Computer Science degree.

cianclarke

So, I'm seventeen - and nowhere near getting a full-time job quite yet, so see this is nothing more than market research. I'm trying to figure out where the hell am I going to spend my four years, and I'm torn between DCU and TCD. UCD never really struck me, but willing to consider. UCC's course is too vague - not pure CS from what I see.

Anyway, cutting to the point - from an employer's prospective, which university would I be best off with? DCU has paid work placement built into the course, whereas I didn't see anything of the sort with TCD. Could I just get work experience over the summer with an IT company, is it not quite that easy? I'd work for peanuts... :rolleyes:

TCD just looks like the nicer place to be by far, but DCU seems to have what seems like a more interesting degree, and I might actually be able to manage the maths element. So - I know this isn't a career guidance board, and if there was one I'd be posting this there, but from an employer perspective where am I best?
I'm open to all the uni's - DCU, TCD, UCC and UCD.
Feel free to move this if inappropriate.
Thanks!

Stark

I get the impression that the TCD computer science degree isn't attractive to employers at all. DCU seems to be a decent degree as is the UCD degree. I enjoyed the UCC degree, although it's changed since I did it.

Do pick a course with work experience as it's all "experience experience experience" these days.

damnyanks

Pick a place where it has a good social enviroment and a half decent course. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you goto DCU or Letterykenny IT (Which is actually meant to be quite good!). When you start applying for grad job's they want to see someone who stands out... who looks interesting, someone they want to hire.

Just think about it... 4 years from now you graduate you apply to company X for the grad program. The other 5000 people also have a degree, as long as you get the 2.1 they really don't care. You should be more concerned with developing as a person rather then which place offers a more attractive degree to employers cause in most cases it isn't a huge deal unless its all you have.

wheres me jumpa

damnyanks wrote:

Pick a place where it has a good social enviroment and a half decent course. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you goto DCU or Letterykenny IT (Which is actually meant to be quite good!). When you start applying for grad job's they want to see someone who stands out... who looks interesting, someone they want to hire.

Just think about it... 4 years from now you graduate you apply to company X for the grad program. The other 5000 people also have a degree, as long as you get the 2.1 they really don't care. You should be more concerned with developing as a person rather then which place offers a more attractive degree to employers cause in most cases it isn't a huge deal unless its all you have.

some damn fine posting.

there is only so much you can learn in college, once you get out into the workplace you will see that theres so much more to learn. so whether you went to a uni or an i.t. your still a newbie when you head into the workpace. for any of the major players in ireland, a series of interviews will be conducted, so its not just a case of glancing at where they studied.

pick somewhere you want to go and where the course is best suited to your abilities.

Tom Dunne

damnyanks wrote:

Pick a place where it has a good social enviroment and a half decent course. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you goto DCU or Letterykenny IT.

I agree with everything damnyanks says, apart from this.

Degrees from any of the Universities tend to be held in higher regard than degrees from IT's. It is nothing more than snobbery, but it is a fact of life.

I think the important point is to pick a course that has as many positive factors as possible (as the others are saying). You are lucky enough to have already decided that you want to do a computer science degree, most people haven't a clue what they want to do at 17. Pick factors not only in the course itself (i.e. subjects you have an interest in), but also social factors such as distance from home, commuting and friends that may be going to the same college.

Vokes

Try join the ones where 3rd year work experience is involved. i.e. DCU, DIT, WIT. Work experience will give your CV a competitve edge in 4 years time.

Dar

tom dunne wrote:

Degrees from any of the Universities tend to be held in higher regard than degrees from IT's. It is nothing more than snobbery, but it is a fact of life.

Actually from what I've heard DIT, DCU and UL seem to be the more highly regarded.

LDB

DCU over TCD usually
The DCU work experience is a major factor for employers

AndyWarhol

If you want a qualifcation go to DCU. For an education, Trinity is the way forward (plus the girls are hotter).

deadfingers

Take a look at Maynooth....good CS department, but tends to be too much maths. Also they have work placement. In recent years most students gain 1 year placements with companies such as Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Intel, Oracle, Ericisson and quite a number of the big banks and pharmaceutical companies. A lot of students leaving go back to the company that they spent there placement with. Also its nice friendly place where accomadation is not as expensive and you are also on the dublin bus route. Funny thing is, is that Intel takes on more students from colleges in the north that in the South.

Civilian_Target

A lot of companies take on people from the North because all of the uni's there have a full year of work placement, rather than 6 months, which makes the students more attactive to companies for work placement. After the placement, they tend to go back to the people they were with before...

Stark

UCC give you an option of doing either a 6 month placement of a 12 month placement. I did a 12 month placement myself with Oracle and actually learnt less than most people would on a 6 month placement, but I didn't have to tell people that in interviews.

cianclarke

Wow - very helpfull and interesting replies all around! I suppose an open day will reveal an awful lot as to where I *want* to go. The course in DCU looks far more attractive, and the student life in TCD.
I'm still not 100% decided on CS, I've had a glance at the first year maths book TCD asks for today and it's scared me off quite a bit - I'm not a huge fan of maths.
Any comments regarding the maths element of each course from all the uni's would be very much appreciated, although I know it would be slightly OT here. Thanks again to everybody!

Vokes

I think you'll find whichever Computer course you go to will have a strong maths element in first year to bring everyone up to Leaving Cert honours level.

damnyanks

Just because a course doesn't have a designated period for work experience doesn't mean you can't. You can defer going into 3rd year for a year / 6 months. Become part time student for the year etc. etc. etc.

You can also do summer placements.

rick_fantastic

im doing hte COmputer Science course in IT Tallaght at them moment and I know from talking to people that did the Computer Science courses in DCU and DIT it stands out as a much more technical oriented course compared to mostr computer science degrees out there.

Also the entry points are sumthing ridiclous like 140 points

The course is nearly completely technical based with one filler business subject each semester.

There is no work experience as part of this course while i was doing it but AFAIK they are incorparating it in relatively soon.

The set up suits me as it is semesterised and you do exams twice a year but your only getting examined on 12weeks of work so if u dont hold knowlegde well over long periods it is grat cos u do small exams bi-yearly.

might be worth looking into.

as for work experience in the summer between 2nd and 3rd year i worked for an insurance company doing database and java develoment for peanuts and then between 3rd year and 4th year i worked doing technical support for HP which was well paid cos i was working nite shifts.

if ur looking to do a business style comp science degree go for DIT its a joke of a comp science course

damnyanks

Also something you have to consider is just because you are doing lots of technical classes doesn't mean its actually useful. I've noticed a lot of people who know how to implement something... but they don't know why they do it. I suppose thats ok if you are looking to go into writing business software that really just has to do the job and doesn't matter about load times,footprint etc.

projectmayhem

rick_fantastic wrote:

if ur looking to do a business style comp science degree go for DIT its a joke of a comp science course

i'm doing dit's comp sci course and we have one single "business" element in the year. i'm in second year now and for 2 hours each week we have marketing. everything else is pretty much based around computers and programming.

we do c++, java, web dev, software engineering, algorithms, microprocessors, databases and i'm sure there's other stuff that i'm forgetting.

1st and 2nd year is to bring everyone up to a common level. 3rd year you pick a stream (1 of 3) to steer your way in a certain direction (one of them has 6 months work placement). then in 4th year you take 2 (you can take more if you wish to put yourself under more stress ) specialities...

Kazujo

I got my degree from DIT too, if you want to do IT management or courses like that you can take them as options. It's changed a bit since I left AFAIK but I took Computer systems architecture and administration, microprocessors and stuff like that we did a language up to third year and one business type subject.

I found it to be a very well rounded course, the current degree course has work experience in third year.

finlma

I did the UL one and its pretty tough but very highly regarded, more so than most. Its on a par with DCU. I came out with a 2.1 and started on 30k sterling in London.
UL is a great place to go to college too - probably the nicest university in the country and a great social life.

Vokes

finlma wrote:

I came out with a 2.1 and started on 30k sterling in London.

Sorry for the Off-topicness but.....WOW!!!

£30K just out of college, jaysus, thats something like €44K :eek:

finlma

SofaKing wrote:

Sorry for the Off-topicness but.....WOW!!!

£30K just out of college, jaysus, thats something like €44K :eek:

I wasn't alone there - at least 5 others started on the same. Wages are much better than Engerland. I'm back in Ireland now and earning less than what I was over there but the quality of life here is much better.

damnyanks

Pay in London is a lot better. Insurance & Investment banks seem to pay a good bit. I was offered a placement in Llyods commercial bank that only paid 18k + 3k training. Place I'm working now pay's Grad's a total of 40k sterling (IT BAseD)

comad

I've got a degree from UL and one from DCU, both IT related. Outside the degrees, DCU is not a patch on UL which is an amazing university. Academically, UL is so much harder too. Other uni's you just have to turn on the style for the final year, in UL its hard work for years 2,3,4.

RicardoSmith

finlma wrote:

...the quality of life here is much better.

Sometimes I wonder.

These grad salaries are amazing. £40k is €59k.
After 4 yrs what would you be on?

damnyanks

Don't think of it as euro I've just started thinking of it all as £1 = €1. They work you for it and chances are you won't get paid that much outside of London unless you stay within the same company.

It's not something many people would want to forever. Usually the people who stick around are driven by the money (you can be successful else where with less work).

Moral of the story, they work you for their money no doubt about it.

David19

I believe computer science grads are amongst the highest paid grads in the US? The average starting wage is around $55k I think. Don't forget its cheaper to live there too. If you could get work in California you'd be paid very well and have a great lifestyle. It'd be more relaxed than London for example. I'm sure its not easy to get though.

finlma

London is a pain in the ass to work - you have to be very motivated by work and like a fast pace of life. I thought I did but I was nearly burned out after 2 years. I went to NZ for a year and now I'm back in the green place.

As well as earning a high salary in London you can expect a signing on fee of £3k-£5k and a yearly performance related bonus of between £2k-£10k

Cost of living in London is very high though - accomodation is a rip-off and transport is very expensive too.

damnyanks

finlma wrote:

London is a pain in the ass to work - you have to be very motivated by work and like a fast pace of life. I thought I did but I was nearly burned out after 2 years. I went to NZ for a year and now I'm back in the green place.

As well as earning a high salary in London you can expect a signing on fee of £3k-£5k and a yearly performance related bonus of between £2k-£10k

Cost of living in London is very high though - accomodation is a rip-off and transport is very expensive too.

Try and get a place close to work thats walking distance. I'm living 35 minute walk from where I live... also I hear you can get onto bendy buses for free. But not sure about that

RicardoSmith

damnyanks wrote:

Don't think of it as euro I've just started thinking of it all as £1 = €1. ....

finlma wrote:

...
Cost of living in London is very high though - accomodation is a rip-off and transport is very expensive too.

Its not exactly cheap in Dublin is it? £1 = €1 Seriously!!!

You do realise people work hard in places "other" than london?

MontgomeryClift

The TCD CS degree hadn't much maths when I did it. You wouldn't be able to teach maths in secondary school. They have changed the course though.

My advice is not to do CS at all, especially if you have designs on any kind of life in college and for the rest of your life - I mean a sex life in particular. I'm serious: It's not that few girls do CS, but the whole department you'll be in will be full of heterosexual men and most days in TCD, for example, you might not even lay eyes on the main part of the college where there's a bit of life. Work is just a continuation of that nerd atmosphere.

Just look at the Personal Issues forum - "I'm going on 30 and I just realized I have never even kissed a girl and it's beginning to bother me. I don't meet many people in work and the rest of my day is spent reading or sometimes going places like the cinema on my own. I don't socialise much. I'm not a bad person, really. I think I could love someone. I work in IT..."

nesf

MontgomeryClift wrote:

The TCD CS degree hadn't much maths when I did it. You wouldn't be able to teach maths in secondary school. They have changed the course though.

My advice is not to do CS at all, especially if you have designs on any kind of life in college and for the rest of your life - I mean a sex life in particular. I'm serious: It's not that few girls do CS, but the whole department you'll be in will be full of heterosexual men and most days in TCD, for example, you might not even lay eyes on the main part of the college where there's a bit of life. Work is just a continuation of that nerd atmosphere.

Just look at the Personal Issues forum - "I'm going on 30 and I just realized I have never even kissed a girl and it's beginning to bother me. I don't meet many people in work and the rest of my day is spent reading or sometimes going places like the cinema on my own. I don't socialise much. I'm not a bad person, really. I think I could love someone. I work in IT..."

Eh? I did physics in college which is even more biased towards men being in the class and I had absolutely no trouble meeting women. You aren't restricted to socialising with just your class you know.

I'm not sure what world you are living in but what course you do is not going to prevent you from meeting people of the opposite sex. Simply put, if you are not meeting women (or men) in your course then join a society/club/whatever and meet them that way. You'll find that it isn't the person's course that stops them but themselves.

Etc.

MontgomeryClift

You can, in theory meet people from all over the place but in practice you're far more likely to meet and befriend those in your class or department. I'm just saying it's worth considering. CS in TCD was a disaster. It was like being in an all-boy's boarding school. Seriously though, in TCD at least you bypass the main college area on your way to classes. That weekly lecture in the arts building was like being let out of prison for an hour.

nesf

Tbh I made more friends in college through societies and clubs than I did through my course.

I do appreciate that not everyone is a societies/clubs person, but they are there to be used if you feel you're not meeting enough people, or not meeting varied enough people.

I wouldn't be telling a person not to course X because I thought they wouldn't meet enough women in it tbh.

damnyanks

RicardoSmith wrote:

Its not exactly cheap in Dublin is it? £1 = €1 Seriously!!!

You do realise people work hard in places "other" than london?

Thats generally how it is in the city (Zone 1) go outside and it gets a lot cheaper. I know people work hard outside of London... I did live and work in Dublin for 20 years

But from what I've seen everyone in my office leaves at 7 minimum most nights. When working as a developer in Dublin people were out the door 5 - 5:30

Civilian_Target

nesf wrote:

Eh? I did physics in college which is even more biased towards men being in the class and I had absolutely no trouble meeting women. You aren't restricted to socialising with just your class you know.

I'm doing Comp Sci and Physics, and you may find this hard to believe, but there's actually more talented women in Physics than Computers. And I get along much better with the physicists than the computers guys, the atmosphere's more relaxed and they're more sociable - you'd never go out for Friday afternoon pints in Computers...

nesf

Civilian_Target wrote:

I'm doing Comp Sci and Physics, and you may find this hard to believe, but there's actually more talented women in Physics than Computers. And I get along much better with the physicists than the computers guys, the atmosphere's more relaxed and they're more sociable - you'd never go out for Friday afternoon pints in Computers...

It was a 20 to 3 ratio in my class or sth.

finlma

MontgomeryClift wrote:

The TCD CS degree hadn't much maths when I did it. You wouldn't be able to teach maths in secondary school. They have changed the course though.

My advice is not to do CS at all, especially if you have designs on any kind of life in college and for the rest of your life - I mean a sex life in particular. I'm serious: It's not that few girls do CS, but the whole department you'll be in will be full of heterosexual men and most days in TCD, for example, you might not even lay eyes on the main part of the college where there's a bit of life. Work is just a continuation of that nerd atmosphere.

Just look at the Personal Issues forum - "I'm going on 30 and I just realized I have never even kissed a girl and it's beginning to bother me. I don't meet many people in work and the rest of my day is spent reading or sometimes going places like the cinema on my own. I don't socialise much. I'm not a bad person, really. I think I could love someone. I work in IT..."

What a stupid reason for not choosing a course. You do a course cause its what you want for your career and not to pick up women.
You must be pretty sad if thats your reasoning and also if you can't pick up women outside of your class.
There's a big bad world out there full of women.

Pick a course for the merits of the course and not the women on it.

MontgomeryClift

finlma wrote:

What a stupid reason for not choosing a course.

You need to learn how to reply without using inflammatory language like that. Try importing the manners and etiquette - if you have any - of everyday speech into your forum posts.

The OP mentioned social life as a concern, by the way.

Slutmonkey57b

TCD, UL and DCU are all good courses, butthe employer's favourite is always going to be DCU, purely for the work experience part. It's the same in any industry you join after college, the degree is just paper proof that you've sat listening to someone. You've really got to be able to prove to an employer that you know how to solve problem X using tool Y while dealing with moron Z. Trinity is a great course but realistically it's a course designed to teach you to build and programme a computer from the electrons up (at least when I was doing it). This makes it great if you're planning on going the high-end hardware route, but not so much use if you want to work in software.

AndyWarhol

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

TCD, UL and DCU are all good courses, butthe employer's favourite is always going to be DCU, purely for the work experience part. It's the same in any industry you join after college, the degree is just paper proof that you've sat listening to someone.

Ah yes DCU degrees. They're well trained 'career orientated' drones. Sure it's no wonder the employers love 'em.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

You've really got to be able to prove to an employer that you know how to solve problem X using tool Y while dealing with moron Z. Trinity is a great course but realistically it's a course designed to teach you to build and programme a computer from the electrons up (at least when I was doing it). This makes it great if you're planning on going the high-end hardware route, but not so much use if you want to work in software.

Well you know, 53% of CAO entrants to TCD had 500 points and above last year. And yes, TCD gives you a first principles education so you can think things for yourself. Trinity's research kicks DCU's any day of the week.

damnyanks

AndyWarhol wrote:

Ah yes DCU degrees. They're well trained 'career orientated' drones. Sure it's no wonder the employers love 'em.


Well you know, 53% of CAO entrants to TCD had 500 points and above last year. And yes, TCD gives you a first principles education so you can think things for yourself. Trinity's research kicks DCU's any day of the week.

Why what sort of research is going on at Trinity & DCU ? As far as CAO points go usually I've only ever noticed its Trinity students that believe thats an issue.

comad

Originally Posted by Slutmonkey57b
TCD, UL and DCU are all good courses, butthe employer's favourite is always going to be DCU, purely for the work experience part. It's the same in any industry you join after college, the degree is just paper proof that you've sat listening to someone.

UL has the work experience part to its degree too and its actually 2 months longer thans DCU. Also, if you have a 1.1 from DCU or a 1.1 from UL then any decent employer should know that the UL grad worked way harder for his than the DCU one. Try achieve an average of 85-90% for 3 years like in UL or 70% for the last year.

In short UL rules

finlma

I worked all the university recruitment fares when I was in London and I can safely say that the two most respected IT courses are Computer Systems in UL and BESS in Cork.

BESS grads start on the highest salaries and get the best jobs. Computers are combined with business and thats what a lot of employers want these days with all the outsourcing.

BossArky

Finlma, which year did you finish Comp Sys at UL? 2002? I did Computer Systems at U.L. followed by an M.Sc. Was recruited to France, worked there for 18 months and now based in London. I agree that purely techy's are not as attractive as grads who have IT plus business experience.

The UL work placement from the second half of second year to the beginning of third year gives many UL grads the advantage over others... plus it allows them to get a decent job over the summer between 3rd and 4th year... so by the time they are finished they have had two decent placements....more than likely that 1 or both have been on mainland Europe/UK or US.

At the time I was in UL 98->02 it was regarded as the top computer course in the country, and also the hardest. Original poster you must be talking about Dublin only? UL has a great campus, atmosphere, etc too.