Poor Ian Paisley Jnr.

Diorraing

Did anyone see Ian Paisley Junior on BBC's Hearts and Minds last week. Apparently, he refused to condemn a remark made by a DUP colleague who said that the 5,000 people who voted for Sinn Féin's south Belfast candidate Alex Maskey were subhuman. I didn't see it myself but its sorry to learn that even after the IRA's decommissioning that the DUP still possess this biggoted view of their neighbours. It brings to mind a remark made by Hitler about the Jews: "I don't want to hear any more absurd statements to the effect that a Jew is a human being".

Pompey Magnus

Yeah I read about that comment in all the major newspapers where the indignation was similar to the comments of Fr. Alec Reid, oh wait, no I didn't...this was the first I heard about it :eek:

Must have just slipped through the net.

Ajnag

Im sure everyone will be over to pour out their rightous indignation here after their finished with the reid thread.

OH WAIT?
WTFBBQ? :eek:
o_O
Er why didnt i see the oh be still our bleeding hearts on this one?

Bias? Never!!!111!!!
Well actually technically its not bias, it's hyprocracy people are so much in to the whipping boy of the provos and the shinners they just dont have the energy to apply their sense of justice... equally.:rolleyes:

Flex

Depeche_Mode wrote:

Yeah I read about that comment in all the major newspapers where the indignation was similar to the comments of Fr. Alec Reid, oh wait, no I didn't...this was the first I heard about it :eek:

Must have just slipped through the net.

i guess it was just sheer luck on ian paisley jnr's part :rolleyes:

sceptre

Ajnag wrote:

Im sure everyone will be over to pour out their rightous indignation here after their finished with the reid thread.

OH WAIT?
WTFBBQ? :eek:
o_O
Er why didnt i see the oh be still our bleeding hearts on this one?

Bias? Never!!!111!!!
Well actually technically its not bias, it's hyprocracy people are so much in to the whipping boy of the provos and the shinners they just dont have the energy to apply their sense of justice... equally.:rolleyes:

I'm afraid I didn't understand the middle part of that at all and I'm slightly unsure about the rest.

Anyhoo, I didn't see the show - it's got that cute cartoon opening but there are far too many idiots on it. Pitiful refusal from Paisley the lesser, pretty much just as bad as anything we've come to expect from the rhetoric sections up there. Pity there are no details on whoever said the original remark as it's not irrelevant. One almost expects this level of stupidity from the yowlers on both sides of the divide the yowlers seek to maintain but it's always poor form when someone who presumably at least completed the eleven plus comes out with this kind of thing. Even our own shower of incompetents manage to do better than this, at least in recent years.

Diorraing

Don't know which DUP bloke said it exactly. It gets a brief mention in monday's Irish Times. Very brief.

Ajnag

I'm afraid I didn't understand the middle part of that at all and I'm slightly unsure about the rest.

Just me bitchin about the yowlers down south. While they can take issue to alec reids comments they dont seem to give a damn about the other side of the same issue or how they act. And I dont think it's from a bias towards unionism, more that our yowlers are so concerned voicing their piety over the misdeeds of sinn fein and nationalism they never seem to apply their outspoken sense of justice or outrage to the other offenders equally.

Hence hypocracy.

sceptre

Ajnag wrote:

Just me bitchin about the yowlers down south. While they can take issue to alec reids comments they dont seem to give a damn about the other side of the same issue or how they act.

That appears to be an assumption without evidence provided to support it. Linking to a few posts here, which you didn't bother even to do, wouldn't do for evidence for me. I'd suggest a new thread. I can understand the desire for bitching or ranting but not often in a thread started by someone else.

And I dont think it's from a bias towards unionism, more that our yowlers are so concerned voicing their piety over the misdeeds of sinn fein and nationalism they never seem to apply their outspoken sense of justice or outrage to the other offenders equally.

See above, though I recognise that this one is offered purely as opinion.

There is of course the annoyance that that particular group of yowlers up north claim to be representing all of us on the island, given that they've never deigned to properly recognise the legitimacy of the state we live in, the government we elect or hence the legitimacy of my vote when I use it. Hence perhaps the reason why they get their own special level of outrage for what they've been associated with over the years as well as specific eyerolling for their half of the stupidity the unionists are also involved in. Then again this reasoning often fails to be recognised. And in any case, this thread wasn't intended to be about Sinn Fein so I'll leave you to start a new one in which I'll happily prattle on as to why there may be specific resentment towards any specific group not intended as the primary thrust of this specific thread. I asume you'd prefer that a thread rightly criticising an elected DUP representative didn't turn into a discussion on the big-R Irish republicans, I can certainly assume that the thread starter wasn't aiming for that so that's my only contribution in this one on the non Ian Paisley junior parts.

Ajnag

There is of course the annoyance that that particular group of yowlers up north claim to be representing all of us on the island, given that they've never deigned to properly recognise the legitimacy of the state we live in, the government we elect or hence the legitimacy of my vote when I use it. Hence perhaps the reason why they get their own special level of outrage for what they've been associated with over the years as well as specific eyerolling for their half of the stupidity the unionists are also involved in. Then again this reasoning often fails to be recognised.

That is a fair point of reasoning, However alec reid is a nationalist not a shinner afaik. And thats another point, that resentment towards the shinners is being inncorrectly directed at nationalists up north.

More importantly why is one form of bigotry being exposed over another. The paper's here give nationalist bigotry pages worth, while unionist bigotry is barely covered in comparision. This is simply my opinion based on what I observe. But lets take a quick look at something.

Results 1 - 10 of 10 for sub human northern ireland.
Taken from:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=sub+human+northern+ireland&btnG=Search+News

Results 1 - 10 of about 169 for alec reid nazis.
Taken from:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=alec+reid+nazis&btnG=Search+News

While this isnt the best evidense ever given that arguements could be made about the search methodolgys used, It do's indicate that their is some basis to what Im saying. Now why you think it is a far strech for me to say I observe it on the politics board is hard for me to comprehend. I have no desire to point out others here individually nor do I wish to get into the spiraling vortex that arguements on ni become in this board, I just wish to point out an observation that discomforts me.

I dont see how my complaints stray far from the op's original sentiment tbh.

I didn't see it myself but its sorry to learn that even after the IRA's decommissioning that the DUP still possess this biggoted view of their neighbours. It brings to mind a remark made by Hitler about the Jews: "I don't want to hear any more absurd statements to the effect that a Jew is a human being".

Flex

Ajnag wrote:

That is a fair point of reasoning, However alec reid is a nationalist not a shinner afaik. And thats another point, that resentment towards the shinners is being inncorrectly directed at nationalists up north.

More importantly why is one form of bigotry being exposed over another. The paper's here give nationalist bigotry pages worth, while unionist bigotry is barely covered in comparision. This is simply my opinion based on what I observe. But lets take a quick look at something.


While this isnt the best evidense ever given that arguements could be made about the search methodolgys used, It do's indicate that their is some basis to what Im saying. Now why you think it is a far strech for me to say I observe it on the politics board is hard for me to comprehend. I have no desire to point out others here individually nor do I wish to get into the spiraling vortex that arguements on ni become in this board, I just wish to point out an observation that discomforts me.

I dont see how my complaints stray far from the op's original sentiment tbh.

I dont see how your complaints strayed far from the op's original sentiment either tbh. i thought the point of this thread was basically that when a nationalist insults unionists theres alot of attention and indignation and criticism; whereas when a unionist insults nationalists theres practically nothing.

Nuttzz

most people just think "ah sure its a paisley, what do you expect"

his comment that bbc means better be catholic was funny though...

sceptre

Ajnag wrote:

I dont see how my complaints stray far from the op's original sentiment tbh.

Tell you what, either way it's a thread that might produce more discussion than a uniform "ooh, wasn't that awful" series of responses with a counter to see how many there were. Feel free to proceed.

LordSutch

Diorraing wrote:

Did anyone see Ian Paisley Junior on BBC's Hearts and Minds last week. Apparently, he refused to condemn a remark made by a DUP colleague who said that the 5,000 people who voted for Sinn Féin's south Belfast candidate Alex Maskey were subhuman. I didn't see it myself but its sorry to learn that even after the IRA's decommissioning that the DUP still possess this biggoted view of their neighbours. It brings to mind a remark made by Hitler about the Jews: "I don't want to hear any more absurd statements to the effect that a Jew is a human being".

I actually saw Hearts & Minds twice: Alex maskey of (Sinn Fein/IRA) tried to divert the conversation by bringing-up the "Sub Human" comment made by a DUP person in the past in order to avoid tackling the Alec Reid "Nazi" comment! I have very little time for Ian Paisley (Jnr) but on this occasion he was right, the questioner (Noel Thompson) was asking the question about Alec Reid's scurrolous Nazi comments and he wanted feedback from the panel, and Ian Paisley jnr gave his reply but Alex Maskey tried to divert the spotlight onto the many hurtful comments made by other people in the past! My point being that on this particular night Paisley was correct to not get drawn into the history of hurtful language in the North but to condem the Nazi comment specially on this the 60th anniversary of the defeat of the Nazi's.

A Dub in Glasgo

No surprise that some will villify a person for referring to the actions of Unionists as Nazi yet are silent when a Unionists describes Sinn Fein supporters as subhuman

I actually saw Hearts & Minds as well!

Diorraing

Nuttzz wrote:

his comment that bbc means better be catholic was funny though...

Oh, I just fell off my seat laughing...tears in your eyes stuff

Diorraing

ArthurF wrote:

I actually saw Hearts & Minds twice: Alex maskey of (Sinn Fein/IRA) tried to divert the conversation by bringing-up the "Sub Human" comment made by a DUP person in the past in order to avoid tackling the Alec Reid "Nazi" comment! I have very little time for Ian Paisley (Jnr) but on this occasion he was right, the questioner (Noel Thompson) was asking the question about Alec Reid's scurrolous Nazi comments and he wanted feedback from the panel, and Ian Paisley jnr gave his reply but Alex Maskey tried to divert the spotlight onto the many hurtful comments made by other people in the past! My point being that on this particular night Paisley was correct to not get drawn into the history of hurtful language in the North but to condem the Nazi comment specially on this the 60th anniversary of the defeat of the Nazi's.

The fact that Maskey brought up this issue is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that Ian Paisley Jnr on public T.V refused to condemn remarks by a colleague to the effect that republican voters are subhuman. I believe there is another form for discussion about Alec Reid's remarks, please don't hijack this one which deals with a completely different issue.

sceptre

Diorraing wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Ian Paisley Jnr on public T.V refused to condemn remarks by a colleague to the effect that republican voters are subhuman.

Not republican voters. Sinn Fein voters and what appears to be a specific group of Sinn Fein voters given that that's the only information provided. Sinn Fein make up only a part of the republican movement, which is presumably a smaller subset of those that might consider themselves republican. Even with a big R. I don't have a problem with the complaint - it's an entirely justified complaint as anyone should recognise but while an inference may be drawn based on supposition, there's no evidence whatever that the hitherto unnamed DUP colleague castigated republican voters as an entire group at all.

Diorraing

sceptre wrote:

Not republican voters. Sinn Fein voters and what appears to be a specific group of Sinn Fein voters given that that's the only information provided. Sinn Fein make up only a part of the republican movement, which is presumably a smaller subset of those that might consider themselves republican. Even with a big R. I don't have a problem with the complaint - it's an entirely justified complaint as anyone should recognise but while an inference may be drawn based on supposition, there's no evidence whatever that the hitherto unnamed DUP colleague castigated republican voters as an entire group at all.

Why would he say that anyone who voted for SF in south Belfast were subhuman and that no one else who voted SF were? It is obvious that SF are the only republican party in the North. SDLP were for a long time but whatever is left of them are castle catholics happy with their seats in the House of Lords. Anyway as said earlier this thread was started to discuss Ian Paisley Jnr's comments. I don't see why you keep wanting to switch the topic. If you want to speak on this thread please make it relevent to the title!

Pompey Magnus

sceptre wrote:

there's no evidence whatever that the hitherto unnamed DUP colleague castigated republican voters as an entire group at all.

It was Sammy Wilson I believe and I don't think he is the kind of guy who simply distinguishes republicans by their addresses to be honest.

LordSutch

Diorraing wrote:

The fact that Maskey brought up this issue is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that Ian Paisley Jnr on public T.V refused to condemn remarks by a colleague to the effect that republican voters are subhuman. I believe there is another form for discussion about Alec Reid's remarks, please don't hijack this one which deals with a completely different issue.

This argument could go round and round for ever, Ian Paisley refused to condem what so and so said so that means ...............
I could also say that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness refused on "Many occassions" to condem bombings and murders up until very recently! so I say again, the Question on Hearts & Minds was specifically regarding the NAZI comments made by Father Alec Reid, so stop mucking about and take that on board!

cal29

ArthurF wrote:

This argument could go round and round for ever, Ian Paisley refused to condem what so and so said so that means ...............
I could also say that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness refused on "Many occassions" to condem bombings and murders up until very recently! so I say again, the Question on Hearts & Minds was specifically regarding the NAZI comments made by Father Alec Reid, so stop mucking about and take that on board!

I think the point is that people should not be selective with their shock/disgust
condemnation if they are to have any credibility
If the comments of Fr Reid are condemned then comments that a section of the population of the North are subhuman should also be condemned if your to have any credibility in your disgust at being labeled a Nazi
As the belief that certain people are subhuman is one of the hallmarks of Nazism Paisley jnrs refusal to condemn or distance himself from such beliefs or comments would seem to lend credence to the accusation of Nazism

It would seem to me that if Alex Maskey was merely trying to divert attention away from the Fr Reid Comments then all Paisley jnr had to do was condemn or distance himself from the comments of Sammy Wilson that would have ended Mr Maskeys alledged diversionary tactic
He chose not to do that presumably because he does not condemn those comments

maccor

ArthurF wrote:

Alex maskey of (Sinn Fein/IRA)

Proof that Sinn Fein is the IRA etc etc etc?

Diorraing

It was Sammy Wilson then was it? Wouldn't surprise me. He used to canvass to my house in South Belfast before election time - the nerve! He is one of the most biggoted persons alive