the money, end of...i said to them do you not think this is an abuse of their network and is their any vetting of these companies, assistant said "this is not an accurate assesment of what is happening"

I asked him what did he think of a company sending 50 txts at €1/txt in the space of ten mins, does he not think it's a scam? He said it depends on the service, so i asked him what possible service could do something like that? No answer...

I'm just going to have to go to Regtel as i'm getting zero satisfaction from o2 (whoops, did i say that out loud.....)

Answer to query above, no my dad would not have his phone turned off that much, definitely not at the times the txts came anyway.

These are the times i think when you see what companies are really like re customer service. Just hope now that Regtel can be more help as it is not going to go anywhere with o2, cant even get in touch with service provider as the number they give you doesn't even get you to a customer service agent.

They seem to have no problem billing you on behalf of these third party operators so O2 is hardly helpless in this situation. In fact these third parties arte bring O2 into disrepute with some of these customers so I am very surprised that they are not more helpful in their half hearted response.

Could I suggest the following. Do you have a record of the date he tried to unsubscribe? Pay all the normal calls and sms's from that date but do not pay the premium SMS's. Write to O2 and RegTel and point out the following:

-The premium content provider who you have allowed on your operator has not allowed you unsubscribe as per regtel regulations.
- You have reason to believe that they are 'loading' your account i.e 10 messages in a short space of time.
- The billing does indicates that the call is originating from a long code (normal number) and not a premium shortcode i.e 5XXXX as required.

The ball is now in their court. RegTel apparently are good at sorting this out. BTW I'd keep everything in writing from now on.