Spin 103.8

Riamfada

Tha Jack and Ali show (not intellectual caviar i know) Were talking about arts students being

1)Easy to get in the Sack
2)Wasters doing a cop-out degree

Well I called in, if anyone was listening and argued that we are not all wasters but have chosen the course out of interestet. Also I didnt have much to say against the point that Art students were easy. Havnt been with any yet. "DOnt Sh*t where ya eat".

Anyone hear me on the radio on thursday? Do YOU think Arts is a cop out degree?

panda100

ah jack and ali!was on it last year talking bout cycling in dublin-jack was alright but that ali one was asking the most stupidest questions-love joe and keith .Its a bit of a d4 station though-what with their r+b,that cliona o'leary and such. Ah come on arts students are kinda wasters-u only have a few hours a week for gods sake-but they arent the easiest by a long shot-ag science wins that hands down.

Mr.Nice Guy

I didn't hear you Grimey but I'm in agreement with you. I get that all the time from my friends. 'Arts is easy', 'Arts is for bums' etc. Just do what I do and remind them that John Bruton, former Taoiseach, did an Arts degree in UCD. He did pretty well out of it.

Also I think Michael McDowell did an Arts degree in UCD though I can't confirm that.

Anyone know of any other famous Irish people who did an Arts degree in UCD? I know Dave Fanning did one but I don't know if he counts.

Dave!

Yeah, Michael McDowell did one (pow!)

beanyb

Argh, I got so annoyed in work today because people kept telling me arts is so easy, and we're such wasters. I was not a happy bunny at all...

We may not have that many hours but we have a hell of a lot of reading and assignments to do outside these hours if you want to do in any way well. I have an essay due in on the 27th and then 2 more on the 28th, call that a light workload? I think not! Actually, I should really be doing those now... Ah well...

And I'm sorry if I picked a wide ranging degree that will actually educate me in more than how to become rich. Do we really need to do a narrow ranging degree that will have forced us to choose what we want to do for the rest of our lives at 17?

The people that annoy me most are the Trinity people that claim they arent doing arts even though they blatantly are. They come out with a BA, they study in the arts block, they do the same subjects that we can do. But because they pick they're subjects before going into college they clearly arent doing arts. Idiots.

/end rant.

panda100

it tis a bit unfair how u get called wasters cos lots of arts student want to do well and study hard.But cum on 3 essays ina month isnt to tough so it is annoying when arts students go on bout how they have to do soooooo much readind and right sooooo many essays!you get just a nice comftorble amount of work to do which is good cos theres no point killing yourself studying in college!

kittenkiller

Looking forward to reading those prescriptions you'll be writing in a few years Panda
Arts is a much less concentrated course than the rest, but still, to do well, you've gotta put in a lot of hours!
& a poor atrs degree is worth about the same as your junior cert, so there's more pressure on us!

Mr.Nice Guy

I have four 9 am starts throughout the week. I have three essays to do by the 25th of October and a 5-10 minute presentation for a politics tutorial for early November.

Easy my arse!

zap

i have 35 hours a week and 3 assignments a week so arts kinda do get off easy

ferdi

so? you knew what your hours would be like when you went for your course, no point in pissing and moaning at arts students cause we do **** all work.

curious_george

Who cares what other people think, they'll never be as enlightened as we are.

LovelyHurling

In the north its not called arts you just do a specific course in whatever, it was very confusing at first, i thought UCD was full of people who were good at drawing (3 artists in my apartment?!) and didnt clear it up til one day i asked one of em "hey why dont they call it arts and crafts?"

kittenkiller

LovelyHurling wrote:

In the north its not called arts you just do a specific course in whatever, it was very confusing at first, i thought UCD was full of people who were good at drawing (3 artists in my apartment?!) and didnt clear it up til one day i asked one of em "hey why dont they call it arts and crafts?"

Bless!
That's so cute!

LovelyHurling

Cute ...what? Hey dont you mean sporting, rugged and tough!!!


No, no I didnt think so.

zap

im not bitching about my hours, I am just saying that Arts student make out they have load sof stuff to do.

beanyb

beanyb wrote:

The people that annoy me most are the Trinity people that claim they arent doing arts even though they blatantly are. They come out with a BA, they study in the arts block, they do the same subjects that we can do. But because they pick they're subjects before going into college they clearly arent doing arts. Idiots.

/end rant.

Main difference is in the name. There's no course that's titled "arts" in Trinity (apart from Art History!), you go into TSM (two subject moderatorship) or else single honours.

Your point about coming out with a BA is irrelevant too - theoretical physicists in Trinity come out with a BA...

panda100

zap wrote:

im not bitching about my hours, I am just saying that Arts student make out they have load sof stuff to do.

Totally agree with zap here.Arts students are constantly going on bout how much they have to do and how they are definatly not wasters but the lady doth protest to much methinks.Any arts students i know are always going on bout how many hours they have just to try and prove that they are not wasters.Like poor grimes going on national radio to try and convince everyone that art students are not wasters!I wish you'd just admit it come on you do have an easier life than most in college.Its nothing to be ashamed of you chose arts just cos you wanted to do it and it suited you but i just wish arts people could admit that they had an easier life than most in college!
oh god im already turning into an arrogant med on my high horse-nooooo!!

arbeitsscheuer

Concur with panda. Especially about "the lady doth protest too much" bit (ppl don't use that quote nearly enough ).

It's an easy life relative to pretty much everythin else you can do in university. But ya can't be completely bone idle.

Unless you're me, but I'm the exception that proves the rule (or some sh*t like that)

Mr.Nice Guy

panda100 wrote:

Totally agree with zap here.Arts students are constantly going on bout how much they have to do and how they are definatly not wasters but the lady doth protest to much methinks.Any arts students i know are always going on bout how many hours they have just to try and prove that they are not wasters.

What do you expect when we're constantly told we're wasters?

panda100 wrote:

Like poor grimes going on national radio to try and convince everyone that art students are not wasters!

'Poor grimes' went on radio as Arts students were being bashed YET AGAIN. I applaud him for sticking up for us!

panda100 wrote:

I wish you'd just admit it come on you do have an easier life than most in college.

Bollocks. It can be incredibly lonely in this course. Try walking a mile in our shoes!

panda100 wrote:

Its nothing to be ashamed of you chose arts just cos you wanted to do it and it suited you but i just wish arts people could admit that they had an easier life than most in college!

Yes we did sign up for this course. We did NOT sign up for abuse and we have a right to defend ourselves from it!

panda wrote:

oh god im already turning into an arrogant med on my high horse-nooooo!!

I'm sayin' nothing!

panda100

The fact that your lonely is probably due to the fact that you dont have much to do in your course so you spend a lot of time on campus doing nothing.Im not even going to say how many hours i have cos its not about who has the most hours and work to do.All i know is that if i did have a relatively small amount of work to do in comparison to others in college i would admit it.I would not go on national radio to defend the fact because i would know in my heart that i have a pretty much easier time in college then those doing law,medicine,engenireeing etc.



I know you have a right to defend your course
but your defence isnt too strong.I do believe the term wasters is pretty harsh maybe but you have to admit that you do have a lot more time to pursue other pursuits in college and have a lot more free time on your hands as a result of the course you picked.I envy you cos i would love to have more time to take a year out and be on the union for a year but with the workload of my course that would be nigh immpossible.

Mr.Nice Guy

panda100 wrote:

The fact that your lonely is probably due to the fact that you dont have much to do in your course so you spend a lot of time on campus doing nothing.

I don't feel lonely this year but I certainly felt lonely last year, primarily due to the fact that the Arts course is huge and it's difficult to see people on a regular basis.

panda100 wrote:

Im not even going to say how many hours i have cos its not about who has the most hours and work to do.

If it isn't, why then did you say earlier : "I wish you'd just admit it come on you do have an easier life than most in college."

If it's not about hours, what makes you think Arts students have an easier life?

panda100 wrote:

All i know is that if i did have a relatively small amount of work to do in comparison to others in college i would admit it.I would not go on national radio to defend the fact because i would know in my heart that i have a pretty much easier time in college then those doing law,medicine,engenireeing etc.

Who are you to define what's easy and what isn't? I have 3 essays by October 25th and a 5-10 minute presentation to give at the start of November. Add that in with four 9am starts (and I live an hour and a half away) coupled with the tutorials I have to do as well as trying to forge a social life in this place. How is that easy?

panda100 wrote:

I know you have a right to defend your course
but your defence isnt too strong.

Please tell me why it isn't strong? I'm dying to find out. All you're doing right now is spewing out a load of sterotypical guff about Arts students which is pretty sad in my opinion.

panda100 wrote:

I do believe the term wasters is pretty harsh maybe but you have to admit that you do have a lot more time to pursue other pursuits in college and have a lot more free time on your hands as a result of the course you picked.

I don't have alot of free time. I live an hour and a half away so if I want to attend clubs or societies in UCD, I have to hang around over here for a good few hours. On a typical day for me, I'm in at 9am and I head for home at 9 or 10pm. I get home at around 11:30. You think that's easy for me? You have no idea about my lifestyle so get off your high horse and stop judging me.

panda100 wrote:

I envy you cos i would love to have more time to take a year out and be on the union for a year but with the workload of my course that would be nigh immpossible.

Be on the union for a year? Who does that? Yet more sterotypical nonsense.

You have plenty of arrogance don't you? I suggest you get off your pedestal. You might fall.

kittenkiller

Christ man!
Do you really think an arts course requires the dedication needed for a medicine degree?????
You're living on a different planet!

Now, humour me here for a bit...
Most arts students can get away doing the minimum amount of work.
The same cannot be sais for any other course.
Other courses have lecturers 9-5 & still have to do readings, revision, course work & study!

In general, arts is the easiest course in UCD.

& as for being lonely last year, perhaps it's because the people you got chatting with didn't like being constantly talked down to, quoted & given out to like their opinion is going to send them straight to hell!!!??

There is no need to bite Panda's head off because she has an opinion on a course other than her own!
All the other faculties have stereotypes & digs thrown at them. Ours is hardly the worst!

Funky

Serious business.

Mr.Nice Guy

kittenkiller wrote:

Christ man!
Do you really think an arts course requires the dedication needed for a medicine degree?????
You're living on a different planet!

I don't believe that was my argument but why let that get in the way of a good rant, eh?

kittenkiller wrote:

Now, humour me here for a bit...
Most arts students can get away doing the minimum amount of work.
The same cannot be sais for any other course.

That's not generalising at all is it? And there's been no incidents of people on this forum having to repeat their Arts exams right? Oh wait...

kittenkiller wrote:

Other courses have lecturers 9-5 & still have to do readings, revision, course work & study!

I don't believe I argued that other courses were easier. On the contrary, I argued against the claim that Arts was easy.

kittenkiller wrote:

In general, arts is the easiest course in UCD.

Nonsense. On what basis do you make that claim?

kittenkiller wrote:

& as for being lonely last year, perhaps it's because the people you got chatting with didn't like being constantly talked down to, quoted & given out to like their opinion is going to send them straight to hell!!!??

I'm quite an easygoing guy by nature actually. I don't talk down to people and berate the courses they're doing, nor do I make snap judgments on what their lifestyle is like based on the degree they are studying.

kittenkiller wrote:

There is no need to bite Panda's head off because she has an opinion on a course other than her own!

I didn't bite her head off. I defended the degree I am doing and defended against the accusation that the course I'm doing is easy. I don't believe it's easy at all. I'm doing politics in second year. Check the figures for those who have failed that last year and tell me it's easy.

kittenkiller wrote:

All the other faculties have stereotypes & digs thrown at them. Ours is hardly the worst!

I do believe Panda has criticised the sterotyping of D4s in the past (which is fair enough) but it smacks of hypocrisy for her to come on here and then proceed to stereotype all Arts students as having it easy.

Don't judge a book by its cover folks.

kittenkiller

Arts is not as difficult as an awful lot of other courses.
So, people who do these other courses think we have it easy.
Having to repeat exams has very little to do with how easy or difficult the course is, it simply reflects on how hard the students have worked throughout the year in most cases!

Sangre

I do 10 hours a week and I'll come out with a law degree.....*BAM*....easy street!

arbeitsscheuer

kittenkiller wrote:

Having to repeat exams has very little to do with how easy or difficult the course is, it simply reflects on how hard the students have worked throughout the year in most cases!

Indeed. I have repeated every year that I've been here, but I still would not dispute the premise that we Arts students have it relatively easy. Indeed, the fact that I'm miraculously still here, in my final year, in Arts, should certainly act as proof that the Arts degree ain't that taxing, mentally or physically.

beanyb

EduMyth wrote:

Main difference is in the name. There's no course that's titled "arts" in Trinity (apart from Art History!), you go into TSM (two subject moderatorship) or else single honours.

Your point about coming out with a BA is irrelevant too - theoretical physicists in Trinity come out with a BA...

Yeah obviously it's not called arts, but it's the same kind of course. They claim not to be wasters like us arts students because they just picked their subjects in advance on the cao.

And yeah, the fact that they get a Batchelor of ARTS is totally irrelevant...

Mr.Nice Guy

kittenkiller wrote:

Arts is not as difficult as an awful lot of other courses.

So what? That's not the issue. The issue is Arts being easy. I don't think it is.

kittenkiller wrote:

So, people who do these other courses think we have it easy.

They are mistaken.

kittenkiller wrote:

Having to repeat exams has very little to do with how easy or difficult the course is, it simply reflects on how hard the students have worked throughout the year in most cases!

LOL! Here were your words kittenkiller:

"Most arts students can get away doing the minimum amount of work.
The same cannot be sais for any other course"

The number of people who have failed Arts in their exams proves that's not the case. As I've said, one of my subjects - politics - has a big failure rate. I guess your argument that you can get away with doing the minimum amount of work is, well, RUBBISH.

Arts is like any degree. You get out of it what you put in. If you think you can get honours by doing very little work then you need your head examined.

Your teeny tiny retort to my post leads me to believe that your argument has been left dead in the water by yours truly.

Not bad for an Arts student eh?

Regards.

arbeitsscheuer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You get out of it what you put in. If you think you can get honours by doing very little work then you need your head examined.

kittenkiller wrote:

Arts is a much less concentrated course than the rest, but still, to do well, you've gotta put in a lot of hours!
& a poor atrs degree is worth about the same as your junior cert, so there's more pressure on us!

Well done Mr.Nice Guy: You just managed to have an argument with, and indeed p*ss off, someone who actually agrees with you. Kudos good sir. Kudos.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Not bad for an Arts student eh?
Regards.

She also does Arts mate.
And cut out that pompous "Regards" sh*t. Just makes you look like an asshole. Unless you are one. In which case, keep it up, you're doing great...

Dave!

SebtheBum wrote:

Well done Mr.Nice Guy: You just managed to have an argument with, and indeed p*ss off, someone who actually agrees with you. Kudos good sir. Kudos.


She also does Arts mate.
And cut out that pompous "Regards" sh*t. Just makes you look like an asshole. Unless you are one. In which case, keep it up, you're doing great...

Yep, you're looking like a bit of a pr*ck here... She's just arguing, you're being particularly hostile.

Jonny Arson

How on earth is MNG is being a pr!ck for standing up for what he believes in?

Stop throwing your rattles out the prams kids! :mad:

If some people have got such a problem and jealousy about the amount of hours, coursework and time off Arts students have here's a piece of advice..... quit your course and do Arts then if it bothers you that much! :rolleyes:

From what I've seen in this thread and with people on campus is that there is a weird ''I'm not in Arts, I'm better than you'' stigma around. The hours or work you have to do doesn't mean your course is any superior to another course.

Is Arts easier than *insert course here*? There's no answer to that one.... it depends on the individual. Some courses suit some people better. You could get 550 points in the LC and find Commerce a hard slog or you could find it a doss. Same with Arts. Someone who could get 475 in the LC could find Arts tough or easy.

Don't forget that Arts has a lower points requirement than the likes of Medicine. Both courses should be suited to people with the abilities of their course requirements. Of course someone with 380 points wouldn't have much of a hope with Medicine but still may find Arts difficult aswell. Despite all of us having the privlege to attend a university we still all have different academic abilities to each other.

Also lets not forget that many of the teachers of today have Arts degrees. Teachers are vital to the education system. If there was no courses out there that thought Irish, English, Geography, French etc. what would they be teaching 12-18 year olds..... engineering? Proof that Arts degrees are important.

I failed Sociology last year after doing all my coursework, going to lectures/tutorials. If it was so easy I would have passed but I didn't.
Subjects in Arts easy? Myth.

Also what careers do you get out of Arts? Well with a basic Arts degree you will certainly need to do more study which IMO is a good thing as you can specialise further in your chosen field and broaden your skills. Also I know people who have degrees in Commerce, Science, Computers who can't find a job and are working in shops.

The whole Arts wasters, easy hours, easy coursework crap is petty. Concentrate on your degree rather than others peoples' degrees.

Arts girls easy in the sack? Sorry oompa loompas don't do it for me!

Riamfada

Is it just me or is every thread in the UCD forum turning into FIGHTS AND BICKERING? . Come on people . Boardsies of UCD unite

Sangre

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

I failed Sociology last year after doing all my coursework, going to lectures/tutorials. If it was so easy I would have passed but I didn't.
Subjects in Arts easy? Myth.

Maybe you're.......stupid?

In conclusion people in arts are smelly, scruffy, lazy and are complete wasters.

The only reason they have an Arts degree is to make other degrees look better in an interview.

'Ugh, I can't people I've just interviewed 50 Arts students....OH BOY A COMMERCE DEGREE....'

FACT.

Riamfada

Sangre wrote:

Maybe you're.......stupid?

In conclusion people in arts are smelly, scruffy, lazy and are complete wasters.

FACT.

Thats a bit of a f*cking generalisation isnt it? How about you take your law degree and shuv it up your ar*e? I wouldnt employee the likes of you no matter what you have under your belt .

PS:I hope you enjoy working practiacally unpaid for six years when you graduate and before you have a real go I dropped out of Law to do arts because in my humble opinion Law was full of hypocritical twats who just wana line their pockets on other people misery.

Funky

Arts students are ALL wasters, every last one of them. They should all dropout and live off the dole.

Sangre

Grimes wrote:

Thats a bit of a f*cking generalisation isnt it? How about you take your law degree and shuv it up your ar*e? I wouldnt employee the likes of you no matter what you have under your belt .

PS:I hope you enjoy working practiacally unpaid for six years when you graduate and before you have a real go I dropped out of Law to do arts because in my humble opinion Law was full of hypocritical twats who just wana line their pockets on other people misery.

Maybe if you used your VAST Arts intellect and read the thread you could use supreme logic to deduce what course I'm doing....do you need a calculator?

And I think I can be assured I'll never work for you. Why would I want to work in Mcdonalds anyway?

Riamfada

Funky wrote:

Arts students are ALL wasters, every last one of them. They should all dropout and live off the dole.

And what exactly is your basis for that?

Riamfada

You have a serious attitude problem. You think you now me eh? You presume to know my motivation to do Arts? You my friend should look in the mirror and you will see the one who is below those who work In McDonalds. PS: A law degree is piss easy. Probably on Par with Arts.

HappyCrackHead

look at it like this.

the people, like those who work for and listen to spin 103.8 probably didnt even get to third level education. They're the losers who started working and didnt get to enjoy life and become remotely as enlightened as many of us are. OK so you dont get many hours of classes in Arts, personally that makes things a tad harded, the burden of work on your own time is much higher.

anyone who knows me knows i get by on doing the minimum. but i worked my ass off to get into college, i could easily have done law or medicine but i wanted to do arts. i probably am a waster because im not a desk monkey working in some poorly air conditioned office drooling all over Niska the bosses polish secretary.

Screw anyone who says Arts is for wasters. If studying the liberal arts was such a waste of time it wouldnt be the oldest secular disipline.

cockmongers

ozt9vdujny3srf

Enough trolling, next trolley post = ban.

enda1

I just find it funny that by the end of my four years in college I come out with a BA, a BAI and a diploma in Maths.

I get the BA that you arts people get plus a real degree!!

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

P.S. and a diploma....

Funky

Grimes wrote:

And what exactly is your basis for that?

Fact.

ps. Check out the arts thread a few down from this :P

Mr.Nice Guy

SebtheBum wrote:

Well done Mr.Nice Guy: You just managed to have an argument with, and indeed p*ss off, someone who actually agrees with you. Kudos good sir. Kudos.

First of all, I don't care if I p*ss her off or not. That's her business. This is not what I'd call us being in agreement:

Me wrote:

You get out of it what you put in. If you think you can get honours by doing very little work then you need your head examined.

kittenkiller wrote:

Most arts students can get away doing the minimum amount of work.
The same cannot be sais for any other course

SebtheBum wrote:

And cut out that pompous "Regards" sh*t.

How ironic that I'm accused of being 'pompous' when I am fighting against a stereotype that Arts students have it easy! Furthermore, you are not a mod so don't tell me what I should and should not write.

SebtheBum wrote:

Just makes you look like an asshole. Unless you are one. In which case, keep it up, you're doing great...

Your opinion means nothing to me as your attitude in recent days towards me has been hostile and derogatory.

Grimes wrote:

Yep, you're looking like a bit of a pr*ck here... She's just arguing, you're being particularly hostile.

With all due respect Grimey me old mate, I think I've kept my cool really well. You don't think she's been hostile towards me? Did you miss this part when I told her I found life as a 1st year last year quite lonely:

kittenkiller wrote:

& as for being lonely last year, perhaps it's because the people you got chatting with didn't like being constantly talked down to, quoted & given out to like their opinion is going to send them straight to hell!!!??

A bit too personal there for my liking though I think I responded o it in a calm fashion.

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

How on earth is MNG is being a pr!ck for standing up for what he believes in?

Stop throwing your rattles out the prams kids! :mad:

Cheers Zane.

I have to say I'm quite saddened and disappointed at the hostile atmosphere around this place at the moment. One minute, threads are being criticised, the next minute generalisations are made against Arts students.

Whatever next guys? Why don't we have a thread on the role of women in society? Let's all get chauvinistic. :rolleyes:

Sangre

Grimes wrote:

PS: A law degree is piss easy.

Sangre wrote:

I do 10 hours a week and I'll come out with a law degree.....*BAM*....easy street!

Oh! That Arts brain working over time again!

Why are you getting so worked up? You're type are usually too lazy to care...I think you need to RELAX!

Anyway, back on topic! My favourite radio stations are lyricfm and 98fm...!!

besty

Newstalk is champion

panda100

Well just from speaking from experience as i lived with 10 different art students over the last four years and they all did a hell of a lot less work than me and the vet girl in the house to pass their years.Im not saying that this is the same for everyone as zane said everyone has different abilities and i respect anyone who works hard to get a good honours degree in arts.But in a lot of courses in ucd you could not get away with doing as little work as some arts students do to get a pass.
Today fm with ray foley in the eve is best sangre!

PiZaRR-0

The one thing in common with many arts students it the "Ive tons of reading to do " line.

Do arts people think that information magically flows into our heads?

Do science people not have to read journals etc.?

Also you get to read nice novels and the like, stuff that people usually do while on the bus.

To be clear on my smartarseness i do believe that some arts people do a lot of work but i think they're the type that would do a lot of work regardless.

Panda said hours are not a factor, which is in somewhat true, but you cant ignore the fact the having more hours adds to your workload ontop of assignments, lab write ups, and essays. I have about 25 hours a week which isnt too bad but i wont be out of the lab this week till 8 every night. We ( as a class ) rarely get out allocated work done in our hours. We also have field trips on weekends so essentially we may not get a day off for 2 weeks, or if were lucky there will be a bank holyday.

Arts is not a wasters course, but it is easier than a lot of course in the science area ( med,sci,eng ).

orangerooster

Jesus. I'm repeating my first year in arts and like Seb I'll admit yes of course we have it a whole lot easier than an awful lot of the other courses in UCD. We have our mostly small hours and the most taxing thing we have to read are critical essays of some great novels which can just be re-worded a fair bit to pass as our own essays.

Its not the rest of the colleges fault you couldnt make friends in first year MNG.Arts is great for making friends, cause in general most of the people in arts are easy going and quite decent to talk to.

Even leading onto this why is it a ****ing competition? I met a fair few people at the boards beers from a fair few faculties and can honestly say I dont have a negative opinion of any of them regardless of faculty. We're all in college and this ****ing rivalry between faculties/schools whatever is the only thing that makes me angry. This is just about the only angry post I've ever made on boards. :mad:

Sorry about the rant its just that this thread is so ridiculous. Jesus what does it matter how hard or not someone has it? All of you I've met have been from different faculties like and as I said I found everyone to be either really sound or quite pleasant. This thread is a joke. :mad:

P.S the term "wasters" does piss me off and kudos to grimes for standing up against the less light-hearted stuff people say about arts but seriously why does it matter?its not a competition.

padser

kittenkiller wrote:

& a poor atrs degree is worth about the same as your junior cert,

so that would make a good arts degree pretty equivalent to a leaving cert??? 3 yrs well spent id say. Also looking at the sheer number of people defending arts degrees makes you wonder if arts students have too much time to be boarding :rolleyes:

Riamfada

Your all so smart