Theory question

kennier

Didn't want to add this to the theory sticky as it isn't too difficult a question to those that know the answer....I think

So.... in the scale of C, the 7th Augmented would be b# and not c, right?

If yes, then I'm OK. If no, back to the drawing board!

Mongo

Errrmmmm not sure what you're trying to say.B#=C same note

kennier

That's what I thought but technically they are different. I think that on, say, a violin or other fretless instrument, there'd be a slight difference (open to correction on this bit though)

david

No just different names, same pitch

Eoin Madsen

kennier wrote:

That's what I thought but technically they are different. I think that on, say, a violin or other fretless instrument, there'd be a slight difference (open to correction on this bit though)

It would depend on whether you play with an equally tempered scale or not. If so, then there's no actual difference. If not, then every note in the scale could be different to the same notes in any and every different scale. I guess you either pick a reference scale as a master to define your fundamentals or you pick a reference note (presumably middle A) in common between keys. Either way, it gets really complicated really fast.

kennier

On the b# versus c thing, I suppose you could argue with this guy or perhaps this thread here....

Like I said, I thought b# & c were the same (and they are - on a fretted instrument) but not on an unfretted one. Now as to why they are not, dunno

So enough about this......b# or c?!

Eoin Madsen

Like I said, it depends on the kind of scale you're playing: equally tempered or defined otherwise. I think the instinct when playing an unfretted instrument is to play a more natural scale, which is not equally tempered.

kennier

OK, well my reasoning was that the 7th major on the C scale is b so to augment, you step up a half tone so you would annotate as b#. I know that this for us guitarists is the same as a c but I just wanted to get the question in the tutorial right

Jesus, this stuff gets pretty heavy...Major triad inversions...WFT?! :eek: Lads, if ye are doing this for the LC, good luck!

Quattroste

Dam you people who know things!!! I have a lot to learn

kennier

Quattroste wrote:

Dam you people who know things!!! I have a lot to learn

If I knew this stuff I wouldn't be asking

Check these 2 out:

Intervals

Triads

For god's sake, print them out, get a cup of coffee and use a notepad!

Antisocialiser

AFAIK the note is B# because you only write each note once in a scale regardless of its sharp or flat. So in the scale of C the root is C and the augmented 7th must be B#? I think on for example a cello these two notes sound slightly different or some **** like that.

68 lost souls

Well I know on a piano there's no B# Does that meen a piano is considered a fretted instrument. There are 14 semi tone Thats 8 notes times 2 minus B# and E#

kennier

I suppose it would be. On a violin you'd theoretically have an infinite number of intervals to chose between.

And b# was the correct tutorial answer...it's pretty pedantic I suppose but sure it's something to argue over a few pints anyway..could be a good musician-nerd pub quiz question

-=al=-

Im confused

kitfrog

Just for the sake of completeness... the fact that it might be played on a 'fretted' or 'non-fretted' instrument has no bearing on whether its B# or C natural. Only the key or scale to which the note belongs actually matters here as he did say 'in the scale of C'. In the key/scale of C, the 7th is B, so an Aug 7th must be B#. Calling it 'C' means its not an aug 7th, its an octave - totally different in music theory terms. The fact that B# and C might or might not sound the same when actually played is not a relevant factor in deciding this.

Also, they are almost always played as the same note, even on unfretted instruments like celli, etc. except in early music, where the musicians are making the difference more pronounced, either for purely stylistic reasons or to keep in tune with a non-equal tempered tuned harpsichord