Keeping Cats off the road

Macy

Hi,

Apologies if this has been posted before - search function seems to have gone.

Anyone any advice on keeping cats off roads? Despite our rural location and acres of fields to run in, the two cats have become obsessed with the road in the last week. Having previously lost a cat to a truck, is there anything we can do to train them to stay off it?

We don't really want to limit them with a fence, as if they'd be fine if they'd only go across the bloody fields...

peasant

The only safe way to keep them off the road is a fence (and a cat-proof one at that) or to keep them indoors.

We have the same situation at home ...loads of room out the back, road in front.

We "trained" our cats in a fairly brutal manner. We have a wire cat carrier in which we put them and placed it right next to the road (under supervision, of course). Having trucks and cars roar past only inches from their heads basically scared them big time and was supposed to instill a big fear of cars and trucks into them.

It worked ...but only in two out of three cases. Two cats stay well away from the road but the other one still shows up at the neighbours across the road

Maybe another "training session" is in order for that one ...

So ..other than fencing / locking in cats I'm not aware of any method to keep them away from the road.

If anyone knows a better way ...i'd also be interested to learn about it.

Sigma Force

Cat proof part of the garden or build them a large aviary type enclosure

Arcadian

The only sure fire way of keeping the cats off the road is either to keep them indoors or fence off part of the garden for them which is what i've done for mine.

Macy

Thanks for the advice. We've decided we've just got to let nature take it's course. It'd be too cruel to keep them in, or caged in at this stage. And I don't think either of us have the heart for the rough love cage by the road method.

Arcadian

peasant wrote:

We "trained" our cats in a fairly brutal manner. We have a wire cat carrier in which we put them and placed it right next to the road (under supervision, of course). Having trucks and cars roar past only inches from their heads basically scared them big time and was supposed to instill a big fear of cars and trucks into them.

Are you for real? For someone who claims to be an animal lover this is beyond cruel and as for advising it to others it's extremely irresponsible.

Macy, rather than "letting nature take its course" would you not consider rehoming your cats to a safer environment?

CookieCat

The word regarding putting cats in carriers and leaving at the side of he road must be traveling as fast as the speeding cars. I have a friend who is a Feline behaviorist and was running this "technique" past her today, when she said she had taken a similar call. :eek:

IMO. All that will achieve is making the cats petrified off their carrier and so traumatized that when they do get out disorientated they will probably run and run perhaps on the road. Cats are not the brightest buttons in he box and only learn by repetition, you can at best modify some behavioral patterns.
1 in 4 cats are killed on Irish roads, it is the biggest killer of cats, not disease not euthanasia but roads. Cats do not need to go outside, each cat however must be assessed individually but there are many rescues only re-homing kittens (Where you have barring genetics a blank slate) To indoor homes, with plenty of education and back up.Happy healthy kittens.

Would you tie your dog at the side of the road to teach him?Would you allow your dog to free roam? No...Then why allow cats to?

I look forwards to discussing the reasons cats need to be allowed outside.

AND WHEN DID NATURE DRIVE TRUCKS/CARS.Nature take it's course.

Tabitharose

Macy wrote:

Thanks for the advice. We've decided we've just got to let nature take it's course. It'd be too cruel to keep them in, or caged in at this stage. And I don't think either of us have the heart for the rough love cage by the road method.

Macy
It's not natural in any way for cats to be killed on the road - I have to disagree with your statement about nature taking it's course in that regard.

Please disregard what you have read here about "rough love cage by the road method" it's the most bizarre and wrong thing I've ever heard. You can cat proof a part of your garden so that your cats can have access to the outside without being in any danger. You may feel they are being "caged in" but you could - space permitting - create a large cat run in your garden so they would have a safe outdoor environment without being in any danger.

Macy

Nature taking it's course was perhaps the wrong expression. One of the two has been caught on the road once in the 9 months we have them.

I really don't see how caging them in is natural and as we're surrounded by tree's I don't see the invisible fence being much use (or any less cruel if I put it inside the trees). At this stage it would be cruel to change their access to the outside world imo.

Arcadian - I don't see how we could get a much safer environment. 3 sides are surrounded by acres of fields. I'm not exactly sending them out to play on the M50 - probably just over reacted to one incident where both the cat and us ending up shítting it after a close call.

CookieCat - we don't let them run free all day everyday. They're let out for a few hours a day when we're there and they stay around the garden (we generally call them every half hour or so and they know they have to show their face). Pretty much how you'd let a dog out in your garden - having them outside isn't letting them run free and I resent the implication tbh. If anything is to blame it us for trying to stop her after spotting her heading down the drive - us being there gave her the confidence to push that little bit further.

Christ come on here looking for advice on how to protect a cat and somehow turned into the bad guy... :rolleyes:

Sigma Force

Macy, it only takes a split second for a cat to be hit by a car. As others said 1 in 4 cats are killed on the road. Your cat could easily be killed on the road should you let them roam free.
Cat proofing your garden is a good option if you don't like the idea of a cage.

Also, think about where the cat might go aside from the road, there are a lot of people out there esp. at this time of year looking for cats to torture/throw on bonfires etc. The other thing to consider is you don't knkow where your cat is going, they could be causing a nuisance with neighbours.

The only way in this day and age to keep a cat alive and safe is a cat proof garden, there is no reason for a cat to be bored in an enclosed garden there are plenty of ideas and toys etc that you can use to keep your cat amused, from water features to logs to the usual cat toys, safe plants etc etc.

No matter how many fields you have if there is a road nearby the cat will go across it at some stage, even if the road isn't all that near they can wander off a fair distance.

Not making you out to be a bad guy you came on for advice and above is the advice I would have for any cat owner.

Hope it helps, designing a cat enclosure can be great fun for owner and cat.

CookieCat

It saddens me that cats are so under valued in Ireland by some.
Cats are not hard wired like dogs they to an extent no matter how domesticated retain their natural intrinsic trates. They can't be taught road sense so every time you let your cats outside, you would be as well crossing your fingers and hope they come back.
I never realized the extent of the problem either until I started fostering/volunteering with a cat welfare group.
Out door cats if not killed by traffic face the next biggest killer of cats, which is man him(herself) Not everyone loves cats like we may do and thousands of cats are "disposed of in Ireland every year. For those who do let their cats out to wander. How does your neighbors feel. I have 5 indoor cats that have an access to a run. I live in a quiet area, but I am aware that my neigbour with his beautiful garden may grow to loathe me and my cats if I let them out to sh*t in his garden every day.
Disease is also a factor with out door cats, bites from other cats (Domestic and feral) Can cause at best abscesses and at worst FeLV..Feline leukemia which is a killer and FIV which though manageable is still a wasting degenerative condition that the cat at some point will succumb too, add to that the other feline viruses that free roaming cats are exposed to (Vaccinated or not) Then you have dogs and other dangers to consider.

My post was not to have a go, but to try and offer education as this is an important part of any welfare groups remit.

Cats can and will live happily with a little adjustment inside, for those who are older it can take time (It takes approx 6 weeks to clear a cats memory banks and modify behaviour) This can work if the owner is willing to put a lot of patience and hard work in.
I am sorry if you thought my answer harsh it was not intended to be.
Claire.

jaggiebunnet

Keeping cats inside is not in any sense of the word natural or good for the cats. Yes they may be happy, as a person locked up and fed every day of their life without knowing any better would be happy. But would that person be happier if allowed to enjoy the outside knowing there is a risk they could be killed? Of course the answer would be yes, and cats are the same. If they didn't want to go outside then they wouldn't - pure and simple.

Comparing cats to dogs is a non starter they are very different animals.

What is the point of life if locked up and not able to enjoy the outside? Why do people think that it is punishment for humans to lock them up all day but not for cats?

CookieCat

Maybe it's just me Mr Bunnet But I like to base my opinions on facts not human interpretation or emotions. I am very interested in this thread as to why people "think they need to let their cats out" Apart from the blanket statement "it's not natural and cruel" which is not simply not true, what are the logical/factual/ researched reason for saying that cat should and indeed have to go outside? Many folks have an opinion and indeed I respect that but many opinions are indeed not fact and or researched.
Thanks.

peasant

Reasons for letting cats out:

In my experience / opinion, while cats enjoy company, they also seem to have a desire/need to get time on their own, away from everything now and then. Not so much a need to go out and climb trees / smell the roses sort of thing, but to increase the distance between themselves and the next cat/human to a maximum.

That's why we let ours out anyway. But we only do so because the risk, while being there is considered to be small. Would we live in a town, the cats would just HAVE to stay inside.

So I think there is no principal statement on inside/outside cats but an individual risk assessment. Weighing up the risk of getting killed outside versus the stress of being locked in with very little individual space all the time.

BTW I would agree on not just letting your cats out and forgetting about them, but keep an eye on them and keeping them close by ...can be done.

Sigma Force

There's the word small risk..if there is a risk of your pet getting killed on the road then why risk it. Cats are def. undervalued still big time.

My rabbits have a desire to get out of their enclosure not matter how big it is (and it's big) doesn't mean I am going to risk letting them out on their own.

Vokes

Macy wrote:

Hi,

Apologies if this has been posted before - search function seems to have gone.

Anyone any advice on keeping cats off roads? Despite our rural location and acres of fields to run in, the two cats have become obsessed with the road in the last week. Having previously lost a cat to a truck, is there anything we can do to train them to stay off it?

We don't really want to limit them with a fence, as if they'd be fine if they'd only go across the bloody fields...

Macy, i sometimes put vinegar out in the front driveway to stop our cat from running out on the road. It works pretty well (we're surrounded by thick hedges too) although i don't live in rural area like yourself.

http://www.kitchencraftsnmore.net/vinegar.html

"Using Vinegar for GARDENING & YARD

5. Keep cats away. Sprinkle vinegar on areas you don't want the cat walking, sleeping, or scratching on."

peasant

There's the word small risk..if there is a risk of your pet getting killed on the road then why risk it. Cats are def. undervalued still big time.

I'd wholeheartedly agree on the "undervalued" bit, but i wouldn't wear that shoe myself. Our cats are highly valued, appreciated and cared for. That is why we let them out at all, because we think they need it for their wellbeing.
But we try to do it in as controlled and monitored conditions as is possible.

Risk ...there always is risk.
Cats could also fall of wardrobes, become entangled in cables, swallow a toy, get stepped on, squeezed between doors, climb into washing machines/ dryers etc, etc ...all just indoors.

Sigma Force

Had cats for over 16 years never had one fall off anything or get caught anywhere, doesn't mean I would leave cables lying around for them to do so. There is much higher a risk of a cat getting killed on a road than there is of them having an accident in the home. In the home you can cat proof as best you can and also see what your cat is up to and if they do happen to get caught somewhere you are there to help them out of it.
Not so when they wander across the road.

My opinion (and only mine ok) cats should have cat proof gardens, aviary enclosures attached to the house if possible or be house cats. Then again with people letting their dogs roam all over the streets the chances of talking them into keeping their cat safe isn't as likely.

peasant

How exactly would one cat-proof a reasonable portion (i.e. bigger than an aviary) of ones garden anyway?

Overhanging fence?

jaggiebunnet

I wonder if the same people who advocate locking up their cats incase anything ever happens to them have ever taken a risk in their life? Do they have kids and are they allowed to cross the road on their own?

Ok bit OTT but get a grip FFS. They are cats, they descend from wild beasties and are quite capable of surviving the "terrors" of modern living. Yes traffic is dangerous, and having lost a cat earlier this year to a car accident (the neighbour rolled over our cat in their driveway - not on the road incidentally) I would still leave her out rather than let her sit and watch the outside world from the window. She was better for it - any 100% indoor cats i have known are always lacking something that defines what a cat is. Not a pet - an animal that cohabits with humans coz they get fed and loved.

As for the folk that are throwing cats on bonfires - i hate to think where you live - i am sure it happens but the neighbourhood must be full of dirtbags for that to be a reason not to let a cat out - indeed i don't think i would like to go out in a place like that myself!

CookieCat

I was asked by Claire to offer something to this debate. I don't have the time to join another forum sorry.

Who am I..Hmm good question :rolleyes: . I am a human psychologist who also has a recognized degree in feline behaviour. No this it not someone who wishes to jump on the band wagon of a fast money making service...We have dog trainers/psychologists so why not cats? I have been studying and researching all aspects of feline welfare for over 20 years so this is not a new trend or something I thought up.I have done my time...... I also run a feline rescue, so by offering that sevice I must also know my animal of choice and their needs........From the physical to the emotional, having slight OCD also helps a bit too. :cool:

So this is a very interesting posting and IMO to understand the debate you first need to understand the animal. So far (And not slighting any one for this) All I see is "I think" or "In my opinion" (Which is fine but you ain't a cat) Do I know everything there is to know about cats...Hell no Been doing this for longer than I care to mention and then the little darlings still try and confuse you.I do advocate that cats can be happy and healthy inside or better still, we have cat proofed our garden so my 10 darlings can have the best off both worlds and no my home does not smell of cat pee, nor do I.

So to offer an opinion you have to understand the animal and why it "acts and reacts to it's environment" and how it percieves outside stimuli, and what is it's needs/ drives are.
Can cats be happy safe and well adjusted being inside only? Yes most cats can.(There may be an exception or two but I can hopefully cover that)

Kittens certainly can, as Claire has pointed, out "Barring genetics" you have a blank slate to work with.So it's what YOU instill in that kitten I.E...Boundary's/ Rules what gives YOU the cat that YOU deserve. IMO there is no such thing as a neurotic cat, but I have come across many neurotic cat owners.
On many occasions it is not the cats behavioral patters that need to be modified but that of the owner, we tend to emotionaly "humanize animals" a little too much, this is very different from "behavioral modification".



A cat is "hard wired" primarily to do 2 things...Find food and breed! (It's cuter to neuter) Everything else is secondary to it's needs and hence can be modified or adapted.

A cat will primarily sleep for approx 20 Hours a day. Even if you "stick" the cat outside, it is not off hunting and running through the bracken, it is curled up somewhere asleep.Or running across a busy road.

Hunting. Like dogs(I know very little about dogs so no doggy folks jump down my throat there) Every cat will have a variant level of need...I.E Prey drive. Some cats do have a higher prey drive than others. Also worth noting the prey/hunt instinct has nothing to do with food or feeding it is a totally different drive...Food is a basic motivation as in a need for survival. Hunting is not.Can cats be trained to hunt indoors!!!. (Not Hamsters as that is cruel.)
Yes they can.
Those with a low to medium prey drive can be happy with stimulation in play form...Those frustrating little mice in a round enclosed plastic case is one example (I don't like them as there is no reward for the cat at the end) The cat hunts and chases the mouse. Other items are hanging furry silly things on string round around door handles, fishing rod tools, but then ya see the folks have to spend time with their cat and PLAY with them god forbid.

I recommend a half hour work out through play stimulation every day to pacify the most boisterous cat...Mainly folks can't be bothered though.
Do you know you can get KONGS for cats...A smaller similar version to the dog Kong, this is also a useful stimulant for the cat while folks are out at work, a few hidden around the house during the day time works wonders.Video's for cat...Has she lost the plot now you ask ...No..You can get wild life long playing videos that contain both audio and visual stimulation for cats..Cat's are naturally lazy animals they have their mad half hours usually 2 "slots" per day..Around 11 am and 8 Pm at night, in between time they are snoozing.And yes you can if you are that way inclined teach your cat to fetch and bring back.

A cat with a high prey drive can also be re programmed by using what we call live meat...Well it's actually dead meat..Red meat as in a little steak (Some behaviourists say put it in the micro wave first to blast it, but I think we can sanitize things a little too much) If given this can be enough to take the edge off the drive...Failing that it's frozen chicks which are not for the faint hearted.(Do not feed to kittens under 9 months)

Note to the above.....If you say my cat would not play with those there mouse things, then your cat will have a low prey drive and does not have the need to hunt Ah...But why does it bring in mice then?...That's the common question folks throw back, and to be honest...I think they are just trying to justify to themselves the cats need out.

Why cats should not be allowed to hunt outside...Rats carry a few diseases that are not species specific and can infect your cat. Rodents may have ingested poison and through contact may contaminate your cat

And cats unlike dogs adapt to the space they are given. A neutered/spayed cats territory is actually very small. You are talking about 150 yards square.Unlike an UN neutered Tom who may travel up to 7 miles impregnating the lady cats as he goes. So Out door or in door? Is it cruel or not?



Today, we understand the hazards of allowing cats to roam freely, either by personal experience, hearsay, or through the media, including the Internet. Here are just a few of the outdoors dangers, although not an exhaustive list.

The risk of contracting killer diseases, including FIV, FeLV, and FIP
Injury and/or death from attacks by dogs, other cats, or predators
Injury or death from vehicles
"Cat-napping" for profit, or personal gain
Trapping and disposal by cat-hating neighbors ..Cats pooing in their garden.This is a big issue and we get a lot of calls about this.
Torture and/or killing by thone mad folks.
Confiscation by animal control authorities..Pest control in Ireland can and do trap domestic cats mistakenly for feral cats.

I don't re home kittens to out door homes.Due to the above and due to the fact that an out door cat will have on average a 6 year life span (Yes there are exceptions that and I am sure you will all tell me)

Some of our kittens do not have the best start in life, they have been hand reared fed every 2 hours to keep them alive so from a purely selfish point. I ain't going to hand them over to someone who will let them out to "possibly be harmed" Do I find it hard to re home my kittens? Actually no, as we arm all our potential adopters with plenty of information and back up. We are at the end of the phone 24/7 NO ANSWERING MACHINE. To talk one to one.Are all our kittens well adusted?None have come back so far, or have gone loopy through bordem....That's down to the owners though.

We re home healthy vet checked vaccinated kittens, and in return we ask for that kitten to be loved and cared for, for the rest of it's life which should be well over 20 years.
(An aside) We did a poll on Grafton street a few years ago. The findings were that folks thought the average age of a cat was 6.

So before I write a book, I am off. I am not berating any one for having an out door cat...Though if I may be so bold :cool: .......My knickers were well in a twist about the carrier at the side of the road thing...Please do not try that at home.

Older cats can re programmed to stay indoor happily it takes time around 6 weeks you may be driven up with wall with "inappropriate behaviour" but if you can weather the storm and use diversional therapy it can work.And maybe I can come back to this.

The above was only offered to show that there is alternatives to having cats out doors and an indoor cat can be a happy well adjusted cat....If your cat is not...Well give me a call. Take care all and be kind to your cats.

peasant

CookieCat

Thanks for that lengthy post. Always good to hear from someone who obviously KNOWS what they are talking about. Lots of food for thought there...

And as for your tied knickers ( ) ...if it consoles you any, this was only done once, for five minutes and under my supervision. Other than a good scare no harm came to the cats.
I did that when they were young and just started to explore outside and seemed a bit too interested in the road for my liking.
I'd like to point out again (in case it wasn't clear enough in my original post) that I do not recommend this as a "method" ...but i couldn't think of something better at the time.

For us keeping the cats indoors is not an option. They would be confined (all three of them) to one room all the time. We have a dog (which was here first) who doesn't really get on with cats and the cats are scared of him, so we have to keep them separate.(the other dogs are fine, as they were introduced to the cats as puppies ...no probs there)
We didn't actively go out and "get" cats ..they were all dropped into our laps (or rather into the hedge) as tiny kittens and we just ended up keeping them as no homes could be found. They are all well cared for and spayed and if outside hardly ever go out of sight. The road is about 30 meters away.

Just one more thing ...how DID you cat-proof your garden?

Tabitharose

http://www.fabcats.org/fencing.html

http://www.rentafence.ie/rentafence1/Main/Site_Compound.htm

will give you some ideas about creating a cat - proof garden

Irish-Lass

Have 3 cats and ALL are house cats we also have a dog as well. 2 of my cats are 4 and the other one is 2.........my cats lack for nothing and in fact 2 of them have absolutely no interest in going out.......has been tested back door left open they sit in the door way...I know one of our cats would like to be out....but we live in a housing estate we have a very busy road near us and have seen dead cats on it.......the cats are part of our family and someone made a comment about people who keeps cats in have they not taken risks etc.....well turn it around would you open your front door to a child and say off you go, go play chicken with the cars...........stronger possibility is that the cars would slow down if they seen kids playing at the side of a road where if they see a cat some speed up.

I would hope that people who have been to my house (Tabitarose being someone who has) would see cats that are not lacking anything.

As for cats not getting on with dogs and vice versa.....we only have our dog 9 months and yes at first the cats were put out and afraid of the dog but with supervision and a lot of patients our dog now adores the cats and vice versa.........at night they all sleep on the bed and lounge around with each other. So cats and dogs getting on can be done if you really want it.

At the moment I WOULD NOT have an outdoor cat as the risks I would be putting them at is too high........that might change if we ever moved to a remote place but don't think the chances of that happening....all are cats and fit and healthy and they lack nothing by not going out

peasant

So cats and dogs getting on can be done if you really want it.

Just on that point ...not if the dog doesn't want it. Ours came with an unknown history. We guess that somebody actually made him chase cats at some point. The rescue we got him from said he was fine with cats ...but boy were they wrong. We have reached a point now where he doesn't immediatedly lunge for them any more and more or less tolerates them ...still wouldn't trust him one inch if left alone near a cat ...and neither do the cats ...clever as they are.

If you want to be absolutely sure that a dog gets along with cats it has to grow up with them. Otherwise it might or might not work ...there is no guaranteed way of making it happen.

CookieCat

The flip side of this are "Dog friendly Cats".The dogs get a raw deal sometimes and It is a responsible owner that recognizes their dog may not be cat tolerant and sometimes with all the training in the world they will never be.

Since I started to foster I have had a few cats that I would term as LEATHAL to dogs. I have a friend who posted on the out door cat thread, who is very good at re programing cats (Given time) But sometimes it just won't work. And many a poor dog has become badly injured through falling foul to a dog hating cat. So it works both ways.This seems to happen with the kinder folks who have cats/kittens stroll into them or find their way to them. They feel sorry for the animals plight and decide to give them a decent home and in return the furry fiend decides the dog is fair game. :eek:
Claire.

Tabitharose

Irish-Lass wrote:

I would hope that people who have been to my house (Tabitarose being someone who has) would see cats that are not lacking anything.

Have been to Irish-Lass's house met the cats & dog in residence - all get on very well together, the cats are so loved & so contented, they lack nothing in being house cats. One very happy household

the_syco

Bottles of water. Cats fear them. Line the garden with them and the cats won't go beyond them.

Arcadian

Save your water i say!

Nothing short of an enclosed run or cat proof fence is going to keep cats off the road

Irish-Lass

Tabitharose such a sweetie will pay you later

My cats have no fear whatsoever of water in bottles one in particular Kissy will roll the bottle around to get the water to move,

Tabitharose

Irish-Lass wrote:

Tabitharose such a sweetie will pay you later

payment will be gratefully received in the form of bottles of the blue stuff

Irish-Lass

Tabitharose wrote:

payment will be gratefully received in the form of bottles of the blue stuff

and if your very good might even make you ice pops of them

Shewhomustbe...

Have no idea how true this is but I was told that in Paris a cat is only allowed out if on a lead, with their owner
This could be a good way to stop the frighteningly high number being killed.

Arcadian

And in some cities in the US it's illegal to let your cat wander off your property. If only that were the case in Ireland ! My own cats are not free to roam but my neighbours cats have destroyed my front garden and the smell of cat urine is unbearable. But they are of this stupid frame of mind that cats need their freedom etc. I have tried pointing out to them that if their cats are getting up my nose so much, as a cat lover, then they are also annoying others and it's only a matter of time before some takes matters into their own hands and puss doesn't turn up for dinner