Subscriptions too dear

HelterSkelter

Hi all,

I reckon the subscriptions are too expensive. I think €5 a month/€50 a year is way too much. You would get a lot more subscribers if you reduced it. I think it should be at least half the current price.

Any opinions on this?

seamus

I think €5 a month is nothing. The cost of a single pint. Pittance.

Cabaal

I don't think the problem is the price, I think the problem is people are lazy and don't want to fork out the money OR they don't have a paypal a/c, credit card in order to pay boards.

Beruthiel

good lord man, €50 will get you nothing these days, not even a night on the town!
of course it's not too dear

Talliesin

I agree the need for a paypal account is an issue, but then so is dealing with other means of payment at the level of one of the admins having to actually do so.

€5 a month isn't much given that it's something you pay if you want to see boards have more money in its coffers for doing things and have the money to spare.

blahblah06

how do u join monthly

CuLT

www.3v.ie

\o/


That's what I used to subscribe. Real credit cards, pah!

seamus

CuLT, that is genius. I'm adding that to the How to subscribe sticky.

As far as I'm concerned, the "I don't have a credit card" argument is now moot.

GoneShootin

There are about 140 subbed members at €50 which totals €7000 per annum if they each pay yearly. Do you really think the numbers would increase significantly enough to generate more income?

While I don't think it's currently too expensive (I see it as more of a "thanks for the great site as opposed to using the email/blogs) I don't see a reason why there can't be a promotion of some kind to see how the take up on subs would change.

Talliesin

CuLT wrote:

www.3v.ie

And 3v are jolly nice people too.

GoneShootin wrote:

(I see it as more of a "thanks for the great site as opposed to using the email/blogs)

That's important. As this site grows and there are more people around who don't remember when subscription started it's increasingly important to point out that you aren't buying any goods or services, you are making a donation.

Ol' timers will remember the admins being in the strange situation of people coming up to them and wanting to give them cash, but of not having mechanisms in place for receiving this cash, keeping track of accounts, and so on.

The money you give to boards is given to boards because you want boards to have that money to use.

The benefits you get in return are purely "thank yous" for that money.

In particular people have occasionally wondered if subscribing would get you preferential treatment as far as bans or even sitebans go. The answer is "NO".

GoneShootin wrote:

I don't see a reason why there can't be a promotion of some kind to see how the take up on subs would change.

Agreed. There is a danger of losing site of just what the subscription is all about when new users read about it (this already has happened a bit with the S&S forum, but we don't need to go into that here, the reason the admins made the decision they did is discussed elsewhere plenty, wait until search is back on and go look for it if you didn't catch it the first time), and a perception of subscription as a fee for goods and services rather than a donation could cause problems down the line, so it needs to be stated all the more clearly these days.

rsynnott

Talliesin wrote:

I agree the need for a paypal account is an issue, but then so is dealing with other means of payment at the level of one of the admins having to actually do so.

Can't you get magical fake credit cards of mystery, these days?

GoneShootin wrote:

There are about 140 subbed members at €50 which totals €7000 per annum if they each pay yearly. Do you really think the numbers would increase significantly enough to generate more income?

Is that all?

Baz_

It's definitely not too expensive, and you would really need to carry out some kind of study to say with certainty that if the subscription fee was lower then you would get more subscribers. I don't think it is very common that that is the case.

For me I signed up without a seconds hesitation, well there was hesitation of about a year until I got the money (to spare that is), but as soon as I had it in my account, I donated it to Boards.ie. Boards.ie has been quite a big part of my online life, and I felt it only fair that I should give something back and now that I have I feel much better .

Just thinking though how about making a donation fee of something smaller, and giving a smaller set of extras for the lesser fee. Say €10 a year for tagline and custom avatar, €20 a year for the above and email, €30 a year for above and access to all subscriber forums, €40 a year for the above + picturepost (or whatever its called), €50 a year for everything. And while on the subject, why not make boards webspace subscriber only?

This massively complicates matters, but it may lead to more revenue being generated, and therefore may be worth the effort, and also like most good gateway drugs paying the €10 may lead onto a much heavier subscription abuse later on .

seamus

GoneShootin

rsynnott wrote:

Is that all?

I would consider it a healthy number of totally voluntary donations given the complete lack of advertising and marketing of the subscriber system anywhere on boards. The only link from the homepage to the info is the simple "subsribe" link. You would miss it if you blinked.

Baz_ wrote:

why not make boards webspace subscriber only?

I likes your thinking!

Mr. Presentable

Suggestion:

Turn off the search (I know it's off already) and history functions for non subscribers, and let them know why each time they try to use it.

The cost of a sub is peanuts, except if you are under 16, as I suspect many are, so perhaps a way of generating a junior sub is required.

Lafortezza

spannerhead wrote:

Suggestion:

Turn off the search (I know it's off already) and history functions for non subscribers, and let them know why each time they try to use it.

I think that's a great idea, only drawback is you'd have people posting the same crap over and over again, with the excuse "I couldn't search for it ".
Unless the banhammer was wielded with ferocity I doubt it'd work.

Talliesin

spannerhead wrote:

Suggestion:

Turn off the search (I know it's off already) and history functions for non subscribers, and let them know why each time they try to use it.

I don't like the idea of turning off such useful functions for non-subs. Really once we start messing with what you can do if you're not a sub we start damaging boards. IMO that would be one stretch too far.

spannerhead wrote:

The cost of a sub is peanuts, except if you are under 16, as I suspect many are, so perhaps a way of generating a junior sub is required.

People for whom a fiver a month is a lot are probably rare here, but not entirely unknown. People for whom a fiver a month, and it has to be every month even when you are having a really bad cashflow month are probably more common.

Baz_

spannerhead wrote:

Suggestion:

Turn off the search (I know it's off already) and history functions for non subscribers, and let them know why each time they try to use it.

The cost of a sub is peanuts, except if you are under 16, as I suspect many are, so perhaps a way of generating a junior sub is required.

I think thats a terrible idea, a site without a search function does not get many return visitors, I would have been out of here long ago if that was the case.

damien

seamus wrote:

Hmmm, there seems to be this pervading attitude that boards.ie will die a death if people don't become subscribers. From the figures we see here boards.ie takes in €7k yearly from subscribers. Boards.ie also takes in €100-€200 a month from the commercial interaction forums and takes in other cash from the banner ads. Hosting for boards.ie is still free I believe?

There seems to be a guilt trip of sorts that the site is getting too big and people are somehow using it too much so they should cough up cash. All these ideas of denying people basic functionality like removing the search option is punishing people who make the site what it is. These are the people that generate the content, generate the threads and bring other people to boards.ie

If boards.ie does die it will not be because of too many people using it, it will not be because people didn't provide enough money to keep it going, it will instead be because the owners allowed it to do so by not making it pay for itself.

WhiteWashMan

50€ isnt too much when you consider the product being sold, and they types of customers. infact, i would say you could probably double it, we would still pay for it.
its a value based sale, not a price based one.

WhiteWashMan

damien.m wrote:

There seems to be a guilt trip of sorts that the site is getting too big and people are somehow using it too much so they should cough up cash.

i cant say i have ever come across that sort of attitude from anyone who is either an admin, or anyone who has been here for any amount of time.

Baz_

damien.m wrote:

Hosting for boards.ie is still free I believe?

I believe quite the opposite, in fact I'm not aware of a time it ever was free...

<edit>Just in case I'm wrong, and therefore just before I get jumped on , I did say I believe there. Although I would like to be sure, if anyone feels like confirming the above.</edit>

damien.m wrote:

There seems to be a guilt trip of sorts that the site is getting too big and people are somehow using it too much so they should cough up cash. All these ideas of denying people basic functionality like removing the search option is punishing people who make the site what it is. These are the people that generate the content, generate the threads and bring other people to boards.ie

If there is, it's certainly not coming from them that count (the admins), and it is certainly not intended to be the case. I would go out on a limb and suggest that it's the very reason the admins don't push too hard the subscription issue.

As regards basic functionality, again the admins didn't suggest this, and I really can't see it ever happening, I agree most sincerely with your other point there.

damien.m wrote:

If boards.ie does die it will not be because of too many people using it, it will not be because people didn't provide enough money to keep it going, it will instead be because the owners allowed it to do so by not making it pay for itself.

Again, you're putting words in the admins mouth's, I don't think boards.ie is even close to developing a death rattle, and with some of the new revenue streams opened up, I don't think it ever will. That is why I believe the admins aren't pushing subscription/donation. I for one would support them if they ever did decide to though.

Just to reiterate though, turning off basic bulletin board functionality would be considered a bad thing. By me at the very least.

Beruthiel

damien.m wrote:

All these ideas of denying people basic functionality like removing the search option is punishing people who make the site what it is

well in fairness damien, I understood that it's only removed for a while till Regi connects up the two new servers.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm finding boards really slow these days, especially round lunchtime and after, this I believe, is one of the reasons for removing the search engine for now.

damien

Beruthiel and others: Apologies if my comment made it look like I was taking a swipe at the admins for removing search. I was not. I understand why that happened. That was a comment on spannerhead's (what an apt name) idea to remove it in order to make people subscribe.

Baz_

damien.m wrote:

That was a comment on spannerhead's (what an apt name)

Teeheehee

seamus

Baz_ wrote:

Just to reiterate though, turning off basic bulletin board functionality would be considered a bad thing. By me at the very least.

100%
There is nothing quicker to make me leave a set of forums than being prompted to signup or pay when I click on things like search or user profiles.

Cloud

We don't want no stingey whiners in our Subscriber areas, so it's probably as well that you don't subscribe.

GoneShootin

damien.m wrote:

Apologies if my comment made it look like I was taking a swipe at the admins for removing search.

That's why the QUOTE button is such a handy gizmo, stops this confusion

boards.ie damien.m

Cake Fiend

I cannot fathom how less than 14c per day to support boards could be considered 'way too much'. Most people would probably not even be bothered picking up 14c off the street.

Beruthiel

damien.m wrote:

That was a comment on spannerhead's (what an apt name) idea to remove it in order to make people subscribe.

oopps
I missed that bright idea

Mr. Presentable

Baz_ wrote:

I think thats a terrible idea, a site without a search function does not get many return visitors, I would have been out of here long ago if that was the case.

You're probably right Baz, although there has been no search for anybody for a while now.........

Mr. Presentable

Of course it's a terrible idea, but how about making a suggestion of your own while bashing mine The fact of the matter is that if you want to sell something you can't give it away for free (and yes, I understand it as a donation rather than a purchase, but the S & S forum is treated as a perk for subbed users), and call it what you will, there is a product here to be exploited for the good of the company/community.

Baz_

I have made many suggestions and luckily enough (when the search function is turned back one) you don't have to be a subscriber to search for them. See how handy it is alread?

You made a suggestion, I gave my opinion on your suggestion, but luckily enough for you my opinion means nada compared to say clouds, so I wouldn't get too hung up on what I think tbh.

Chong

Subscription is excellent because you the user gets some nice new features and boards get some much needed revenue to keep this great place ticking over.

I find the 3 months option to be my fave I have just topped my account for another 3 months.

ecksor

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i cant say i have ever come across that sort of attitude from anyone who is either an admin, or anyone who has been here for any amount of time.

Agreed, but some users have been known to pull the "you're not even a subscriber" card when in the middle of some debate or other about how boards is working.

Talliesin wrote:

I don't like the idea of turning off such useful functions for non-subs. Really once we start messing with what you can do if you're not a sub we start damaging boards. IMO that would be one stretch too far.

Agreed.

Boards does want to make money, but hobbling features isn't how we want to do it. The basic features that you have now as a registered user should always be available. Obviously right now we have to disable the search for practical reasons, but once we've upgraded that should be back.

ecksor

damien.m wrote:

Beruthiel and others: Apologies if my comment made it look like I was taking a swipe at the admins for removing search. I was not. I understand why that happened. That was a comment on spannerhead's (what an apt name) idea to remove it in order to make people subscribe.

No offence taken here, I happen to agree with the general sentiment and Regi posted words to that effect quite recently.

Hugh Hefner

Baz_ wrote:

Just thinking though how about making a donation fee of something smaller, and giving a smaller set of extras for the lesser fee. Say €10 a year for tagline and custom avatar, €20 a year for the above and email, €30 a year for above and access to all subscriber forums, €40 a year for the above + picturepost (or whatever its called), €50 a year for everything. And while on the subject, why not make boards webspace subscriber only?

With a bit of re-jigging as to what amount equals what extras I think this would be really good. It would make subscribing more versatile and attract people.

The problem would be that newer users might see it as more of a sales tool/pitch than just an effort do make donating more friendly. Meh, screw them. Lol.

The General

So what do you get access to when you subscribe? This is the first i have heard of these subscriptions! I would probably subscribe if boards wasn't as slow as a tractor driving down the m50

Beruthiel

the general
there is a thread in the Newbies/FAQ forum on how to suscribe

btw
animated sigs are against boards rules

GoneShootin

I would probably subscribe if boards wasn't as slow as a tractor driving down the m50

Would be a hell of a lot faster if people didn't have to load your crappy animated signatures....

gandalf

€50 too much!!!!!

So I guess HelterSkelter won't be buying anyone a pint at the next boards beers eh :rolleyes:

Hobbes

damien.m wrote:

wrote some stuff

Am I the only one who took that banner as a joke?

Btw, love how you think. Make the search option a subscriber only option. Pure genius.

WhiteWashMan

ecksor wrote:

Agreed, but some users have been known to pull the "you're not even a subscriber" card when in the middle of some debate or other about how boards is working.

.

well, i havent seen that, but if that is so, then im not sure why someone would say it.
being a subscriber doesnt give you access to boads.ie inner access as far as im aware (otherwise, im missing out on some fun!) but to add a few bits and pieces and to show our support towards something we believe in.

[Jackass]

Heh, it's weird, because I was just reading about this on SA.

The bottom line is that boards provides a great service, it's a great community, I think anybody who uses it frequently has a moral obligation to support it, and pay for it. It's like an un-written contract or something...

(Before you point out I have no subscription, I am aware of that! I am in the limbo phase of just left being a student, but havn't got a job yet....eating is a chore, so €50 is A LOT of money to me right now But I deffenatly will in the future.)

But I think boards has overshot the mark on this one. If we're talking about value for money, then they havn't, but if we're talking about realistic circumstaces, very few people are willing to pay €50 quid a year for a shiny star above their name and to read about sex, when they can get the milk for free. (does that even make sense?) The only people who would do that are the type of people you wouldn't want as a subscriber.

Look at something awful .... Origionaly lowtax made a $10 lifetime subscription, and not to raise money, it was becasue of one guy who spammed the forum repeatedly...he was insane and completely random...he would register as Triangle man, and, for no apparent reason, post pictures of triangles in every thread, and 8-ball man...and I'll let you figure out what he did with that...but he did this in the space of a month, and set up literally hundreds of accounts....so they banned his username, he'd change it, and re-register, they banned his email, he'd change it and re-register, they'd ban his I.P., he'd re-register by proxy....so they thought, he wouldn't pay $10 every time for 1 quick joke and get banned and lose his money...

So that is why S.A. is probably the biggest general interests forum in the world....because most muppets don't have credit cards...and most people won't pay to spam. And since it's a small manageable amount ($10) and it's for life, every user will pay up...plus it improves the quality of the forum hugely also, no offense to the guy, but you wouldn't get these shrimp charecters.

If anything, a small one time fee will raise infinatly more money for boards, because imagine you had 3 quaters of your current members paying €10, or one tenth of your current subscribers paying €50 .... plus the forum would get better ...

My 2c .... you'll never get enough people to pay a sum as large as €50 for no appart reason, and do it every year, and for something they can get for free in a million other places...

But a once off payment of €10, most people would do it to keep availing of the boards service perminantly, and it's not a massive amount of money to most people...but all adds up for you.....

rsynnott

DubGuy wrote:

The bottom line is that boards provides a great service, it's a great community, I think anybody who uses it frequently has a moral obligation to support it, and pay for it. It's like an un-written contract or something...

Nonsense; the ads do that. Sure, you're being nice when you subscribe, but moral obligation? Don't think so.

DubGuy wrote:

So that is why S.A. is probably the biggest general interests forum in the world....because most muppets don't have credit cards...and most people won't pay to spam. And since it's a small manageable amount ($10) and it's for life, every user will pay up...plus it improves the quality of the forum hugely also, no offense to the guy, but you wouldn't get these shrimp charecters.

He's a LONG, LONG way from being the most annoying user...

[Jackass]

You tip taxi drivers, waitresses, porters and countless other people for services you're alredy paying for...but are unwilling to pay for something you use frequently, that someone else is paying money to provide to you, and has spent countless hours working on it for you....I think there is a moral obligation there, yes :rolleyes:

And shrimps not really the point (sorry if he's reading), I just mean spammers and people who drag treads into immature insults and general BS , instead of everybody being able to just have a laugh.... I think it's made the mods far to heavy handed in some circumstances, but I can't blame them, for all the crap that is spewed around this place...sometimes it's difficult to distinguish a muppet comment from a sarcastic one.

[edit] And also, the ads could do that....but how many adds have you seen on boards in the last year?
The odd inocuois banner above a thread and that's it. If they wanted, they could have 6 popups between logging in and reading your first post...but that's not what the site is about, and it would just become another commercial hell hole, and lose all sense of community, people would leave...and the whole thing would gradually implode.[/edit]

GoneShootin

DubGuy wrote:

You tip taxi drivers, waitresses, porters and countless other people for services you're alredy paying for

I dont!

But while your point is a good one DubGuy, I cant see it working for boards.ie as there just isnt the traffice to warrent it, nor the global reputation. I'd love to know what the user numbers were like before and after the introduction of the registration fee.

Extreme idea - if you get banned from a forum you must pay a fiver to regain access. Just pray for fair minded mods and ones that don't ban folk for just anything. Could encourage mods to be careful when banning people aswell perhaps.

gandalf

GoneShootin wrote:

.....
Extreme idea - if you get banned from a forum you must pay a fiver to regain access. Just pray for fair minded mods and ones that don't ban folk for just anything. Could encourage mods to be careful when banning people aswell perhaps.

I like this and they could put the mods on commission, lets say 20%... a nice little earner on the politics forum

rsynnott

GoneShootin wrote:

Extreme idea - if you get banned from a forum you must pay a fiver to regain access. Just pray for fair minded mods and ones that don't ban folk for just anything. Could encourage mods to be careful when banning people aswell perhaps.

Argh! No! "Oh, look, I'm an idiot troll with more money than sense! I come back and back and back!" It's bad enough when a few manage it by changing names".

And I think that most mods (at least on the forums I view) are extremely reasonable at the moment. You will note it's generally the irritating and/or disruptive people banned.

WhiteWashMan

DubGuy wrote:

Heh, it's weird, because I was just reading about this on SA.

The bottom line is that boards provides a great service, it's a great community, I think anybody who uses it frequently has a moral obligation to support it, and pay for it. It's like an un-written contract or something...

(Before you point out I have no subscription, I am aware of that! I am in the limbo phase of just left being a student, but havn't got a job yet....eating is a chore, so €50 is A LOT of money to me right now But I deffenatly will in the future.)

But I think boards has overshot the mark on this one. If we're talking about value for money, then they havn't, but if we're talking about realistic circumstaces, very few people are willing to pay €50 quid a year for a shiny star above their name and to read about sex, when they can get the milk for free. (does that even make sense?) The only people who would do that are the type of people you wouldn't want as a subscriber.

Look at something awful .... Origionaly lowtax made a $10 lifetime subscription, and not to raise money, it was becasue of one guy who spammed the forum repeatedly...he was insane and completely random...he would register as Triangle man, and, for no apparent reason, post pictures of triangles in every thread, and 8-ball man...and I'll let you figure out what he did with that...but he did this in the space of a month, and set up literally hundreds of accounts....so they banned his username, he'd change it, and re-register, they banned his email, he'd change it and re-register, they'd ban his I.P., he'd re-register by proxy....so they thought, he wouldn't pay $10 every time for 1 quick joke and get banned and lose his money...

So that is why S.A. is probably the biggest general interests forum in the world....because most muppets don't have credit cards...and most people won't pay to spam. And since it's a small manageable amount ($10) and it's for life, every user will pay up...plus it improves the quality of the forum hugely also, no offense to the guy, but you wouldn't get these shrimp charecters.

If anything, a small one time fee will raise infinatly more money for boards, because imagine you had 3 quaters of your current members paying €10, or one tenth of your current subscribers paying €50 .... plus the forum would get better ...

My 2c .... you'll never get enough people to pay a sum as large as €50 for no appart reason, and do it every year, and for something they can get for free in a million other places...

But a once off payment of €10, most people would do it to keep availing of the boards service perminantly, and it's not a massive amount of money to most people...but all adds up for you.....

2 things though.

1) its free to post here

2) the people that pay for it, are not just casual posters. the vast majority are people who have invested a lot of their time and themselves in boards.ie. there are very few people who have subscribed simply to gain access to the sex and sexuality forum. and if they have, they should demand their money back tbh.

[Jackass]

I know, but i'm suggesting everyone has to pay a one time fee of €10 to set-up an account, but it remains free to read. I'm making the point that, as it stands, there isn't much of a product being offerd for the paid subscribers compared to what you get for free, and €50 on a continuos basis is a lot o money for that.
All current subscribes probably did it to make a donation, not to buy a product.

Make boards.ie the product, but at an extremely reasonable price, to achieve the following objectives:
1/ The quality of posts.
2/ Irradicate spam.
3/ A much improved income for the admin for running costs.
4/ The relaxation of moding standards.
5/ An economicly more sustainable site.

It could probably be phased in...make AHs, personall issues, and some other popular forums postable only by subscribes to the €10 plan, and gradually phase it in to all the forums, whilst also having a €10 one time fee for all new accounts set up with immediate effect.

Also, I think it's important you can still read everything, unlike the way it is with sex and sexuality, because it draws the potential client in, and if they want to get involved, will shell out the €10, and are far more likely to do that, then shell out €50 every year for far less.

It also makes it more attractive to advertisers imo, not that boards needs much help with demand for that i'm sure.

[edit] I'm sure if you took a poll and asked everybody if they would pay a tenner tomorrow to still be able to post on boards, and to make sure it stays around, almost everybody would....but very few people are buying into the current system...i'm not trying to criticise, as an excellent job has been done with the site...im just offering constructice criticisim because I think the current subscription format is highley flawed, has little incentive to the regular user, and is very one sided to the user and not the site. I understand the admins desire to keep it new user friendly, and maintain the community, but I think if anything, what i'm suggesting would improve that.

It's just my opinion, and I'm just trying to be helpful.
[/edit]