Was he really kidnapped?

giftgrub

Who thinks Rory Carroll was really kidnapped?

A couple of us in work have a sneaking suspicion that it was a stunt organised by The Guardian.

Think about it...

He was taken by an unkown group..so far no ones claimed responsiblity

There were no demands

He was only held for 36 hours

His parents didn't seem all that upset or worried

Theres an air of vagueness over why he was released...we do know that there was no ransom paid, (Confirmed by Dermot Aherne)

Or maybe I'm just fishing........

AARRRGH

Interesting.

How did the media/whatever know he was kidnapped?

Third_Echelon

I was thinking something similar myself.....

whiskeyman

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15359

Aged 33 and an Irish citizen, Carroll has been in Baghdad for nine months working for the London-based Guardian newspaper. He was abducted by gunmen in a largely Shiite neighbourhood of Baghdad after interviewing someone who had suffered under Saddam Hussein. He was with an interpreter and two drivers at the time. One of the drivers was also kidnapped but was let go 20 minutes later.

A bit of a very fancy "stunt" if you want to believe it.... I may believe you more if he were a tabloid journo.

It seems to be carried out by an opportunistic, criminal gang.
The Government is denying any ransom was paid, but you never know.
I'd say we wont get the full details on it, but I very much doubt its a stunt...especially from the Guardian.

Interesting to note you thought of this scenario, yet take the confirmation of no ransom paid (from a politician!) as fact

black_jack

giftgrub wrote:

Who thinks Rory Carroll was really kidnapped?

A couple of us in work have a sneaking suspicion that it was a stunt organised by The Guardian.

Hang on this is the Guardian, not the news of the world, and this isn't some tabloid hack, this is a highly respected and well regarded journalist.

The Guardian is a one of the high brow left leaning papers on the planet, who's circulation has risen drastically before this event over its format shift. It's Iraq coverage is extremely well regarded. Why jepordise all this, for a few scrappy headlines?

Think about it...

He was taken by an unkown group..so far no ones claimed responsiblity

There were no demands

He was only held for 36 hours

And everyone from the Government of Iran, to Islamic groups, to Al Jazeera instantly.

Incidently it's not a unknown group it's a group of Shia several of whom have been arrested.

His parents didn't seem all that upset or worried

I'm sure they did, they just didn't act hysterical like the Bigley family. His father was a respected journalist.

Anyway before you fake a kidnapping would you call your parents and say "Mum dad, I'm about to fake a kidnapping *wink* play along. Would your parents play along?

Theres an air of vagueness over why he was released...we do know that there was no ransom paid, (Confirmed by Dermot Aherne)

Or maybe I'm just fishing........

You are. More likely than note the insurgents realised that the kidnapping and execution of Carroll would backfire massively with one of the most anti occupation pulling out of Iraq. Carroll spent time in Fajulla reporting US actions. So likely the word passed down the line that he was to be released.

dublindube wrote:

How did the media/whatever know he was kidnapped?

I love this scrambling for a conspiracy theory without bothering to look for a cursory fact. Carroll travelled with two drivers, interpreter also according to
The Irish times correspondent

Lara Marlowe, Irish Times, Iraq Correspondent wrote:

Most foreign correspondents here use a chase car, the idea being that the second car can alert you by cell phone if you're being followed. When I arrived in Baghdad this time, I discussed the possibility with Kassim, The Irish Times interpreter. "Iraqis know about the chase car now," he said. "It just makes you more visible, and it multiplies the number of people who know where you're going."

We decided not to hire a second car. But we use three different cars, depending on the day. To try to ease Baghdad's horrific traffic jams, the government has instituted an odd/even plate number scheme. Whenever we've been slightly uneasy about appointments, we take a powerful BMW, in the hope of outrunning kidnappers. We also leave a note on my desk, with the names, phone numbers and address of the people we're going to see.

These preparations are an integral part of working here. So is attention to clothing. "Have you noticed that Iraqi men wear baggier jeans, higher up on their waists than Westerners?" Rory asked me on Monday night. "And they tend to wear striped pyjama-like shirts." He had gone to Iraqi shops and bought local clothing.

I loath inane conspiracy theories that haven't even bothered to research the basic facts. The fact that his parents remained calm and collected and didn't go on tv screaming and begging for his release a few hours after his kidnapping is cited as "prove" this was staged.

jrey1981

I can see the thinking - good PR for the UK and Irish governments, and for The Guardian - but it sounds a bit far-fetched a theory to me.

And besides, no journalist worth his salt would participate in such a stunt - and Rory comes across as a very decent and genuine journalist.

whiskeyman

giftgrub wrote:

Theres an air of vagueness over why he was released...we do know that there was no ransom paid, (Confirmed by Dermot Aherne)

Should clear this one up better..... of course Aherne is going to deny a ransom.
Why?
If he didnt, other gangs would think "hey, we can get easy money by kidnapping a journalist. There's lots of them here anyway!".

Simple... deny you payoff to prevent copycats.
It's a denial carried out by police forces around the world in hostage situations where they may may to payup (last resort) to prevent loss of life.

super_furry

Isn't it obvious? He went out on the piss, missed his deadline for an article with The Guardian and knew he was in the ****. So what does he do? He can't phone in sick cos he's been seen in the pub so he fakes a kidnapping.

Larianne

Or they were getting sick of reporting on a soldier or two being killed.... Oooh a kidnapping, so much more interesting!

I dunno, wouldn't put it past anyone in this day and age to make something up to make money. Happens everyday..

And the journo has got a book deal or two from it.

black_jack

Larianne wrote:

Or they were getting sick of reporting on a soldier or two being killed.... Oooh a kidnapping, so much more interesting!

I dunno, wouldn't put it past anyone in this day and age to make something up to make money. Happens everyday..

Then I suggest you read some of Carroll's articles

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2005/10/19/guardian_journalist_missing_in_iraq.html

The impact on everyday iraq's while the constitution is being wrestled with

or this after the London bombings

Hadi Ali never thought it would be his turn to phone. Whenever a particularly bad bomb shook Baghdad, his sister would ring from London to check he was all right.

When news came through of multiple explosions in London, the 30-year-old airport worker immediately picked up the phone, a novel, unwelcome role reversal.

"I was really worried. I saw from the TV that the situation was pretty bad. But my sister was OK," he said yesterday.

On the day the cameras also pointed a different way, residents across the Iraqi capital followed the events on television, saddened by the news but relieved that, for once, they were viewers, not victims.

Or search the guardian archives and read his writing about Fallujah, not to mention he was prepping his coverage of the Saddam trial before his departure in January.

And the journo has got a book deal or two from it.

The cyncial suggestion that a credible journalist who's been providing compelling fascinating reports on every aspect of life in Baghdad and Iraq, that I've been enjoying for months now, a man who'd covered the fallout of the war in Kosovo, and survived the most dangerous journalist beat in the world for eight months would now engage in some cyncial stunt for a book deal, this naked contempt for his work, is sickening.

Oh and channel four news reported that he may have been traded by the Iraq government for some of Moqtada Sadr insurgents held by the government, seeing as he was kidnapped by Sunni's in Sadr city, Moqtada's stronghold. The suggestion that Dermot Ahern was the only person capable or interested or able to negotiate his release, combined with people's indifference to Carroll's charcter, tedious conspiracy theories, ignorance of dangerous to journalists in Iraq, and williness to engage in vile little slanderous conspiracies, exposes the petty small minded attitude of the irish.

The man was kidnapped, it's possible the Iraq government negotiated his release, before Dermot Ahern could find Sadr city never mind get a team to Iraq, combined with his families mature calm attitude, and people think this is all some massive fraud.

superfurry wrote:

Isn't it obvious? He went out on the piss, missed his deadline for an article with The Guardian and knew he was in the ****. So what does he do? He can't phone in sick cos he's been seen in the pub so he fakes a kidnapping.

Tell me this is trolling right.

From our own

Lara Marlowe wrote:

Rory thought the security situation might be improving. "It's been a long time since there was an attempted kidnapping," he said. "Some of us are even thinking about going out to restaurants again."

You think you go out on the batter in baghdad? There are no bars outside the hotels, Iraq christian's who sell booze, can get their shops burnt down, or murdered.

The combined ignorance and williness to believe any old bulls*it on this thread is epic.

super_furry

Hook, line and sinker.

jetsonx

Who thinks Rory Carroll was really kidnapped?

A couple of us in work have a sneaking suspicion that it was a stunt organised by The Guardian.

Think about it...

oh no...sounds like a group of bored irish civil servants came up with this theory....or there must be loads of free time where you work!

Simple Simon

black_jack wrote:

Tell me this is trolling right.

From our own



You think you go out on the batter in baghdad? There are no bars outside the hotels, Iraq christian's who sell booze, can get their shops burnt down, or murdered.

The combined ignorance and williness to believe any old bulls*it on this thread is epic.

F*cking hell, you're a fun chap...

black_jack

super_furry wrote:

<I> The combined ignorance and williness to believe any old bulls*it on this thread is epic. </I>

Exactly what I was thinking after reading your post.

Hook, line and sinker.

Oh so you're an idiot, and then "hook line and sinker" I said I thought you were a troll, now if I rose to the bait, then it'd be hook line a sinker, but I spotted you, so not only are you a troll, but you're a bad troll, how pathetic.

Now my ignore list gets that little bit longer.

If only real life had the function that allowed me block muppets.

Simple Simon wrote:

F*cking hell, you're a fun chap...

I met his dad once, and really enjoy and respect Rory's writing. Bullsh*t speculation and slander of someone I admire and his family, sickens me. And tedious conspiracy theorists who don't even bother with a cursory fact checking annoy the piss out of me.

Wertz

black_jack = Rory Carrol?
I think so!
Look at the "facts":

1) Immeadiately jumps in to defend his story in this thread with several lenghty posts
2) Has a notable absence of posting on boards.ie for well over 36 hours which coincides* with his time spent in captivity
3) Well punctuated and grammatically structured sentences
4) Both the words "Black" and "Jack" rhyme with "hack"; this was the clincher for me, personally.




Seriously, journalists and other westerners get kidnapped in this area of Baghdad all the time, usually by militant groups more intent on weeding out possible informers or spys, rather than looking to profit from any ransom (not that one would ever be paid, especially at any official level)....several things I've read predicted his safe release, like many others before him...this wasn't the snuff video type kidnap that is considered the norm in Iraq.

Stage a kidnapping? Please...imagine the loss of face if a paper like the Guardian got caught out doing something like this....to sell a weeks worth of papers in a day?
I love a good conspiracy but the key ingredients of the one "revealed" here are lacklustre at best, and are absolutely baseless...

I reckon they just paid the ransom pretty quick.

black_jack

Wertz wrote:

black_jack = Rory Carrol?
I think so!
Look at the "facts":

1) Immeadiately jumps in to defend his story in this thread with several lenghty posts
2) Has a notable absence of posting on boards.ie for well over 36 hours which coincides* with his time spent in captivity
3) Well punctuated and grammatically structured sentences
4) Both the words "Black" and "Jack" rhyme with "hack"; this was the clincher for me, personally.

Plus We've never been photographed together!

Now see if I was clever I would have been posting in this interm trying to drum up media attention. Oh wait that was there already.

Seriously, journalists and other westerners get kidnapped in this area of Baghdad all the time, usually by militant groups more intent on weeding out possible informers or spys, rather than looking to profit from any ransom (not that one would ever be paid, especially at any official level)....several things I've read predicted his safe release, like many others before him...this wasn't the snuff video type kidnap that is considered the norm in Iraq.

Also to use this to point to illegalbutthead, paid by whom? The insurgents are very well funded by a variety of sources, the suggestion that this is about cash displays the rank ignorance about the region on this thread. The insurgents are religious fanatics. While criminal gangs prey on people and offer ransoms, where Carroll was kidnapped suggests it was the iraq insurgents who are less driven than money than idealogy, the channel four suggestion that the iraq government may have released insurgents they hold to free him is very plausible.

Stage a kidnapping? Please...imagine the loss of face if a paper like the Guardian got caught out doing something like this....to sell a weeks worth of papers in a day?
I love a good conspiracy but the key ingredients of the one "revealed" here are lacklustre at best, and are absolutely baseless...

Yeah this isn't the Mirror or the Sun who can pretty much arrange the kidnap attempt on posh and becks and walk away from it.

This is a highly credible incredibly pompous (at times) extremely well regarded newspaper. Literally the potential discovering of a faked kidnapping would kill the guardian. It goes aganist the ethos of the paper, which like the Irish times is run by a trust and is not driven solely by profits like the murdoch group.

Conspiracy theorists annoy the piss out of me, they leap to conclusions based on "obvious facts" when a cursory glace at the situation reveals there is always a more plausible and realistic version of events.

sweetbeat

I think Black Jack is Jack Black. How else could he know all that stuff he knows about Tenacious D?

black_jack

sweetbeat wrote:

I think Black Jack is Jack Black. How else could he know all that stuff he knows about Tenacious D?

I also know the lyrics to the greatest song in the world, and its tribute.

Sam Vimes

giftgrub wrote:

His parents didn't seem all that upset or worried

thats true. his dad sounded like he was reading out a shopping list

stevenmu

The Indo had the theory today that he was kidnapped by a criminal gang in the hope of selling him on to insurgents, but Chalabi and Al-Sadr didn't want anything to do with it because he's Irish, so he was let go. Ireland has a good pro-arab image in the middle east (largely due to Irish charity support of palistinian refugees) so they don't want to alienate people who may become sympathetic with their cause.

Seems like the more plausible scenario to me anyway (but maybe that's just because I was thinking the same thing before they printed it).

black_jack

stevenmu wrote:

The Indo had the theory today that he was kidnapped by a criminal gang in the hope of selling him on to insurgents, but Chalabi and Al-Sadr didn't want anything to do with it because he's Irish, so he was let go. Ireland has a good pro-arab image in the middle east (largely due to Irish charity support of palistinian refugees) so they don't want to alienate people who may become sympathetic with their cause.

Seems like the more plausible scenario to me anyway (but maybe that's just because I was thinking the same thing before they printed it).

But he was kidnapped in Sadr city, not a criminal stronghold. A insurgency stronghold.

snickerpuss

I really don't believe that The Guardian would involve themselves in stuff like that, they're not idiots, its a serious paper.