All Blacks

streaker

You can vent your frustration by emailing Tana Umaga here:

http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=emailTeam

It probably won't get to him, but its quiet refreshing to send him a few
"so you are not coming to Dublin? Chicken" messages!!

Amz

Why would you waste your time?

Liam90

im originally from New Zealand and i don't see the big deal with the tackle it looked fine to me.

and the All Black squad has been announced and to be honest i think NZ will be way to powerful for Ireland.

http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=displayNews&newsArticle=2801
McAllister and Somerville in serious doubt

Jilm

Liam90 wrote:

im originally from New Zealand and i don't see the big deal with the tackle it looked fine to me.

Have a gander at the newly released amateur video of the tackle, it's being shown on Sky news sport today. You might change your opinion.

I agree with Stu Wilson on this one, Tana should have at least apologised for the tackle.

daveirl

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Jilm

daveirl wrote:

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Its on Sky Sports site here, needs flash to run.

daveirl

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MrJoeSoap

Just saw it on SkySports from the new angle. Absolutely disgraceful tackle.

daveirl

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Jim10000

I can't view Sky Sports on line because I'm outside of the U.K. and Ireland. Does anyone know where else it can be seen?
Cheers.

vorbis

****ing disgraceful tackle. Those two scumbags should at least serve lengthy bans. I'm struggling to remember another match where player(s) so deliberatly tried to maim an opponent.

Hippo

Liam 90 are you having a laugh? I used to respect Tana Umaga...

Steffano2002

Liam90 wrote:

im originally from New Zealand and i don't see the big deal with the tackle it looked fine to me.

So there's no big deal to spear tackle a player in a ruck, from the side, when the ball has been out for 5 seconds and the line ref is shouting "Let him go! Let him go!"? Idiot...

Mungaman

Don't want to mention the tackle by Darcy on Rua Ti Poki lads?

Liam90

ok i just saw the amateur video, and it did look illegal and maybe should of been banned for the rest of the lions series, but don't you think this is going a little to far im mean it happened four months ago, and we all know why this video has just come out now, to try and stirr up the game on the 12th

vorbis

Darcy's tackle was nothing in comparison to that one. And frankly Liam90 it does gall that some ****ing bollox can deliberately injure one of your best players for six months and get off scot free! btw I'm not using it as an excuse for the lions performance, I blame Woodward wholeheartedly for that!

Liam90

Liam90 wrote:

ok i just saw the amateur video, and it did look illegal and maybe should of been banned for the rest of the lions series, but don't you think this is going a little to far im mean it happened four months ago, and we all know why this video has just come out now, to try and stirr up the game on the 12th

well, if you consider that it's basically yesterday in Brian O'Driscoll's career, i think that it's valid. O'Driscoll hasn't played since has he?

Snickers Man

I think it's a little jerky and unclear, personally.

The original footage that SCW showed the press corps in the summer was much more damning.

MrJoeSoap

Snickers Man wrote:

I think it's a little jerky and unclear, personally.

The original footage that SCW showed the press corps in the summer was much more damning.

I thought the newly released one was much more revealing, especially when seen on tv.

daveirl

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Mungaman

Daves right here were never going to solve it and for the record any Kiwi who tells you that they we're pleased to see BOD go outa the series ain't worth talking to in the first place. I personally can't wait to see the match on the 12th Still no ticket but still trying. I do however think that your going to have your work cut out with the amount of injuries your carrying. Mind you the All Blacks are linig up there top touring 15 for Whales and if they beat them it will put more belife in there bellies. I don't think they will play Tana either in the Ireland match at all.
Any one has a spare ticket let me know.

Trojan

My opinion of New Zealand rugby dropped through the floor as a result of the incident and the subsequent denial that anything had happened.

Before the Lions tour I was really looking forward to NZ's game here in Dublin. Now? Well I'll be stewarding so I'll be going, but probably would watch it on tv otherwise.

I'd love Ireland to win, but don't see that happening. As for NZ, I simply don't have any respect for them any more. I'd rather cheer on South Africa, and that's saying a lot.

Red Soup

Bah, I can't see that SkySports clip of the tackle. It asks me to sign up.

Steffano2002

Trojan wrote:

My opinion of New Zealand rugby dropped through the floor as a result of the incident and the subsequent denial that anything had happened.

Before the Lions tour I was really looking forward to NZ's game here in Dublin. Now? Well I'll be stewarding so I'll be going, but probably would watch it on tv otherwise.

I'd love Ireland to win, but don't see that happening. As for NZ, I simply don't have any respect for them any more. I'd rather cheer on South Africa, and that's saying a lot.

Surprisingly, I share the same opinion (to some extent)...

foxtail

Trojan wrote:

My opinion of New Zealand rugby dropped through the floor as a result of the incident and the subsequent denial that anything had happened.

Before the Lions tour I was really looking forward to NZ's game here in Dublin. Now? Well I'll be stewarding so I'll be going, but probably would watch it on tv otherwise.

I'd love Ireland to win, but don't see that happening. As for NZ, I simply don't have any respect for them any more. I'd rather cheer on South Africa, and that's saying a lot.

Well then obviously your opinion was a bit useless anyway to have 'dropped through the floor' because of this. One illegal tackle outweighs all that the AB's have done for the game?
Trying not to be cynical but I think you're not looking fwd to the game because frankly going by the formbook record scores are a possibility depending on which irish team shows up.
Just watched the Lions-NZ Maori match again yesterday and in that one game Darcy speared Rui Tupoki in a way that was EVERY bit as bad as the BOD spear(he wasn't punished as the poster below said - only conceded a penalty), he kicked a Honeck who was lying outside the ruck (cautioned by the ref) and later pulled a player who was on his feet over by his collar and into the ground facedown in an incident stuart barnes in commentary said was 'shocking'. It happened and is past, no one's opinion of Irish rugby has 'dropped through the floor', including mine.
I'm not saying Umanga's tackle wasn't atrocious but some of the comments on this and other boards are just mass hysteria gone mad. Just buy BOD's book and make it worthwhile, will ya?

Davei141

The reaction of the whole NZ nation of total denial of any wrong doing, thats why its dropped through the floor, you just ignored that bit. I dont see anyone here saying darcy didnt mean to spear him, or that darcy is a nice boy who wouldnt hurt a fly. But i see plenty of that crap from the new zealanders, no sodden remorse. And if darcy dislocated somebodies shoulder with a spear tackle, you better damn well believe that everyone on this board would criticise his actions. But new zealanders just say "it was a bad tackle it happens get over it stop whinging you lost". As if the only reason we are upset is because we lost a god damn lions test, no we are upset because the people who put the our captain and best player out of the game for a few months with an ILLEGAL tackle, were not punished!

Trying not to be cynical but I think you're not looking fwd to the game because frankly going by the formbook record scores are a possibility depending on which irish team shows up.

I wouldnt be so sure about that.

foxtail

For starters sweeping rhetoric like 'the whole NZ nation' in 'total denial' makes my point about hysteria and emotion. The most casual read of NZ sites + newspapers will disprove your statement. It's simply not true, the overwhelming comments that I have seen completely agree with you that it was a dangerous tackle and should have been punished. I ignored nothing. See here for example of NZ press commentary

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=00037B4E-BA6D-1361-B9FD83027AF1010F

Secondly, you're never going to win the Darcy thing. It was equally dangerous. Fullstop. We'll all leave it alone. To say that you'll and everyone on Boards.ie will react at the result of something (dislocated shoulder etc) and not at the cause (the spear tackle) is tunnel vision of the worst kind. It's like saying drunk driving is ok as long as someone's not hurt. I think Boards should criticise dangerous play whether or not someone's hurt.

Thirdly you say you're upset because the players who incapacitated BOD were not punished. So if they had been punished you wouldn't be upset? Fair enough. Now who's fault is it that they were not punished and so who should yur anger be directed towards? I'm not defending them, I hate to see dangerous play as much as the next man, but theirs was only one in a series of dozens of such incidents in international rugby. That's why all this public outpouring of vitriol and opinions dropping through the floor looks like sour grapes.

I think many mistakes were made in this
1. the illegal tackle
2. failure by match officials to see &/or take action
3. sensationalisation of the matter by SCW and AC (a whole press conference, media campaign etc - unfortunately the effect they hoped for before the 2nd match has come 4months too late)
4. the use by BOD of the incident to whip up interest for the release of his book (having said that it was behind him, suddenly on the week that his book is released, the video finds it's way on to Sky and the comments in The Guardian etc. A little like the video of BOD gouging Henson made it's way onto the internet the week before his book was released).

And what do we have as a result? Mass hysteria. boo the haka. cheer the springboks instead. opinions dropping through floors. target umanga etc
We've all become condoms of the media, used for their benefit. Our thoughts and opinions decided at some PR firm in D2 just so we can

There's great matches coming up all autumn and it would be a shame to not enjoy the rugby. Let's all buy the book and move on already.

PS. Daveirl, I'm not sure at all about record scores. I only said it was a possibility.

Davei141

I agree with most of that post, but look at the PR on the other side. BOD disrespects maori people, he deserved everything he got ECT. Now theyre saying hes lying about a nurse, oh come on, surely hes not going to spoof on about something like that, its not like hes that short of money. The darcy tackle was his work alone, it wasnt 2 people coordinating a spear, and thats the difference.

foxtail

we'll drag this out so?

i think darcy's was just as bad because it was away from the ball (darcy got his hands to him after the ball had left, then proceeded to piledrive him into the ground). they were both dangerous tackles. to say that they were coordinated you'd have to believe that the tactic was discussed in the dressing room (since it happened within 1 second couldn't have been coordinated on the field and within minutes of the start) and i think that would be stretching the imagination a bit too far.

Now theyre saying hes lying about a nurse, oh come on, surely hes not going to spoof on about something like that, its not like hes that short of money.

i'm not sure about BOD needing money, but i know he'd love to sell lots of copies of his book.

on the NZ PR there's always muppets and i'm sure the NZ public has it's fair share but it's no excuse to not look at things impartially. i heard someone say when you start throwing dirt all you're doing is losing ground.

kstanl

I don't know what everyone expects from obnoxious Southern Hemispherians with chips on their shoulder and something to prove outside of the sport itself. The spear tackle, the International Rules farce the other day, O'Gara, etc. are simply indicative of a group of neighbouring nations that are, sad to say, full of arseholes.

Mungaman

Foxtail are you Grant Fox?
Read the foxes comments he's on the mark. Before the All Black decimation of the lions everyone wanted to go down there. Before the incident New Zealanders were'nt refered to as bunches of arseholes with chips on there shoulders . Before you bought Brians book and licked the collective self pity arse of the media just wind your memories back to the fabulous rugby that has been displayed by the ABs over the years.
I for one absolutely and utterly dispise the hate campaign that is going on in Ireland at the moment. For christs sakes we were born to Irish heritage, live and work with you and 99% of Kiwis will bend over backwards for an Irishman. Just remeber lads its a contact sport where injury is part and parcel of life on a beautful green pitch with a set of posts at either end.(and before you all fizz at the contact bit I don't condone what happen and am heartfully sorry ,genuinely, as are the vast majoriy of kiwis what happened to BOD)
For the love of the game and a bit of Cead Mile a Failte don't boo them get into to pub based sh*t slining when the fans arrive on mass. If you show a kicker respect at one of the worlds most loved ground it could do you a few favours to do yourselves respect and follow that on and off the pitch.
Jeez dare to dream and instead of the sh*ite thats been going on get behind your team and maybe just maybe the tide may turn.
As for the post above do you all agree with this idiot? "A litany of insults follows a fool"

daveirl

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kstanl

Blah, blah, blah.

RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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I'll just second that....nice bunch of people but once it comes to rugby a bunch of seriously arrogant tools. The manchester united of rugby....

I have some really good kiwi friends who i refuse to talk rugby with as i'd probably be forced to strangle them if we did.

gjim

Thirdly you say you're upset because the players who incapacitated BOD were not punished. So if they had been punished you wouldn't be upset?

Can you not take off the eye-patch for a minute and understand how rugby supporters everywhere find it distressing when a player is incapacitated for over six month in the prime of his playing career because of extremely dirty play on the part of some other players? Who really cares if they got a yellow card, red card or a suspension? It's the fact that what they did is being defended by NZ supporters is what is pissing people off.

In addition, the concerted effort to vilify BOD in your media in an effort to cover up the collective guilt is childish and transparent. Out of interest I've read some articles in the nzherald and they are nothing less than rabid jingoistic tabloid bull but that sort of sh*te obviously has a willing audience in NZ. The policy is so obvious it's amazing that anyone falls for it: BOD is a whiney girl and our two boys are strong stoic men. Therefore .... You can fill in the dots yourself.

It's not just the Irish media either my friend. The general admiration for the All Blacks has waned considerably and not just in Ireland and the UK. At this stage I'd support anyone against the All Blacks and that's a complete turn around compared to a year or two ago. I follow a couple of other messageboards and it seems everyone - including your SH brothers - are against you on this one. If you want to believe that you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong, fair enough. Just don't expect anyone else to buy into that self-delusion despite what your newspaper opinion writers try to tell you.

Trojan

I'd rather cheer for South Africa. Another bunch of thugs, but at least they have the honesty to admit it.

Snickers Man

This Irish team is looking way too green for the All Blacks and way too nice.

Even if Shane Horgan recovers from his shoulder injury, the backs look to offer a choice between the very dull and the very callow.

For all that he's supposed to be a specialist backs' coach, Steady Eddie is almost certain to put out a three quarter line that emphasises solidity rather than flair.

Stringer, O'Gara at half backs pick themselves.
So does Geordan Murphy, despite a poor Lions tour, at full back.

But the three quarters!!

D'Arcy and Horgan in the centre (probably)

And on the wings? I can see Steady Eddie choosing to play Anthony Horgan on one wing and Girvan Dempsey on the other. A pairing designed to keep the score down. A Horgan is a solid enough player at Celtic League level and can just about live with the pace of the Heineken Cup. Up against Sivivatu, Rocokoco or Howlett he will be embarassed for pace and will not offer ANY attacking threat. And as for Girvan Dempsey......

I'd love him to play a 3/4 line of Bowe D'Arcy Trimble and S Horgan (or A Horgan if S is unfit). Bowe and Trimble are completely untried against top opposition but what the hell have we to lose?

Disappointed he dropped Heaslip from the forwards. And what does the muppet have against David Wallace? I reckon Wally must have shagged his daughter.

Anyone got any better theory?

RuggieBear

Snickers Man wrote:

Disappointed he dropped Heaslip from the forwards. And what does the muppet have against David Wallace? I reckon Wally must have shagged his daughter.

Anyone got any better theory?

Sodomy.

The fact that A Horgan has been called up show the joke of a coach that EOS is.

In my mind they should have put out a more experimental line up as they are going to get mullered anyway

Snickers Man

RuggieBear wrote:

In my mind they should have put out a more experimental line up as they are going to get mullered anyway

My sentiments entirely.

Brianb8802

A New Zealand News report on the new video footage,

http://xtramsn.co.nz/rugby/0,,12450-4945580-300,00.html

Crash

Actually, my opinion of the NZ rugby team dropped a fair bit after watching the Wales New Zealand match. notice teh difference in their rugby between the 1st and 2nd half - 1st half, very cynical rugby, lots of interesting semi-illegal play. because they THOUGHT that they were going up against a proper on form welsh team. Second half they played proper rugby, or at least more decent than before, because they felt they didnt have to play cynically.

On the other hand, watching France and Australia was pure perfect rugby. i havent seen a better match in a long time.

vorbis

I noticed that too, the offside rule takes a fair hammering whenever New Zealand play! I don't understand why the ref wouldn't penalise them more for the consistent slowing down of the ball.

Mungaman

I dunno ladds
Watching the All Blacks beat the Best team in the Northern Hemisphere by 38 points was very entertaining. I think you may have found it a bit boring in the first half as there wasn't as many fast paced movments and tries as you have come to expect.

Amz

Sweet Tapdancing Christ, Wales aren't the best team in the Northern Hemisphere, considering most of their top internationals are out injured, or just returned from injury you can hardly compare that side that turned up on Saturday (In body anyway) with the side that won the Six Nations earlier this year.

Get your head out o' your arse Mungaman.

The first half wasn't as entertaining because the New Zealand team appeared to be expecting a better Wales side and as such their play was more cynical, they pushed the boundries of the rules to the limit and got away with it. The second half saw them actually play proper rugby without the cynicism of the First half and as such was more enjoyable to watch.

It's a pity that the best side in the world has to resort to such tactics.

Crash

I would have liked to see a clean game between NZ and a full strength welsh team actually - with Shanklin, Peel, Henson and Genthin Jenkins in (ok jenkins isnt spectacular sometimes, but he does have moments of pure genius - ala his run up field off a kick in one of the lions matches at speeds i didnt think a fella his size could pull off) - imo NZ still would have won but had that been the welsh team and the NZ coaches hadnt blatantly been telling the team to play every rule, especially offside, to the limit, it could have been a real proper match.

I just feel that the all blacks have lost something since the days i used to love seeing them play - its a much more sly team these days in how they play - its professional rugby, but not necessarily good professional. IMO some of the stuff they pulled the other day was comparitive to pulling a klinsman in soccer

Hippo

They're not exactly strangers to this stuff either....did you see the videos before the welsh game of Andy Hayden's dive out of the lineout in 1978?! It's a pity, they're a potentially great team and most of the time their rugby's great to watch, but with all the lying on the wrong side and the permanent 'accidental' blocking of the kicker on his chase, it does get a bit tiresome.

Mungaman

Amz wrote:

Sweet Tapdancing Christ, Wales aren't the best team in the Northern Hemisphere,
Get your head out o' your arse Mungaman.

.

Who are then? Amz Ireland? And my head feels good up hear its just like all the Irish ones . You'd think that Ireland never conceded a penalty in all the rugby they ever played. I have lots of love for the Irish and the game but would you all just take a look at yourselves. Seriously do you guys think you never ever pushed the offside line? Its the job of all good flankers to stay on the advantage line. If you watch on Saturday both flankers will get pulled at least twice for being right on the line and trying to gain as much lead as possible on defence.
They outplayed Wales and scored 5 tries whats not good about that?
They beat the current Grand Slam and Six Nation Holders by 38 points. It wasn't a full All Black Team either. If the Irish win on Saturday it'll still be a test win and vice versa if the All Blacks lost no matter who they field it will still be a test defeat.

Mods Lets stop the sh*t slinging as well its just a game and this is meant to be a fun and informative extension to enjoying rugby.

Liam90

it obvious wales are the best in the northern hemisphere, they won the 6 nations, what other evidence do you need, and if you disagree with this well then your a timmy

Crash

Mungaman - did you see any of us say "ireland are the best team in teh northern hemisphere"? not these bloody days anyhow. My point was that the wales team that went up against NZ werent the grand slam wales team. I think the outcome would've been the same but the scores would've been a fair bit closer.

Based on the weekends action, i'd say France were the best Northern Hemisphere team this weekend.

Amz

Mungaman wrote:

Who are then? Amz Ireland? And my head feels good up hear its just like all the Irish ones .

I don't think there are any Irish heads sharing that space with you Mungaman.

Ireland are by no means the best side in the Northern hemisphere, particularly not at the moment.

You'd think that Ireland never conceded a penalty in all the rugby they ever played. I have lots of love for the Irish and the game but would you all just take a look at yourselves. Seriously do you guys think you never ever pushed the offside line? Its the job of all good flankers to stay on the advantage line. If you watch on Saturday both flankers will get pulled at least twice for being right on the line and trying to gain as much lead as possible on defence.

Nobody is playing the "holier than thou" card, but you.

There was an obvious (To anyone but perhaps a New Zealander) cynicism about the All Black's play last Saturday, particularly in the first half. That's what irked me and that's what irked a lot of rugby fans.

They outplayed Wales and scored 5 tries whats not good about that?
They beat the current Grand Slam and Six Nation Holders by 38 points. It wasn't a full All Black Team either.

Yes, they outplayed Wales and won, but as I already said they did it by playing a lot of cynical rugby in the first half.

The second half, which saw the far better, more free flowing rugby saw less of the cynicism and was far more enjoyable to watch. There were clearly different tactics being employed.

If the Irish win on Saturday it'll still be a test win and vice versa if the All Blacks lost no matter who they field it will still be a test defeat.

Not sure what point you're making here ...

Amz

Liam90 wrote:

it obvious wales are the best in the northern hemisphere, they won the 6 nations, what other evidence do you need, and if you disagree with this well then your a timmy

Wales won a Six Nations in a year when England and Ireland were in disarray due to injury, loss of experienced players etc. Scotland aren't able to compete any more and Italy are still just there to make up the numbers.

Ireland were relying on an injury free few matches if they were to have any hope of contending the competition. France were having problems with managment and team selection etc.

Wales were the best team in that competition. They were by no means the same team on Saturday.