The situation of the Internet in Ireland.

Ethan Ross

I've been living in Canada away from home for a year and a half now, and I'm spoiled with my 2mb/s cable connection uncapped, untimed for 30 quid a month. The thought of going home to Ireland terrifies me in that sense. So anyway, back to the point at hand. Has the situation improved for you guys? Has Eircom still got the country by the balls? Please tell me theres at LEAST a nation-wide flat-rate untimed 56k service for gods sake. Just thinking about what Eircom did to me makes my blood boil.


Edit: I was browsing the Eircom site, I see they have a home service for broadband now? 40 euro startup fee and 30 a month for unlimited time & use. Is that how it is, or is there some sort of catch, like there always is?

dahamsta

Ethan Ross wrote:

Has the situation improved for you guys?

The situation has improved, but there are still major issues. Getting broadband is very much location dependant, although with the advent of better wireless services, coverage is improving in built-up areas. Rural connectivity is not being addressed properly by the Government.

Has Eircom still got the country by the balls?

Less so, but to a large extent, yes.

Please tell me theres at LEAST a nation-wide flat-rate untimed 56k service for gods sake.

No. Flat-rate, yes; untimed, no.

Edit: I was browsing the Eircom site, I see they have a home service for broadband now? 40 euro startup fee and 30 a month for unlimited time & use. Is that how it is, or is there some sort of catch, like there always is?

"Download allowances" in Ireland are quite low, and services can be hit and miss; providers seem unable to deal with demand generated by newer competitive - relatively speaking - products. Both end-users and service providers are very much held to ransom by the fact that a large majority of products are essentially resold Eircom products. This is caused by an incompetent inability of regulators and government to force Eircom towards Local Loop Unbundling.

Customer service in Ireland is generally quite bad too - not just in this market, but across the board - although it is improving. Irish ISPs and operators also seem to have major issues with back-office systems, which result in lots of billing and administrative issues.

zuma

Ethan Ross wrote:

I've been living in Canada away from home for a year and a half now, and I'm spoiled with my 2mb/s cable connection uncapped, untimed for 30 quid a month. The thought of going home to Ireland terrifies me in that sense. So anyway, back to the point at hand. Has the situation improved for you guys? Has Eircom still got the country by the balls? Please tell me theres at LEAST a nation-wide flat-rate untimed 56k service for gods sake. Just thinking about what Eircom did to me makes my blood boil.


Edit: I was browsing the Eircom site, I see they have a home service for broadband now? 40 euro startup fee and 30 a month for unlimited time & use. Is that how it is, or is there some sort of catch, like there always is?

You only had a 2Mbit line in Canada???

€50 a month will get you that from BT with 24GB CAP and Line Rental.
Without Line Rental it comes at €40

Thats DSL now...but Cable in Canada is hitting 8Mbit these days...but 2Mbit for $30CAN is only about €20 which is pretty good IMHO

Urban Weigl

Ethan Ross wrote:

Please tell me theres at LEAST a nation-wide flat-rate untimed 56k service for gods sake.

Not as such. We now have what Eircom calls a "partial flatrate" in their SEC filing. For €30 a month, you get 150 hours of pre-paid dialup access. This allotment gets deleted at the end of each month, so if you have any hours left over, they will be deleted (even though you paid for them). In addition, if you go over your 150 hour allotment, be prepared to pay some very hefty overage charges!

As far as broadband, 62% of telephone lines can now carry ADSL service. Please note that this is of lines, and not households or customers. The later may well be no more than 50% on a good day.

bk

The situation has greatly improved since you were away, however there are still problems.

They are still many people who can't get BB at all and it is still probably a bit more expensive then you are use to paying in Canada.

If you will be living in one of the cities then you should be able to get BB in one form or another.

In my opinion the best products in order of preference are:

- NTL Cable BB (1m = €25, 2m = €35, 3m = €45) available in parts of Dublin and all of Galway and Waterford, this would be equivalent to what you have in Canada.
- Smart BB 2m including line retanl for €35 (limited availability).
- BT Ireland (Esat) BB (DSL) 1m including line rental for €40 per month (€25 for first 4 months) or 2m including line rental for €50 per month (€35 for first 4 months) *
- If you can't get one of the wired services above then you should be able to get wireless BB from IBB or Digiweb.

* BT Ireland resell Eircom DSL so it is avialable everywhere that Eircom is, however BT is better value for money.

Urban Weigl

Yeah, it has improved, but many of the old problems are still with us. BT Ireland offer the best deal by far when you take their line rental + broadband bundle. Probably no more expensive than Canada, though you only get 1mb down and 128k up.

The main problem right now is availability, but at least the prices have come down.

bk

Please tell me theres at LEAST a nation-wide flat-rate untimed 56k service for gods sake.

UTV offer 180 hours for €24.95
BT Ireland offer an anytime business product for €35

seamus

As others have pointed out, the situation is much improved, but this is in spite of the major players in the telecoms industry, not because of them.

Basically, if you move to Dublin, your chances of getting broadband internet in some form or another are good to very good. There a few providers, providing access over different media. It can depend though. You'll have more trouble getting it into an old apartment block than a house, for example.
If you move to another major urban centre, such as Cork, your chances are on the OK side of good, but your options are reduced dramatically. The only service available may be DSL, and if your line can't handle it, tough cookie.
If you move outside of the major urban centres, your chances are slim to none.

paulm17781

Urban Weigl wrote:

Yeah, it has improved, but many of the old problems are still with us. BT Ireland offer the best deal by far when you take their line rental + broadband bundle. Probably no more expensive than Canada, though you only get 1mb down and 128k up.

The main problem right now is availability, but at least the prices have come down.

Smart are better than BT. just harder to get. If you can't get cable try Smart. Failing that try BT.

NutJob

Depends on your area with Smart also. Iv been on eircom connections with better ping than some smart. The wireless stuff is hit and miss.

Broadband in this country is a bloody minefield.

niallb

bk wrote:

UTV offer 180 hours for €24.95
BT Ireland offer an anytime business product for €35

BT Ireland offer 260 hours for €35.
Better, but not unmetered.

NiallB

zuma

260hours!!!

Thats over 8 hours a day...each and every day of the month.

While not Flat-Rate, it comes damn close.

Still at €35 a month its very very expensive when compared to almost anywhere else in the developed world!

Urban Weigl

zuma wrote:

260hours!!!

Thats over 8 hours a day...each and every day of the month.

While not Flat-Rate, it comes damn close.

Still at €35 a month its very very expensive when compared to almost anywhere else in the developed world!

If it is a business product, I would expect the price to be ex. VAT. Once you count that, you're going to be paying €42.35 a month for 260 hours.

zuma

Urban Weigl wrote:

If it is a business product, I would expect the price to be ex. VAT. Once you count that, you're going to be paying €42.35 a month for 260 hours.

Which appears to be what Digiweb want for their 3m/0.5m Metro product or their 2m/128k DSL.

You would nearly think that eircom wants to keep half or Ireland in the Dark Ages of internet access so they can scew more money out of us.
Just a thought........

niallb

zuma wrote:

260hours!!!

Thats over 8 hours a day...each and every day of the month.

While not Flat-Rate, it comes damn close.

Still at €35 a month its very very expensive when compared to almost anywhere else in the developed world!

It's a business product. Ever seen a business that works
more than 8 hours a day?
If you're working from home, might some other members of
the family like to use the internet in the evening?

It's a business product aimed at two markets:
1) Those who can't get a business broadband package
2) Those who can't get a home broadband package and work from home.

BT's offering is streets ahead of the others,
but that's not the point.
We either have flat rate dialup or we dont.

We don't.

NiallB

Ethan Ross

Yeah, yeah. I remember I had a lot of problems, a lot of them.(2,000 euro Eircom bills which I refused to pay out of protest, my phone got cut off, but who in Ireland doesn't have a mobile?) I might not use 8gb a month in upload or download, though 24/7 connectivity is an issue for me, I do require it to be able to deal with customers and so forth. I'm a graphics designer, and most of my work is through word of mouth over IM programms like MSN, AIM, ICQ & so on. But yeah, it seems like your lot is picking up. I still believe that theres a little more to it than Eircom simply tying up the lines. Eircom likes its manopoly status, and the government could just as easily say: "Right lads, time to open the ports here or we shut you down." I've always suspected that there was some dirty dealings going on, but don't mind me, I've always been like that.

So when I am at home, I'm in Wicklow, Ashford village 4 miles out of wicklow town, I hear Wicklow town as some nice broadband accessability, Digiweb, Eircom and a private Wireless service were set up there. The availability and cost effectiveness of Internet in Ireland needs to get up to speed right now, right fast. The DotCom boom is slowing down, and as it is, Ireland has participated but not without it coming out of their pockets to a disgusting degree. I know from personal experience that when I was at home, 56k and a capped time limit seriously stunted the growth of my home business before it got shut down by Eircoms bastard penny-pinching nature.

1huge1

well in dublin cork limerick and probably galway you will definetely get some type of broadband then after that some of the bigger towns will likely have it but if you will in a town under 8,000 your chances are fairly slim

cgarvey

1huge1 wrote:

well in dublin cork limerick and probably galway you will definetely get some type of broadband then after that some of the bigger towns will likely have it but if you will in a town under 8,000 your chances are fairly slim

Point of order, it's not definite, by any means, it's likely, but not definites. There are areas of Dublin city that can't get any BB (bar satellite).

.cg

Hannibal_12

My brother has recently bought himself a computer and I started to look around for a broadband deal for him. He wants to try and avoid line rental but the wireless offerings I found are either unavailable in his area (ripwave-which I hear is crap anyway) or coming in around €42 per month (Digiweb metro).€35 seems to be the absolute minimum in this country for anything half decent as far as DSL goes and couple that with line rental (most expensive in Europe, if I'm not mistaken) and its totally exorbitant. I have no doubt that it is keeping many from adopting broadband. 512kbps is now considered a meagre internet speed (at least on the world stage), there should be €20-€25 per month basic offering that includes line rental but alas I'm not holding my breath for that.

cgarvey

Hannibal_12 wrote:

My brother has recently bought himself a computer and I started to look around for a broadband deal for him. He wants to try and avoid line rental but the wireless offerings I found are either unavailable in his area (ripwave-which I hear is crap anyway) or coming in around €42 per month (Digiweb metro).€35 seems to be the absolute minimum in this country for anything half decent as far as DSL goes and couple that with line rental (most expensive in Europe, if I'm not mistaken) and its totally exorbitant. I have no doubt that it is keeping many from adopting broadband. 512kbps is now considered a meagre internet speed (at least on the world stage), there should be €20-€25 per month basic offering that includes line rental but alas I'm not holding my breath for that.

The counter argument for that is .. that without line rental, our BB charges aren't far behind other europeans. The line rental argument is a completely different one, and is absolutely rediculous, I'll agree.

If he's a light Internet user, then maybe one of the timed broadband packages might be a better deal for him. If he's a heavy user, then any of the starter BB DSL packages (with Smart being one of the best deals) will represent savings to him anyway.

There is room for improvement on DSL pricing (like €10/mo for always on 1Mb/18kb), but that's not the real issue here; it's the line rental that's the crazy pricing!

.cg

bk

cgarvey wrote:

If he's a light Internet user, then maybe one of the timed broadband packages might be a better deal for him. If he's a heavy user, then any of the starter BB DSL packages (with Smart being one of the best deals) will represent savings to him anyway.

Not really, from my previous calculations there is simply not a single person in the country who would save money on the timed products:

Eircom Time (€20) + Line Rental (€25) = €45

Compared to:
Smart 2m (Always on) + line rental = €35
BT Ireland 1m (Always on) + line rental = €40

Sorry I just want to make sure no one gets trapped by Eircoms crappy time product.

BTW I assume you have checked if your brother can get NTL cable BB, you don't need a phone line for that and it only costs €25 per month for 1m.

Mr_Man

So when I am at home, I'm in Wicklow, Ashford village 4 miles out of wicklow town, I hear Wicklow town as some nice broadband accessability, Digiweb, Eircom and a private Wireless service were set up there. The availability and cost effectiveness of Internet in Ireland needs to get up to speed right now, right fast. The DotCom boom is slowing down, and as it is, Ireland has participated but not without it coming out of their pockets to a disgusting degree. I know from personal experience that when I was at home, 56k and a capped time limit seriously stunted the growth of my home business before it got shut down by Eircoms bastard penny-pinching nature.

Ashford should have a good wireless service (e.g 1mb/512k @ 30:1 for €35) in the not too distant future. Check out this for more info.

Good Luck
M.

Ethan Ross

Oh nice, if Ashford had broadband, I might be tempted to come home.

SeanW

People in the Midlands might like to know that if €ircom's fcuk-ups mean they cant get DSL, Lastmile Broadband provides wireless BB - and they're on the warpath.

Hannibal_12

bk wrote:

Not really, from my previous calculations there is simply not a single person in the country who would save money on the timed products:

Eircom Time (€20) + Line Rental (€25) = €45

Compared to:
Smart 2m (Always on) + line rental = €35
BT Ireland 1m (Always on) + line rental = €40

Sorry I just want to make sure no one gets trapped by Eircoms crappy time product.

BTW I assume you have checked if your brother can get NTL cable BB, you don't need a phone line for that and it only costs €25 per month for 1m.

Exactly. When I started working exactly what it would cost him and taking into account the amount of time he would probably spend online I came to the conclusion that the smart package would probably be his best bet. Those "timed" BB packages are a false economy since its not that hard to go over a measly 20 hrs a month, especially with BB.
And oh yes I checked with NTL and was assured, as I was last year that "they are doing everything in their power to bring broadband to all their subscribers as soon as possible"- aka, next ice age.

Solair

seamus wrote:

As others have pointed out, the situation is much improved, but this is in spite of the major players in the telecoms industry, not because of them.

Basically, if you move to Dublin, your chances of getting broadband internet in some form or another are good to very good. There a few providers, providing access over different media. It can depend though. You'll have more trouble getting it into an old apartment block than a house, for example.
If you move to another major urban centre, such as Cork, your chances are on the OK side of good, but your options are reduced dramatically. The only service available may be DSL, and if your line can't handle it, tough cookie.
If you move outside of the major urban centres, your chances are slim to none.

Seamus,

Your options in Cork arn't reduced THAT much. I can't think of anything that's not available here that is available in Dublin, apart from NTL. DSL providers are largely the same, most (if not all) of the wireless providers are available. Chorus' cork cable network's not quite as broadband ready as NTL's in Dublin, however they are making progress and cablenet is rolling out bit-by-bit.

It's almost impossible to generalise about the state of chorus' network as the company formed out of a vast number of mergers. The former Cork Communications cable network that covers the city's not that bad. It's comprable to NTL's Dublin network. Sadly, Chorus ran out of cash and went into voluntary receivership etc and hadn't finished a lot of the planned upgrades. They layed a LOT of fiber, much of which has yet to be used. The plan is to upgrade the Cork network to hybrid fiber-coax which should mean decent UPC broadband widely available in the not too distant future.. (fingers crossed)

seamus

Solair wrote:

Seamus,

Your options in Cork arn't reduced THAT much. I can't think of anything that's not available here that is available in Dublin, apart from NTL. DSL providers are largely the same, most (if not all) of the wireless providers are available. Chorus' cork cable network's not quite as broadband ready as NTL's in Dublin, however they are making progress and cablenet is rolling out bit-by-bit.

It's almost impossible to generalise about the state of chorus' network as the company formed out of a vast number of mergers. The former Cork Communications cable network that covers the city's not that bad. It's comprable to NTL's Dublin network. Sadly, Chorus ran out of cash and went into voluntary receivership etc and hadn't finished a lot of the planned upgrades. They layed a LOT of fiber, much of which has yet to be used. The plan is to upgrade the Cork network to hybrid fiber-coax which should mean decent UPC broadband widely available in the not too distant future.. (fingers crossed)

I stand corrected.