Jobs in Chemistry

silenoz

Why is it so hard to get a job in the chemistry industry?

It seems that in the last few years there has been increasing discussion about the lack of secondary level students taking on science subjects, and how there may seem to fewer people going on to study science in third level.
But as a BSc. graduate in Chemistry and Microbiology I seem to be hitting brick walls when looking for a job in the industry, so why would you want to study science if it doesn't lead to a job? (For the fun of it? Trust me, not everyone finds science completely fun...) Over the last year I have applied to nearly 100 different companies and out of these have only gotten three interviews, out of less than 15 responses. I still have not been successful in obtaining a job.

Most responses state lack of experience as the reason for losing out on the position.
Experience. Experience. Experience?
How am I to gain any experience if I can't get a job in the first place? If I was to set up a private firm with water analysis facilities in my own shed would I am be in with a chance of getting a job?

I'm sorry for the stupid statements but it's no more stupid than the industry itself.
So... having said that and all... can anyone possibly tell me where I might look for a postion in a laboratory that genuinely will take on someone with a BSc. degree?

nesf

Have you thought about doing a post grad?

silenoz

I thought about postgrad... But to be honest I'd like to get out into the industry for a while. I need to start earning money too!

I was giving thought to a HDip. in Applied Chemistry, I may still apply for next years term, but I would like to have some industry experience before going back to college.

nesf

Most of the people I know who did Chemistry did a post grad straight afterwards. The same with the Physics people I know. I'm not sure if that's an indication of the job market or their wish to continue in education though. One guy did find work after his degree but it took him about 6 months to find a place tbh.

I'll put a post up in Work and see if any people working in the Chemisty industry are there. They might be able to help you better that myself.

el_tiddlero

do a post grad, dont get a job. the only chemistry jobs really are QC jobs.. they're boring... i know cos i have one... if you're really interested pm me and i'll tell you where to apply, the place i work are looking for one or two analsyts at the minute.

nitroboy

where abouts are you lookin for a job??

silenoz

nitroboy wrote:

where abouts are you lookin for a job??

I'm applying to companies in this country at the moment... I'm just trying anywhere that has vacancies. Places like Abbot, EcoLab, Boston Scientific and other smaller labs.

chem

Hi all,

I done a degree in Pharm science in sligo I.T. I tought i was doing the right thing at the time as i did think it would lead to a good job, with good pay etc...

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!! what i found out was money was rubbish for the first half lifetime, all shift work and still treated with the respect of a bad fart in a lift!

If you want to money get a trade. Im not joking. Almost any trade is making alot more then any collage grad. I know of directors who are on less then brickies on sites.

It all depends on how hard you want to work. Alot of trade people are pulling around €1000 a week, take home. And then you have the little tax free jobs in the evenings and weekend thats where the real money is to be made.

Look at it this way. I left collage 2 years ago. Im a painter subbing work. I earn 60K a year, have a house an car and can still go out at the weekends. If you dont believe me just as around. I dont regret going to collage, but i will never use it.

What i feel it boils down to is, do you want to make money or do you want people to think cus you work in a lab you must be on good money?

Just my 2 cents :cool:

silenoz

I wish someone could have told me this before I decided to go to college! In schools it seems there's all this pressure to go onto third level and do Science... Why in the name of God would you want to?

Every year when the leaving cert. results you get this big speil about the dwindling numbers of students taking Science subjects. I know research Scientists are always required worldwide but c'mon, the people who get to that level have to be dedicated to Science from an early age! Why push school leavers into taking Science subjects if they are just going to end up like the majority of college graduates who have a degree which is basically worthless.

I don't know, to be honest I'm quite pissed off with the whole situation...
AND I found out today I failed my final exams for the BSc. (Hons)!
So, in going against the whole idea of this forums: **** CHEMISTRY!!!

nesf

Eh, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss and throw away that many years of work based on the overly negative posts of chem, who is horribly over generalising. Bluntly the experience of one grad from pharm science in sligo I.T. would not cause me any concern. It being a very different degree to a BSc in Chemistry and Microbiology imho. There is work out there, and you can earn very good money from a science degree. Not instantly, but again as I've said many times before, few people walk out of their degree's into their life career. It takes time and experience on top of a degree to get into the "career for you" in most people's cases.

College isn't the end of your education, just the start of it. You will learn a lot more in the workplace, and tbh these days it's getting tough to find jobs that don't require you to have at least a primary degree.

You could also land a cushy job as a teacher if you so wished. Nice in that it's pretty much a job for life and very stable with a clear wage ladder and strong unions. It shouldn't be underestimated as a job.

You are also not limited to chemistry. There is nothing stopping you from taking on a conversion course or a H. Dip in another field to give you more variety. Or even just starting work in a different field. Many fields don't mind what your primary degree is, they just care if you want to do the job or not.


Also, you are not the first and definitely not the last person who will fail their final exams. It happens. The only advice I can give you is to get over it and start looking at how you are going to get through them. I'll assume that you're looking at repeating the year. Did you fail all your modules or just some? It does make a big difference. Plus an extra year could give you a chance to figure out what you wish to do and give you more focus. Plus a second chance could give you excellent results. This won't be the first time you're seeing the material and most people do better the second time around in exams.

Don't stress yourself and just relax. This isn't the end of the world, you are young and you have a lot of options ahead of you.

chump

Since when were you able to repeat your final year nesf?

Certainly not in TCD anyway...

You can't even repeat third year if you get below 40% (could be 35)...

And as for the value of Science degrees...
They are only of real value if you are really dedicated to science and wish to study further...

The only job grads seem to be able to get (in a scientific field) are monkey jobs paying near to minimum wage...

Either change field (like I did) OR do a PhD (hardly possible if you failed your finals)...

Chemists I reckon are in the best position to get good jobs after a PhD, particularly if they specialise in organic chemistry ...

nesf

Departments have been known to make exemptions for people in the past.

silenoz

Well you can repeat third / fourth year in NUI Galway and GMIT.
I failed two subjects, so I have to do the exams again next April....
Hopefully I won't have everything forgotten by then!

nesf

silenoz wrote:

Well you can repeat third / fourth year in NUI Galway and GMIT.
I failed two subjects, so I have to do the exams again next April....
Hopefully I won't have everything forgotten by then!

You should be fine, I've known quite a few people that have had to repeat exams over the years and nearly all of them do very well the second time around, if it's their second time seeing the material.

silenoz

The job hunt continues... I got a rejection letter today saying that I wouldn't even be considered for a job because I have no experience. I wish I could get an explanation about how I'm supposed to get experiece if no-one will give me a job! :mad:

Getting this elusive job in chemistry is a joke really. And even if I do get such a job some day, I'm being told that it will be crap.
Oh well, at least someone actually replied to an application for once even if it was to put me down. Better than nothing isn't it?
Can someone please offer me a job?

ArthurDent

Silenoz,

Did you do any work experience during your degree? If so make sure its very prominent in your CV - outline any analytical techniques you have experience of. Did you have any experience of working in GMP environment - did you do any in-house traning (if you did work experience).

What part of the country are you in? where are you willing to travel to for job?

Are you applying through agencies for these posts - if so make an appointment to go and talk to one of them and see what the problem is with your CV/experience - sometimes they will take the time to help you.

Are any of the guys that graduated with you working ina compnay you want to work in - if so chat with the let them know you're looking - often word of mouth and personal recommendation are the best ways of getting an interview.

Best of luck

AD

silenoz

ArthurDent wrote:

Did you do any work experience during your degree? If so make sure its very prominent in your CV

No... I applied for work experience while doing the course, but I had no luck back then either.

ArthurDent wrote:

outline any analytical techniques you have experience of

I have outlined all the different techniques I have experience with such as HPLC, GC, GC-MS, IR, UV/VIS, Karl Fischer, Atomic Absorption, SEM etc..

ArthurDent wrote:

What part of the country are you in? where are you willing to travel to for job?

I'm in Westmeath at the moment but I'm moving very soon, I don't even know here yet, so yes I am willing to move.

ArthurDent wrote:

Are you applying through agencies for these posts - if so make an appointment to go and talk to one of them and see what the problem is with your CV/experience - sometimes they will take the time to help you

I'm signed up with several agencies, two of them told me they liked my CV.

ArthurDent wrote:

Are any of the guys that graduated with you working in a company you want to work in...

I think at least one of them has a job, but I haven't really kept in touch with anyone. But I'll see who I can find.

Thanks for the advice anyway.

DietAnthrax

There are far too many people doing various science degrees in university. It's as simple as that.

The hype about not enough people getting into the sciences is entirely misplaced. It either originates from sheer ignorance about the job market, or from a more cynical motive. We would be far better off closing down many physics and chemistry faculties, and enlarging the Engineering and Computer Science ones instead.

As it stands, a Physics or Chemistry BSc is about as useless as an English or Philosophy one.

A physics or chemistry PhD, OTOH, is a very elaborate and drawn out training indeed for saying the words "do you want fries with that?"

nesf

DietAnthrax wrote:

There are far too many people doing various science degrees in university. It's as simple as that.

The hype about not enough people getting into the sciences is entirely misplaced. It either originates from sheer ignorance about the job market, or from a more cynical motive. We would be far better off closing down many physics and chemistry faculties, and enlarging the Engineering and Computer Science ones instead.

As it stands, a Physics or Chemistry BSc is about as useless as an English or Philosophy one.

A physics or chemistry PhD, OTOH, is a very elaborate and drawn out training indeed for saying the words "do you want fries with that?"

Expand on your points please, I'm interested in hearing about what you are basing your points on. Especially those regarding PhDs.

ArthurDent

DietAnthrax wrote:

There are far too many people doing various science degrees in university. It's as simple as that.

The hype about not enough people getting into the sciences is entirely misplaced. It either originates from sheer ignorance about the job market, or from a more cynical motive. We would be far better off closing down many physics and chemistry faculties, and enlarging the Engineering and Computer Science ones instead.

As it stands, a Physics or Chemistry BSc is about as useless as an English or Philosophy one.

Pharmaceutical industry Ireland:Currently thirteen (13) of the top fifteen (15) companies in the world have substantial operations in Ireland. In total there are eighty-three (83) facilities employing more than 17,000 people in Ireland.

Ireland is now one of the world’s largest exporters of Pharmaceuticals with €34 billion of intermediates and finished pharmaceuticals exported in 2002. 6 out of 10 and 12 out of 25 of the world’s top selling drugs are produced in Ireland including Lipitor and Zocor. Products are manufactured for global markets.
Source: http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=64

Lifesciences:Today, Ireland has over 170 companies employing 35,000 people in The Pharmaceutical/Chemical, Biopharmaceuticals, Medical Devices and Diagnostics sectors. Together these sectors generated €43 billion in exports in 2002.

Each of these sectors in Ireland is dominated by industry leaders with companies such as Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline, Takeda, Merck, Genzyme, Gilead, Medtronic, Boston Scientific, Abbott and many others having substantial operations in Ireland. Their satisfaction with Ireland has resulted in several examples of multiple investments by Life Sciences companies e.g. Abbott with six operations in Medical Devices, Diagnostics, Nutritionals and Pharmaceuticals; J&J with four operations in API and medical devices: Wyeth in Nutritionals, Veterinary Pharmaceuticals, Formulation and a Biopharmaceutical Drug Development/Substance/ Product facility, Boston Scientific Corporation with four facilities developing and making minimally invasive medical devices.

Source:http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=206

ICT:ICT
Ireland is one of the most attractive locations for investment in information and communications technology. Over 300 overseas ICT companies develop, market and manufacture a wide range of leading edge products in Ireland. 7 of the worlds Top 10 ICT companies have a substantial base in Ireland.

Overseas companies, including IBM, Intel, Hewlett Packard, Dell and Microsoft employ 45,000 in Ireland. In 2003 exports in this sector exceeded €21 billion, representing 26% of all exports.
Source:http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=56

That's approx 80,000 people employed in Ireland in these areas and you claim there is no job market for science grads in Physics and Chemistry!

DietAnthrax wrote:

A physics or chemistry PhD, OTOH, is a very elaborate and drawn out training indeed for saying the words "do you want fries with that?"

Have you a PhD in either of these areas? Practically everyone of my colleagues who completed PhDs in these areas have progressed in their careers since (either by going into industry or persuing an academic career), I'd be interested in hearing why you think they are so worthless.

silenoz

I could go for a lot longer about how hard it is to get a job in this industry which supposedly employs so many graduates... But I think in order to get a more productive response so I may gain something more substantial out of this topic, can I just ask a simple question to anyone who has a job in the industry?

How did you get a position in your employer's company?
If I can find out that then maybe I can do something similar in order to gain employment.

chump

silenoz for my POV, having just completed a SCI degree and knowing both chemists, phy/chem's, and physicists ...

Any1 who was worth their salt and wished to pursue a career in the sciences has gone on to further study. Be it a fresh degree, a masters or a phD.

If one gets a phD, after 3-4 years they can become a postdoc (~35k) or go into industry (~30+k) and climb the ladder from there...

I honestly do not think that having completed a primary degree like yours you will get anything other than a menial job in a science field, if that.

Now things like Biochem, I haven't a clue...
You could of course use your degree and aim for a non-science job but where the company seeks graduates ... the banks etc...

scarfacemj

I'm starting my 3rd year in TCD on Monday and I'm beginning to specialise in Chemistry but all this talk has me very apprehensive indeed! as if I wasn't worried enough

silenoz

Well I'm not here to put anyone off studying Chemistry. But my own experiences haven't been good. Maybe you will be more lucky.

I think you should consider doing chemistry for third year anyway, if you have an interest in the subject. If you like what you're doing then you'll have a lot more success than most people. Personally I've lost quite a bit of interest in Chemistry over the last few years...