Gym trying to take legal action against me

eth0_

I lived in Belfast 2 years ago and went into LA Fitness to have a look around, and they really pressured me to 'Join today' to avail of a cheap membership deal. I signed part of the contract but they didn't give me a copy as I didn't have my bank details on me, so I paid the joining fee with my credit card and said I would come back in with my bank details for the direct debit.

I then got told the contract I was working on had been lost, and therefore so was my job, so I would have to move back down south to live with my parents for a bit as I didn't want to stay in Belfast.

I rang LA Fitness and explained and she said that was fine. She never mentioned putting it in writing, or that I would be liable to pay anything else. I think I sent either an email or a letter as well, I can't remember which.
This was in November 2003.

Around October/November 2004 I got a letter from LA Fitness asking me to pay £450! I wrote back and explained I had cancelled, I had never given them my bank details so therefore the contract wasn't complete (I wasn't given a copy btw, they said they'd give me that when i'd come in with my bank details), and had NEVER used the gym. I said I would not be paying them a penny, and considered this must be an administrative error on their part.

I heard nothing more until I received a letter from them a few weeks ago to say I now owe them over £600 and they would consider legal action if I do not pay it.

Does anyone know what I should do?
Surely they cannot take legal action against me when I no longer live in the UK (they know this as I gave them my parents address when I replied to the first letter).

They never attempted to debit my credit card again, and I can't believe it took them a YEAR to send me a letter and another year almost to reply to the one I sent them last Oct/Nov!

Can anyone offer some advice?

BrianD

Put everthing in writing to them (do a timeline of events) and don't entertain any phone conversations. Most of the gyms have a swipe card system so they would have a good idea if you have been in or not.

eth0_

Did you read my post, I have written to them, they didn't reply at all, and then sent me a demand letter a year later (last month).

I did have a swipe card. I'm just googling them and it seems a lot of people have been tricked by them in this way

Raiser

All over the country Gyms are being built - most of them poky little rooms that could only cater for a handful of people - the owners then market it using photos of smiling, tanned bikini girls to about 10,000 people who think that these girls will work out attractively in front of them while they themselves eat Pringles and drink beer. These Gyms collect massive amounts of revenue, secure in the knowledge that only oddballs and weirdos actually go to the gym. Ah, its like they're printing money.

The only thing LA have over you is the threat of legal action - which is probably not going to hold water without them having a full contractual agreement from your good self - I'd say they're only trying their luck.

eth0_

My dad was in belfast today and he went into the citizens advice bureau and they told him they see this all the time but LA rarely back down and when he mentioned its nearly 2 years they said the statute of limitations is six years (I thought it was three and google confirms this)

lostexpectation

how much was the joining fee?

BrianD

eth0_ wrote:

Did you read my post, I have written to them, they didn't reply at all, and then sent me a demand letter a year later (last month).

I did have a swipe card. I'm just googling them and it seems a lot of people have been tricked by them in this way

I know that ... I was just suggesting to keep everything in writing - its always tempting to ring them and give them a piece of your mind. In many of these cases the person with the better paper work wins. The swipe card should come in useful - ask them how many times it has been used and then they might start seeing some sense.

eth0_

lostexpectation wrote:

how much was the joining fee?

I can't quite remember, I think around £50. It was nearly 2 years ago at this stage so i'm a bit fuzzy on the details

eth0_

BrianD wrote:

I know that ... I was just suggesting to keep everything in writing - its always tempting to ring them and give them a piece of your mind. In many of these cases the person with the better paper work wins. The swipe card should come in useful - ask them how many times it has been used and then they might start seeing some sense.

Swipe card is a good idea, will have to dig that out.

They're sending me a copy of the contract I signed. I would be surprised if they can even find the thing.

AFAIK the contract cannot be binding because it wasn't complete, there were no bank details filled in.

DublinWriter

eth0_ wrote:

They're sending me a copy of the contract I signed. I would be surprised if they can even find the thing.

A Contract, in it's broadest legal definition, can be verbal as well as written. The fact that you gave them your Debit Card details would constitute acceptance on your part.

Did you write to them informing them that you didn't want to be a member? If you're relying on the sole fact that you never gave them your bank account details later on as a indication of your unwillingness to join, then you might be on shaky ground.

For the relatively small amount, you could let them do the legwork and see how far they'll persue it. However, if you have a judgement placed against you it may affect your credit rating in the UK.

ctrl-alt-delete

DublinWriter wrote:

A Contract, in it's broadest legal definition, can be verbal as well as written.

a verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written upon.

i wouldnt say they have a case against you, as you say the contract was not complete and therefore not binding. id say its just scare tactics. dont entertain them and they will go away

homeOwner

AFAIK if you signed it then you had a contract, even if it wasnt complete. I think there is an element of "intent" with a contract too - ie your intention was to join the gym and you signed the contract.

But i also seem to remember hearing that there is also a cooling off period with contracts (I could be wrong about that!), since you never acually paid any monthly installments I think you could be ok, as it is evidence of you trying to cancel it within the month, even if you dont have a letter to prove it - ie your intent was to cancel it.

Maybe you can take them to small claims court for return of your membership fee

CCOVICH

A judgement in N.I. is not enforceable in RoI and vice versa AFAIK.

netwhizkid

Get onto your local politician and ask them for advice (no seriously) politicians are happy to give advise and usually are not too fussed about rising a stink for a constituent. You could of course launch a counter lawsuit against them for harassment and pressuring you and for breach of your consumer rights etc.

NEEDOFHELP

They can't touch you, once you did not sign anything to say you would be oweing to them in the future just ignore them, it would be the same if you had agreed to pay by direct debit the first payment is taken straight away you therefore use the gym for a month and cancel the payment through your bank there is nothing they can do - trust me I've been down that road

Ann Elk

Most contracts have a clause in them stating the law that will apply in the event of a dispute - they are enforceable across borders and necessarily so or international trade would fail.

To have a valid contract you need:
1) Offer - which was provided when you filled out the application,
2) Acceptance - which was provided when they agreed to accept you as a member.
3) Consideration - which was provided in the for of the deposit you paid.
4) More recently, courts have showed a willingness to move away from consideration towards 'intention to create legal relations' - which asgain was present as you intended to join the Gym.

You could argue that the contract became frustrated by an external event beyond your control - i.e. you losing your job in the U.K. which had the effect of rendering performance impossible.

But as far as the contract goes - It would pretty much seem valid on the details provided.

CCOVICH

Ann Elk wrote:

Most contracts have a clause in them stating the law that will apply in the event of a dispute - they are enforceable across borders and necessarily so or international trade would fail.

Can you expand on this-I presume that you mean that an action/judgement can be taken against a RoI citizen in N.I., but unless that person is in N.I. or is extradited to N.I., the judgement cannot be enforced? The chances of someone being extradited over unpaid gym fees is slim at best I would have thought.

Of course, if a judgement is registered against you, and you are caught in N.I. at some date in the future, I presume that you would be jailed until the judgement is settled.

Ann Elk

CCOVICH wrote:

Can you expand on this-I presume that you mean that an action/judgement can be taken against a RoI citizen in N.I., but unless that person is in N.I. or is extradited to N.I., the judgement cannot be enforced? The chances of someone being extradited over unpaid gym fees is slim at best I would have thought.

Of course, if a judgement is registered against you, and you are caught in N.I. at some date in the future, I presume that you would be jailed until the judgement is settled.

Hmmmmm - not sure about that to be honest. Whilst I realie that extradition will probably not happen over a £500.00 Gym fee, I think that the Irish courts would up hold any U.K. ruling on the issue and move to enforce any judgement handed down (much more likely to be to the detriment of the OP if he doesn't turn up for a hearing). Can you imagine the damage that would be done to Irish trade otherwise - 'Irish courts allow citizens to default on contractual obligations' It would have far reaching economic implications.

ballooba

Have you actually spoken to them about this? Perhaps I'm naiive, but perhaps this is a result of a clerical error.

Branoic

The fact that :

1) You "joined" in October / November 2003
2) You got your first letter in October/November 2004
3) You recently got the second letter

.........looks to me like its clerical. They probably do annual sweeps on all their accounts. At the time you signed the contract, your membership was probably entered in their system with no abnormalities. A clerical worker a year later would assume you owe them the years membership, and send you off the letter. Same again this year. Whoever sent off your letter this year probably knew nothing about any of the past events. I'd try getting them on the phone and explaining everything to them in great detail.

Gandhi

These chain gyms (at least in the States) are the biggest rip-off ever - and LA Fitness is one of the worst of them. I think Bally Total Fitness is worse - I don't know if we have them back home.

They all charge these big up-front "joining fees" that are forfeited once you leave, so people keep paying the monthly fee, even though they never actually go to the gym. Otherwise they will have to pay another joining fee to go back. The contracts are ridiculous. My wife left one gym (not LA Fitness) when she moved to another city, and had to produce documentation to prove she was moving to get out of the contract.

At my last job, four of the guys I worked with had gym memberships (two at LA Fitness). Only one of the four went more often than about once a month, if even that. The others used to joke about making their "monthly donation" to the gym. They never left though, as they would have to pay to up-front fee to join again, and there was always the "next week I'll start going regularly" resolution.

Those swipe card things came in when the gym owners lobbied the health insurance companies to pay for people's memberships, which the insurance companies agreed to as long as people could prove that they had visited the gym at least twice a week. This led to people going in for the so-called "Lazy Man's Workout" which consisted of a swiping your card, having a sauna and a shave, and going home.

Health insurance companies around the country were scratching their heads at how their member's health wasn't improving, when according to their gym membership and usage statistics, they should have had olympians on their hands.

Anyway, getting back on topic, the swipe card might not be much help if the contract does not specify anything about usage. I would get a solicitor to send a letter, demanding a copy of the contract if nothing else. Once you have that you can see what your options are. Best case scenario, once they see that you have a solicitor involved, they might just figure it is not worth the hassle to chase you from across the border and drop it.

ROVER

I am almost sure LA Fitness featured on the UK watchdog programme about a year ago

eth0_

ballooba wrote:

Have you actually spoken to them about this? Perhaps I'm naiive, but perhaps this is a result of a clerical error.

REALLY? Wow, I honestly NEVER thought of contacting them!

As it says in my original post, I have sent them letters, which have gone unanswered.

I have sent them a letter and two emails in the past 3 weeks demanding a copy of the contract, a list of times I have used the gym (which should be zero) and a breakdown of these extra costs (apparently I now owe them over £600) because they never gave any reason in their letter for this extra charge, and AFAIK that is illegal.

No response.

grumpytrousers

eth0_ wrote:

REALLY? Wow, I honestly NEVER thought of contacting them!

As it says in my original post, I have sent them letters, which have gone unanswered.

I have sent them a letter and two emails in the past 3 weeks demanding a copy of the contract, a list of times I have used the gym (which should be zero) and a breakdown of these extra costs (apparently I now owe them over £600) because they never gave any reason in their letter for this extra charge, and AFAIK that is illegal.

No response.

Few thoughts - dunno how much of this is of use to you

1) A judgement can go over national boundaries. Thus if you owe £500, that can be converted to a judgement for the equivalent in Euro. Not sure how much it costs a to do that - I thikn it may be for contracts of a more significant size.

2) You should write a calm, collected, measured letter to them. If you can track down any old emails you sent them (and the date stamp thereon) enclose them. The same goes for copies of any correspondence you sent by regular post. Read and re-read your letter so that it doesn't come accross as stroppy; simply outline the position in a narrative from A to B to C, citing the different communications you had with them. Question repeatedly their lack of communication for a year. "This letter/email/communication/request-for-contract went unanswered", etc. Send it by registered post. Sit back and let us know what happens...

best of luck with it - I think you're dealing with a gang of chancers who tend to get away with walking over people...