Question on Heads Up & First Time at the Fitz

Ollieboy

Well I finally went to the Fitz this week and played in the 50 euro Double Chance. I play nice and tight and won a few hands to keep my head above water. I was nearly always the 2nd or 3rd smallest stack on the table, but when I did bet, most people fold, due to my tight play. This was fine, as it let me keep my stack at a constant level, around the 5k mark.

When we got to the bubble, it was a toss up between me and another player on the 2nd table, but with a few good calls and bluffs, I finally got to the last table.

Now the last table had 2 very large stacks, 4 – 5 medium stacks and than 2 – 3 small stacks. I would guess I was the smallest stack with about 5600k. I only had enough to pay for two to three blinds at this stage. The table was very tight and anyone who bet usually went all in. This helps me to move from 9 positions to about 7th position without even playing a hand. But at this stage, I felt with a few careful plays and a change in tactics to aggressive style, I figured I could win the game or move up in the placings.

So very quickly I was starting to win the blinds with medium to good cards and knocking players out with allins. I was dealt some big hands at this stage. With 4 players left, I was the biggest stack and had taken a lot of chips from the two big stacks on the table that had gone card dead at this stage.

I than got a pair of 9’s, the small stack went all-in and the 3rd place player call, I than came over the top of this player, but he decided to call and showed Ace Q. A q land on the river card, for him to take the pot. I thought this was a bad play, as he risks a nice payout, but it end up been a good call. I think I would have laid down my cards do if I was in his position. I loss a lot of chips to him and this now place him as chip leader. I did nearly did lay down my 9’s as I knew they would have over cards, but I felt at this stage, I could win any hand.

I was playing very confident at this stage and had my eyes on the 1k first prize, even do I was the smallest stack. I had done a deal on the way in with a friend to do a 50/50 split on winnings; this was only to give the night more interest for both of us. We never really thought either of us would win anything.

The stack size’s where the following:

Me 39000
Player 1 50000
Player 2 60000

It was now 2:30 and the other 2 players want to do a deal, I felt that the prize fund was so small and the game nearly over, that it would be better to finish out. But the deal on offer was an equal split, due to any player could still win at this stage, so this gave us 550 each plus a 100 to the dealers.

My problem is, I know this is a common, but why do a deal after beating 50 odd players to get to this stage; I would rather play to win and or not play at all. I also want to gain more experience of playing heads up, which I find very exciting.

I’m just wandering what other players view are?. I know the deal that we agreed was very fair and the lads want to get home, but I just can’t understand why people are so quick to do deals.

Anyway, I had a great night and will be back soon.

ntlbell

I would have thought that all players have to agree to do the deal or play continues?

Did you state that you wanted to play on ?

Marq

If you wanted to play on you should have disagreed to the deal. There's no going back now, so it doesn't matter what anyone else on this forum says they would have done. I know it can be intimidating the first time you play there and the other lads want to make a deal, particularly when it's a fair enough deal for you, but you should stand your ground.

On an unrelated note: well done, that's still a great result for your first tournament in the Fitz.

Ollieboy

Sorry Ntlbell,

We all agreed to the deal, I was happy enough to play on, but the two other players want to get home, so I was happy enough to do a deal not be difficult.

I'm just wandering, why people are so quick to do deals, why not go on and win the game! It’s just a general comment.

Marq

Lots of reasons. I think the main one is that some people have no balls.

Sorry if this isn't helping much. i'm beginning to really hate deals.

Neviller

about your 9s , how pot committed was AQ when u came over top ? AQ 3 or 4 handed is v strong starting hand. It depends what he puts u on . Regarding split - all must agree to split but I would have agreed since id have been low stack of 3 tho one hand moves any 1 to lead.

smurph

I have made a decision that if (and thats a big feckin if) i get to the final table and a deal is mentioned im going to say no. You are right, play to win or don't play at all. Great result for your first trip to Fitz, they are a good crowd that go in there, and the dealers are friendly and very good at their job (for Marq and co).

jtsuited

sometimes i think that to continue on playing could end up with the money being divided on a very marginal coinflip situation. And often i've felt that win or lose, it would be a fair enough situation if these coinflips could be avoided by a nice comfortable deal that's fair to the players involved

Hitman Actual

You dont give the blinds when you were 3-handed, so it's hard to know if there was any play left in the game. Seeing as you were the shortest stack, assuming that the blinds were big, it was a good deal for you. But if there was any play left, and you were confident that you could move up to second or win the game, then obviously you refuse the deal.

Doing deals should be worked out the same as any other poker decision i.e. what is the expected value of the deal. I can see where Marq is coming from with the "no balls" comment, but sometimes doing a deal might make you more money.

Regarding the AQ/nines hand, without giving stack sizes and blinds at the time, it's hard to know if his call was correct.

Hitman Actual

Neviller wrote:

about your 9s , how pot committed was AQ when u came over top ? AQ 3 or 4 handed is v strong starting hand. It depends what he puts u on . Regarding split - all must agree to split but I would have agreed since id have been low stack of 3 tho one hand moves any 1 to lead.

A bit of advice... try to avoid using text-speak, or a lot of people wont bother reading your post, as it's too damn annoying!

Ollieboy

Neviller,

On the question of the 9's, he had called a raise of 12k, put he would have had plenty of chips left to play on. The flop was no good to him, so if I had called and than raised, I would have won the hand. So in future, I'll call. It’s a mistake I've a habit of doing. I felt he was only calling, because he wasn't sure if I would call and I re-raise, which shows real strength, plus I had shown really strong hands in the earlier hands. I felt heads up, was my best chance of getting money from the pot and not having 3 players playing the pot.

In general, deals are fine. But if you ever get the chance to win something big, you need to be able to play heads up live. It’s far too easy online to play heads up. I think it’s a sign of weakest to do a deal in your own ability and you’re playing poker to win. If you ask for a deal and a guy says no, you’re helping his game. In this situation, I felt that the two lads would have played together to push me out if I had turn the deal down, so it was a fair result. They both deserve to win anyway and were good players and nice guys.

The Fitz is a very nice place and the dealers are great. It’s so much better than playing in the pub games and far better value.

I was very happy with the result and was delight to win something on my first try, must not get hook now do. Had a big smile all the way home.

kincsem

If you want short-handed or heads-up play you can play in one table satellites. There are plenty of these from about 17:00 on the last Thursday of the month for tickets to the €270 game that night. Also many satellites before festival games (end of October in the Merrion).

Why do players not want to play to the finish? First point is that these players can play heads-up as well as you and probably better. They have played 5 hours x 30 hands/hour = about 150 hands to get to the real money. Why throw this away on a few coin-flip situations? It's not lack of bottle. It's experience.

You did a deal. You can't now say you wanted something else.

roryc

In fairness, sometimes deals can work out better for you. The time I split the fitz 270euro game, the deal worked out as all five of us getting just less than 2nd place (4K). With 5th being 1500, I was more than happy walking out with 4K in my first big tournament! If I had the same chance again I would definitely take the deal again. It was 6am and I was WAY more tired than I was letting on, and the standard of the other players was very high. All the chip stacks were even enough, and we had been playing for over an hour since the last player exited.

However, the same week, I was given the chance to split another game, but I declined as I fancied my chances of winning outright, which I did. Sometimes you have to stand your ground, although we all know this can be hard when EVERYONE else at the table wants a deal.....

ntlbell

kincsem wrote:

If you want short-handed or heads-up play you can play in one table satellites. There are plenty of these from about 17:00 on the last Thursday of the month for tickets to the €270 game that night. Also many satellites before festival games (end of October in the Merrion).

Why do players not want to play to the finish? First point is that these players can play heads-up as well as you and probably better. They have played 5 hours x 30 hands/hour = about 150 hands to get to the real money. Why throw this away on a few coin-flip situations? It's not lack of bottle. It's experience.

You did a deal. You can't now say you wanted something else.

I don't he's saying he wants something else, he's just commenting on deals in general and looking for peoples opinions on deals.

karlh

hey Ollie,

i was the shortstacked mug who went out in 4th, 2 to your left if i remember correctly.

the guy/clown who called with the AQ shouldn't have called the allin but in fairness he hadnt a clue what he was doing and considering his stack when he got to the final table, it was criminal that he didn't storm it. (i had a side bet that he wouldn't btw after seeing his play at an earlier table.)

i also have serious questions about the 2 massive stacks going up against eachother for an obvious coinflip with AK v 1010

anyways, well done and nice result!

Ollieboy

So your Karl, lol. I heard a bit about you from Nicky, if its the same person.

I agree with you on both hands Karl, I felt the two big stacks were nice and safe, but I take your point on the other player. When I went up aginst the big stack after, we played it a lot safer if you remember. Nice to meet you and we must have a chat next time.

Some people here seem to think I'm not happy about the deal. Thats not my point and I was glad to head home with money in my pocket. I'm asking the question why we are all so eager to do deals. Heads up is sometimes the best part of the game.

I read a thread here a couple of weeks ago, about top players not been used to heads up, due to all the deals people are doing in the card clubs. I was very happy with the deal, seen as I was shortstack, but felt I could have won. But thats not the point and is histoy and this isn't about greed or anything else. Just making a comment on the negative impact of deals.

I also think, if you asks for a deal and its turn down, your in real trouble, as this show's a sign of weakest to the other player. I dont think I would do a deal again as I went to win.

But thank you for everyones views.

P.S. Looking forward to my next visit to the Fitz.